The Gun Issue thread

[Goodwill]

Hey That's good news.

Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

That's good, too.

Nearly all the decline in the firearm homicide rate took place in the 1990s; the downward trend stopped in 2001 and resumed slowly in 2007. The victimization rate for other gun crimes plunged in the 1990s, then declined more slowly from 2000 to 2008. The rate appears to be higher in 2011 compared with 2008, but the increase is not statistically significant. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall also dropped in the 1990s before declining more slowly from 2000 to 2010, then ticked up in 2011.

Looks like the drop was mostly in the 90s during Clinton's time. Still Not so bad. The last few years haven't been as good.

suicides now account for six-in-ten firearms deaths, the highest share since at least 1981.

Quite a few suicides.

Still, there are plenty of deaths a day enough to run a breaking news story on a death by bullets every 17 minutes.

New to the Issue? - Coalition to Stop Gun Violence




Personally BM, I don't have much of a problem with guns. People should be able to have them. But I do believe that the people that horde them should be investigated by the government as a lot of these people probably have mental issues. And parents who let their kids get injured with guns should lose their rights to own them. In fact, anyone who injures himself or another with a gun or uses a weapon in a reckless way should be banned for life from owning firearms. Despite the stats you posted there are way too many people killing and hurting others with guns.

[Morden]

Well, well. It appears that gun violence in America is not as bad as y'all have been led to believe. The left-wing Statist Media has does its level best to advance their agenda there is another slaughter just ready to happen any minute now!

Gun crime has plunged in the United States since its peak in the middle of the 1990s, including gun killings, assaults, robberies and other crimes, two new studies of government data show.
Yet few Americans are aware of the dramatic drop, and more than half believe gun crime has risen, according to a newly released survey by the Pew Research Center.


A prime reason gun crime has fallen is that over the same period it has become much easier for law-abiding citizens to carry firearms, as this animated map from Radical Gun Nuttery shows.

I think that the civilised world has come to accept that Americans like to be ready to shoot anyone in their way. Whether the figures go up or down is really of no consequence unless you happen to be one of them.

What would be of interest would be a trend chart for the massacres of innocent adults and children in the USA. Do you have access to such data, please?

[RickThai]

^

It's more a realization that the US has become a much more dangerous place because of violent criminals and gangbangers who do not hesitate to kill and that to rely upon the police or authorities to make you safe is total insanity.

The citizens of the US were traditionally self-reliant and in today's society they are re-learning that only they can protect themselves and their loved ones.

RickThai

[Morden]

^

It's more a realization that the US has become a much more dangerous place because of violent criminals and gangbangers who do not hesitate to kill and that to rely upon the police or authorities to make you safe is total insanity.

The citizens of the US were traditionally self-reliant and in today's society they are re-learning that only they can protect themselves and their loved ones.

RickThai

How sad that they should have to live that way.

[MrG]

^

It's more a realization that the US has become a much more dangerous place because of violent criminals and gangbangers who do not hesitate to kill and that to rely upon the police or authorities to make you safe is total insanity.

The citizens of the US were traditionally self-reliant and in today's society they are re-learning that only they can protect themselves and their loved ones.

RickThai

How sad that they should have to live that way.

There are plenty of guns out there now to "...protect ourselves..." as you call it. But it's not happening. Why is that? Because that's a gang-war inflated to a social level, to a way of life.

It's not living. That's social breakdown.

[Morden]

^

It's more a realization that the US has become a much more dangerous place because of violent criminals and gangbangers who do not hesitate to kill and that to rely upon the police or authorities to make you safe is total insanity.

The citizens of the US were traditionally self-reliant and in today's society they are re-learning that only they can protect themselves and their loved ones.

RickThai

How sad that they should have to live that way.

There are plenty of guns out there now to "...protect ourselves..." as you call it. But it's not happening. Why is that? Because that's a gang-war inflated to a social level, to a way of life.

It's not living. That's social breakdown.

Well put. It's a pity that more americans can't see that truth.

[RickThai]

^

It's more a realization that the US has become a much more dangerous place because of violent criminals and gangbangers who do not hesitate to kill and that to rely upon the police or authorities to make you safe is total insanity.

The citizens of the US were traditionally self-reliant and in today's society they are re-learning that only they can protect themselves and their loved ones.

