The Gun Issue thread

[Mr Earl]

Great idea! More drugged up criminals with guns.

If you think about it....
If all drugs were decriminalized there would be less crime, as much of the crime out there is about getting money to buy drugs. You'd have to still deal with the addiction issues. But that takes the profit out of drug dealing and bring the addiction issue more out in the open.

Bear in mind that since the advent of the war on drugs nastier and more addictive drugs have hit the streets as a result. Virtually no one would use methamphetamine if pharmaceutical grade cocaine and pure white heroin was cheaply available from licensed sellers. You'd also have licensed cannabis outlets. I'm sure the big pharmaceutical companies would have a fit.
Keeping drugs illegal only serves to created a huge criminal underworld, an onerous and militarized law enforcement system, a corrupt and overburdened judiciary system and an untenable corrections system where drugs are easier to get than on the street.

[Morden]

Great idea! More drugged up criminals with guns.

If you think about it....
If all drugs were decriminalized there would be less crime, as much of the crime out there is about getting money to buy drugs. You'd have to still deal with the addiction issues. But that takes the profit out of drug dealing and bring the addiction issue more out in the open.

Bear in mind that since the advent of the war on drugs nastier and more addictive drugs have hit the streets as a result. Virtually no one would use methamphetamine if pharmaceutical grade cocaine and pure white heroin was cheaply available from licensed sellers. You'd also have licensed cannabis outlets. I'm sure the big pharmaceutical companies would have a fit.
Keeping drugs illegal only serves to created a huge criminal underworld, an onerous and militarized law enforcement system, a corrupt and overburdened judiciary system and an untenable corrections system where drugs are easier to get than on the street.

Which massacre in the US was connected with drugs?

[MrG]

Great idea! More drugged up criminals with guns.

If you think about it....
If all drugs were decriminalized there would be less crime, as much of the crime out there is about getting money to buy drugs. You'd have to still deal with the addiction issues. But that takes the profit out of drug dealing and bring the addiction issue more out in the open.

Bear in mind that since the advent of the war on drugs nastier and more addictive drugs have hit the streets as a result. Virtually no one would use methamphetamine if pharmaceutical grade cocaine and pure white heroin was cheaply available from licensed sellers. You'd also have licensed cannabis outlets. I'm sure the big pharmaceutical companies would have a fit.
Keeping drugs illegal only serves to created a huge criminal underworld, an onerous and militarized law enforcement system, a corrupt and overburdened judiciary system and an untenable corrections system where drugs are easier to get than on the street.

Which massacre in the US was connected with drugs?

It's Earl's latest detour around gun regulation, that's all.

If the war on drugs is increasing the number of guns in the streets, who has them but drug dealers. And if that's the problem, why aren't more movie theaters or elementary schools attacke by drug dealers. Nonsense.

Mabye he is suggesting that innocent housewives are gunning-up to protect themselves from drug dealers. It's just the kind of desperat posture the gun nuts come up with to defend the indefensable.

[Morden]

Great idea! More drugged up criminals with guns.

If you think about it....
If all drugs were decriminalized there would be less crime, as much of the crime out there is about getting money to buy drugs. You'd have to still deal with the addiction issues. But that takes the profit out of drug dealing and bring the addiction issue more out in the open.

Bear in mind that since the advent of the war on drugs nastier and more addictive drugs have hit the streets as a result. Virtually no one would use methamphetamine if pharmaceutical grade cocaine and pure white heroin was cheaply available from licensed sellers. You'd also have licensed cannabis outlets. I'm sure the big pharmaceutical companies would have a fit.
Keeping drugs illegal only serves to created a huge criminal underworld, an onerous and militarized law enforcement system, a corrupt and overburdened judiciary system and an untenable corrections system where drugs are easier to get than on the street.

Which massacre in the US was connected with drugs?

It's Earl's latest detour around gun regulation, that's all.

If the war on drugs is increasing the number of guns in the streets, who has them but drug dealers. And if that's the problem, why aren't more movie theaters or elementary schools attacke by drug dealers. Nonsense.

Mabye he is suggesting that innocent housewives are gunning-up to protect themselves from drug dealers. It's just the kind of desperat posture the gun nuts come up with to defend the indefensable.

I see. Thanks. In other words, if you don't have a valid argument, make up some irrelevant story in the hope of fooling people. Isn't that what the NRA does?

[Mr Earl]

It's really pretty sad to see how supposedly intelligent people have been totally brainwashed into thinking along the company line.

if you take the time to stop and think for yourself you might see how this idiotic war on drugs is indeed the pivotal issue around the gun control issue.

It's the addicts who are responsible for the petty crime to support their habits. The street dealers arm themselves to protect their territories. Profits from illegal drugs fund weapon sales to terrorists.

The government profits by keeping the populace in fear and thereby maintaining an ever increasing police and military presence, who are also big customers for the gun manufactures.
The lawyers, judiciary and corrections all profit from the drug crime. Then of course the arms manufactures profit magnificently by keeping the whole charade in play.

Do yourselves a favor and everyone around you to begin thinking for yourself and quit listening to government brainwashing rhetoric.
This is not just about Sandy Hook and the NRA for crying out loud!

[Mr Earl]

Then if you can think for yourself on that issue you might be able to think about regaining control over the food supply which is poisoning you and the media which brainwashes you. You cannot simply dismiss these issues as nonsense if you are remotely rational.

[MrG]

I see. Thanks. In other words, if you don't have a valid argument, make up some irrelevant story in the hope of fooling people.

That's seems to be the essential tactic of Rethuglicans and the grunt minions who post their excuses for selling guns to criminals and crazy people.

Isn't that what the NRA does?

No. The NRA side-steps the middleman voter and buys their politicians directly.

[Morden]

It's really pretty sad to see how supposedly intelligent people have been totally brainwashed into thinking along the company line.

if you take the time to stop and think for yourself you might see how this idiotic war on drugs is indeed the pivotal issue around the gun control issue.

It's the addicts who are responsible for the petty crime to support their habits. The street dealers arm themselves to protect their territories. Profits from illegal drugs fund weapon sales to terrorists.

The government profits by keeping the populace in fear and thereby maintaining an ever increasing police and military presence, who are also big customers for the gun manufactures.
The lawyers, judiciary and corrections all profit from the drug crime. Then of course the arms manufactures profit magnificently by keeping the whole charade in play.

Do yourselves a favor and everyone around you to begin thinking for yourself and quit listening to government brainwashing rhetoric.
This is not just about Sandy Hook and the NRA for crying out loud!

You must be using a 'substance' yourself.

I take it that your comment dismissing massacres of children and addicts as irrelevant means that you don't know of one such incident that involves illegal drugs.

[Morden]

Then if you can think for yourself on that issue you might be able to think about regaining control over the food supply which is poisoning you and the media which brainwashes you. You cannot simply dismiss these issues as nonsense if you are remotely rational.

Start a thread on those subjects, dear chap. This thread is about guns.

[Mr Earl]

Then if you can think for yourself on that issue you might be able to think about regaining control over the food supply which is poisoning you and the media which brainwashes you. You cannot simply dismiss these issues as nonsense if you are remotely rational.

Start a thread on those subjects, dear chap. This thread is about guns.

Indeed and not about your myopia on the subject.

if you think addressing the issue in a multifaceted manner somehow diminishes the the tragic death of those poor kids at Sandy Hook you are wrong.
The firearms issue is large and complex and requires you to think for yourself.
Try it out sometime. I challenge you to consider some of the points I've made rather than dismissing these issues as unrelated.
Sandy Hook was a rare occurrence yet symptomatic of a much larger problem which goes way beyond the so called "assault rifle".

[TonyBKK]

Sandy Hook was a rare occurrence yet symptomatic of a much larger problem which goes way beyond the so called "assault rifle".

Sorry Mr Earl, while I agree with you that the criminalization of drugs creates more crime (just look at America's failed attempt at Prohibition), the war on drugs has NO correlation with any of the mass shootings that have taken place in the US.

To say that the Sandy Hook massacre was a rare occurrence is disingenuous and ignores the 62 mass shootings that have taken place in the United States in the last 30 years.


Source: A Guide to Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones

[Morden]

Sandy Hook was a rare occurrence yet symptomatic of a much larger problem which goes way beyond the so called "assault rifle".