RickThai

How sad that they should have to live that way.

I agree.

People in the US (and in most westernized countries) have no respect for "Rule of Law". Everyone from the POTUS on down, willingly commits crimes and thumbs their noses at society.

US Prisons are overfilled, but there are still millions of people in the US that should be in prison (illegal aliens for one such group). Most criminals have a long history of crimes (some serious) before they ever serve any serious jail time.

The police have already adjusted to today's society by having a "shoot 'em up mentality" and honest citizens need to be just as prepared IMO.

RickThai

[MrG]

People in the US (and in most westernized countries) have no respect for "Rule of Law". Everyone from the POTUS on down, willingly commits crimes and thumbs their noses at society.

The police have already adjusted to today's society by having a "shoot 'em up mentality" and honest citizens need to be just as prepared IMO.

Seems your rhetorical overkill about "....everyone form the POTUS on down..." has contradicted itself in the same rant. Pretty much cancels your argument out. Well done.

[sabang]

"shoot 'em up mentality" and honest citizens need to be just as prepared IMO.

Presumably assault weapons, high capacity automatic ammo clips and the legal ability for any felon to buy weapons anonymously and without backgraound checks is an important part of this arsenal of preparedness.

[Mr Earl]

"shoot 'em up mentality" and honest citizens need to be just as prepared IMO.

Presumably assault weapons, high capacity automatic ammo clips and the legal ability for any felon to buy weapons anonymously and without backgraound checks is an important part of this arsenal of preparedness.

Do you actually know what you're going on about?
It is already illegal for felons own or acquire firearms. BATF already requires a background check form for firearms purchaces. Most states already have waiting periods in effect already.
Automatic weapons (class3 weapons) have long been tightly restricted and registered.

[Morden]

"shoot 'em up mentality" and honest citizens need to be just as prepared IMO.

Presumably assault weapons, high capacity automatic ammo clips and the legal ability for any felon to buy weapons anonymously and without backgraound checks is an important part of this arsenal of preparedness.

Do you actually know what you're going on about?
It is already illegal for felons own or acquire firearms. BATF already requires a background check form for firearms purchaces. Most states already have waiting periods in effect already.
Automatic weapons (class3 weapons) have long been tightly restricted and registered.

Tell us about those gun fairs where, it has been said, anyone can buy a gun without a background check. Tell us about the illegal sale of guns to criminals in Mexico.

[MrG]

Tell us about the legal sales of weapons designed for and marketed to school kids. Yes, they're legal, but what does that have to do with protecting themselves, or anybody else. The asylum has been turned over to the patients.

[Boon Mee]

According to the left-wing zealots in politics, we're not supposed to judge all Muslims by the acts of a few "crazies". But the acts of a few American “crazies” is enough to judge all Americans who own guns.

Indeed...

[Rainfall]

Not Politically Correct in some circles but the graphs below say it all:

Fewer Guns, More Killings



Graphic: Fewer guns, more killings | Rare

Sorry Boon Mee, but your map seems flawed. How can you suggest that there are virtually no guns in Afghanistan, Somalia, Kongo, Sudan, Liberia, Columbia, Brazil etc.etc.etc.? Do you feed misinformation intentionally, or are you too dumb to recognize it?

[Morden]

According to the left-wing zealots in politics, we're not supposed to judge all Muslims by the acts of a few "crazies". But the acts of a few American “crazies” is enough to judge all Americans who own guns.

Indeed...

Who wrote that, apart from you.

[Morden]

Not Politically Correct in some circles but the graphs below say it all:

Fewer Guns, More Killings



Graphic: Fewer guns, more killings | Rare

Sorry Boon Mee, but your map seems flawed. How can you suggest that there are virtually no guns in Afghanistan, Somalia, Kongo, Sudan, Liberia, Columbia, Brazil etc.etc.etc.? Do you feed misinformation intentionally, or are you too dumb to recognize it?

Probably its taken from official information about only licensed guns.

[slackula]

Probably its taken from official information about only licensed guns.

That may well be true, but it doesn't explain the anomaly of the UK in the maps (low gun ownership, strict regulations and low homicide rates) unless the homicides map is only gun-related homicides but it doesn't say that.