Sorry Mr Earl, while I agree with you that the criminalization of drugs creates more crime (just look at America's failed attempt at Prohibition), the war on drugs has NO correlation with any of the mass shootings that have taken place in the US.

To say that the Sandy Hook massacre was a rare occurrence is disingenuous and ignores the 62 mass shootings that have taken place in the United States in the last 30 years.


Source: A Guide to Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones

I didn't realise it was so bad! ow can a nation do nothing about that?

Mr. Earl, I don't deny that the issue of gun crime is 'multi-faceted' but you won't convince me that the answer is to legalise harmful drugs.

[Mr Earl]

Mr. Earl, I don't deny that the issue of gun crime is 'multi-faceted' but you won't convince me that the answer is to legalise harmful drugs.

There may not be a direct connection between the mass shootings.

The point I'm trying to make by addressing the failed war on drugs is how government attempts to control society result in making situations worse not better.

It doesn't require a giant leap of logic to see that if all drugs were decriminalized the demand for firearms would decrease.
If the issues of addiction and substance abuse were addressed honestly it might be more effective. The fact is the percentage of the population who are prone to addiction remains constant whether drugs are legal or illegal.
Facing that fact an providing social assistance for them on a community level would go a long towards minimizing the problem.
You simply cannot deny that the harder they try to crack down on drug use as a criminal issue the worse it has gotten. 30-40 years ago when cannabis, cocaine, heroin were relatively small social problems hardly anyone used crack or crystal meth, which are much more addictive dangerous and widely used today. Drug prohibition has failed on every level. That's how an honest person has to look at it.
Addiction is a social problem and needs to be addressed that way.

[TonyBKK]

Mr Earl, yes, the war on drugs is by and large a failure, but I still don't see the link with gun crime.

There are plenty of other countries where drugs are illegal yet per capita gun crimes in those countries is miniscule compared to the United States.

Just look at Canada or the UK for example...

[Mr Earl]

Mr Earl, yes, the war on drugs is by and large a failure, but I still don't see the link with gun crime.

There are plenty of other countries where drugs are illegal yet per capita gun crimes in those countries is miniscule compared to the United States.

Maybe not but I'm asking you to think for yourself and see how the war on drugs has created a vast criminal underworld and a resulting demand for firearms both legal and illegal.
It's worse in the USA because there are more guns and a mass media fueled aggressive and repressive culture.

[Boon Mee]

Your Feel Good Story of the day:

Eight year old boy who was suspended from school for making a gun-shaped Pop Tart get Lifetime Membership in the NRA.

According to the Baltimore Sun, Josh Welch was presented with a lifetime membership to the NRA by Maryland state House Minority Leader, Nicholaus R. Kipke (R-Md.) at a fundraiser for Anne Arundel County Republicans.
The boy received a standing ovation at the event as he was given the membership which is valued at $550.

Josh, who was seven at the time of the suspension, made national headlines in early March after Park Elementary School disciplined the boy for biting a Pop-Tart into the shape of a gun."

Way To Go Josh!

[TonyBKK]

The NRA Loves Their Guns. They Hate Your Kids


For shock and awe, you don’t need to go far beyond the Twilight Zone weirdness of National Rifle Association chief flunky Wayne LaPierre‘s press conference to present their profoundly stupid suggestions on how to respond to the slaughter at Sandy Hook elementary school. Among their suggestions were to put armed guards in every school, establish a national database of the mentally ill and criticizing Natural Born Killers, a 20-year old movie and violent videogames for putting bad thoughts in the kiddies.
A national database of the mentally ill? Sure thing. No way that could encroach on their Constitutional rights. Anybody wonder how many NRA members would show up on such a database?
As far as violent video games goes, let’s apply the NRA logic to it. Violent video games don’t kill. Gamers do.
As far as Wayne LaPierre’s suggestion to put an armed guard in every school it would cost over $5 billion to implement his crazy plan. I was under the impression this country is broke and can’t afford that kind of new spending.


Read more: The NRA Loves Their Guns. They Hate Your Kids | The Domino Theory by Jeff Winbush

[sabang]

Eight year old boy who was suspended from school for making a gun-shaped Pop Tart get Lifetime Membership in the NRA.

That says a lot more about the NRA and it;s adherents than it does about an eight year old boy.

[Boon Mee]

Eight year old boy who was suspended from school for making a gun-shaped Pop Tart get Lifetime Membership in the NRA.

That says a lot more about the NRA and it;s adherents than it does about an eight year old boy.

Please elaborate.

The NRA teaches gun safety and that's a good thing...

[TonyBKK]

The NRA is an enabler of killers and greedy gun manufacturers.

NRA president Wayne LaPierre is human garbage and cares about one thing, and one thing only: selling more guns.

To Wayne LaPierre and the NRA dead kids are just the collateral damage of American gun culture.

[TonyBKK]

NRA President Wayne LaPierre earns New York Daily News' "Craziest Man On Earth". (I hear Booners ran a close second)

[Boon Mee]

For more than 125 years the NRA has provided generations of Americans with programs focused on safety, education and responsibility.

The National Rifle Association of America is an American nonprofit organization founded in 1871 that promotes firearm ownership, as well as police training, firearm safety, marksmanship, hunting and self-defense training in the United States. Wikipedia

NRA

No doubt heavily stalked by the IRS

Must be a terrible burden to be such a Hater, eh tony?

...a fucked-up one at that.

[Morden]

For more than 125 years the NRA has provided generations of Americans with programs focused on safety, education and responsibility.

The National Rifle Association of America is an American nonprofit organization founded in 1871 that promotes firearm ownership, as well as police training, firearm safety, marksmanship, hunting and self-defense training in the United States. Wikipedia

NRA

No doubt heavily stalked by the IRS

Must be a terrible burden to be such a Hater, eh tony?

...a fucked-up one at that.

[RickThai]

It's really pretty sad to see how supposedly intelligent people have been totally brainwashed into thinking along the company line.

if you take the time to stop and think for yourself you might see how this idiotic war on drugs is indeed the pivotal issue around the gun control issue.

It's the addicts who are responsible for the petty crime to support their habits.

You mentioned "independent thinking", but your thinking (as stated above) seems to be pretty much "party line" legalize drugs propaganda.

Crime in the US existed long before recreational use of illicit drugs became a problem. People commit crimes for various reasons including:

a) Thrill of just taking what you want (both property and sex) as opposing to acquiring things legally
b) Too lazy or too dumb to work and earn a living
c) Random violence associated with being "high" on cocaine and meth.


Even if all the drugs were free (i.e. paid for by taxpayer dollars), stoners would still have to eat and pay living expenses. That is hard to do if you stay stoned out of your mind on crack or other drugs. So again, the only way they could get the things they wanted (excluding drugs) would be to steal or have taxpayers pay for everything they want.

So now, you have a large segment of people who are totally dependent upon working people (taxpayers) to pay for their living expenses and their drugs.

Doesn't seem very fair to the working people.

Of course, if everyone decided staying high was more fun than working, then the entire country would resort to total anarchy and "every man for himself".

Today's drugs are extremely addictive, and, for some, drugs can induce criminal behavior including rape and homicide.

Losing one's child to drug addiction is a very sad thing and a waste of that person's life.

Perhaps you need to think a little harder on your proposed "solution" to gun violence.

RickThai

[Mr Earl]

Crime in the US existed long before recreational use of illicit drugs became a problem. People commit crimes for various reasons including:

a) Thrill of just taking what you want (both property and sex) as opposing to acquiring things legally
b) Too lazy or too dumb to work and earn a living
c) Random violence associated with being "high" on cocaine and meth.

The massive heavily armed criminal cartel underworld did not exist before the draconian war on drugs.
Heavily militarized police forces didn't exist either.
Extremely addictive drugs like crack cocaine and crystal meth were not common as they are today.

The criminal justice and corrections systems were not overburdened and corrupt as they are today.
Prohibition was already proved to be a failure, as it is clearly a complete failure today.

Drug addiction is a problem, and needs to be addressed on a social level not criminal one.The number of addicts remains constant whether drugs are legal or not. In fact when drugs are legal it's been shown that drug use decreases not increases.
When society addresses addiction honestly it not so appealing as a recreation.

Illegal drug trade funds much of the terrorists activity around the world and in turn increases military presence. It's a never ending ever increasing circle of violence.

The so called solution has made the problem so much worse.