[sabang]

According to the left-wing zealots in politics, we're not supposed to judge all Muslims by the acts of a few "crazies".

According to some right wing crazies, bombs don't kill people- Muslims do. Sell them more bombs I say, that's their second amendment right.

[Mr Earl]

Tell us about those gun fairs where, it has been said, anyone can buy a gun without a background check. Tell us about the illegal sale of guns to criminals in Mexico.

FFL's are required by all those selling at gun shows, as is the BATF form. Laws already exist which aren't being properly enforced.
If there is to be hysterical knee jerk reaction that's where it should be directed.

As far as guns to Mexico maybe Obama's pal Eric Holder could answer that one.

[Mr Earl]

Tell us about the legal sales of weapons designed for and marketed to school kids. Yes, they're legal, but what does that have to do with protecting themselves, or anybody else. The asylum has been turned over to the patients.

Are talking about toys? Perhaps playground games like cowboy's and indian's should be banned, but isn't that a larger social issue which ought to be addressed rather than blabbering away about new firearms legislation.
Perhaps addressing the social issues which contribute to desensitization the population to violence might be a better target.

Mind, violent crime rates in the UK are five times that of the USA. Obviously the problem there isn't firearms, but rather a social collapse.

[RickThai]

People in the US (and in most westernized countries) have no respect for "Rule of Law". Everyone from the POTUS on down, willingly commits crimes and thumbs their noses at society.

The police have already adjusted to today's society by having a "shoot 'em up mentality" and honest citizens need to be just as prepared IMO.

Seems your rhetorical overkill about "....everyone form the POTUS on down..." has contradicted itself in the same rant. Pretty much cancels your argument out. Well done.

Not seeing your point. My point was that a) due to a lack of respect for "Rule of Law", honest citizens are living in dangerous times, and b) the Police who interface the most with criminals and their crimes, have already adopted a "shoot first and repeatedly" mentality in order to deal with criminals, and that honest citizens need to do the same.

Many states now have "stand your ground " laws and "make my day" laws which make it legal for an honest citizen to use deadly force to protect themselves and their families.

What part of my "rant" did you not understand? If necessary, I will spell it out in even simpler phrases.

RickThai

[RickThai]

[QUOTE=Morden;2446360][QUOTE=Mr Earl;2446346]

.
Tell us about the illegal sale of guns to criminals in Mexico.

You would have to ask Obama's Attorney General about that one. Oops! That's right, he's not talking.

RickThai

[RickThai]

Tell us about the legal sales of weapons designed for and marketed to school kids. Yes, they're legal, but what does that have to do with protecting themselves, or anybody else. The asylum has been turned over to the patients.

Whatever substance you were taking when you posted this, I would strongly suggest you stop (or maybe it was the opposite and you stopped taking your meds?)

What school kid "weapons" are you talking about? Slingshots? (I'm not sure if even slingshots can be legally sold to school kids, nowadays.)

Talk about out in left field (pun).

RickThai

[Morden]

Tell us about those gun fairs where, it has been said, anyone can buy a gun without a background check. Tell us about the illegal sale of guns to criminals in Mexico.

FFL's are required by all those selling at gun shows, as is the BATF form. Laws already exist which aren't being properly enforced.
If there is to be hysterical knee jerk reaction that's where it should be directed.

As far as guns to Mexico maybe Obama's pal Eric Holder could answer that one.

The information frequently given is that private sales are not subject to background checks. That would mean buyers could avoid getting permits. Is that incorrect?

Is Eric Holder a member here? And did the illegal sale of guns to Mexicans begin at the behest of Obama?

[Morden]

Tell us about the legal sales of weapons designed for and marketed to school kids. Yes, they're legal, but what does that have to do with protecting themselves, or anybody else. The asylum has been turned over to the patients.

Are talking about toys? Perhaps playground games like cowboy's and indian's should be banned, but isn't that a larger social issue which ought to be addressed rather than blabbering away about new firearms legislation.
Perhaps addressing the social issues which contribute to desensitization the population to violence might be a better target.

Mind, violent crime rates in the UK are five times that of the USA. Obviously the problem there isn't firearms, but rather a social collapse.

Talking of social collapse, perhaps the massacre of young kids at school is a sign of that. Perhaps the sale of real guns to kids is a sign of a social sickness.