Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

Incidentally, the three stooges

The Three Stooges are you, Ohoh and Backspin. You three have posted more horseshit propaganda and outright falsehoods here on TD than anyone else by a long shot.

[sabang]

Sulking like a biatch.

[misskit]

Putin Accuses the West of Trying to Lure Russia Into War


BANGKOK (NNT) - Russian President Vladimir Putin has accused the West of deliberately creating a scenario designed to lure it into war and ignoring Russia’s security concerns over Ukraine.


In his first direct public comments on the crisis for nearly six weeks, a defiant Putin showed no sign of backing down from security demands that the West has called non-starters and a possible excuse to launch an invasion, which Moscow denies.


Putin also described a potential future scenario in which Ukraine was admitted to NATO and then attempted to recapture the Crimea peninsula, which Russia seized in 2014.


Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops on the Ukrainian border and Western countries say they fear Putin may be planning to invade.


Russia denies this but has said it could take unspecified military action unless its security demands are met. Western countries say any invasion would bring sanctions on Moscow.


Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said the Kremlin wants the West to respect a 1999 agreement that no country can strengthen its own security at the expense of others, which it considers at the heart of the crisis.


He raised the charter signed in Istanbul by members of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, which includes the United States and Canada, during a call with U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken.


Lavrov said Blinken accepted the need to discuss the matter further whilst a U.S. account of the call focused on the need for Moscow to pull back.


Putin Accuses the West of Trying to Lure Russia Into War

[OhOh]

Telephone conversation with President of France Emmanuel Macron

Further to this European discussion, European Security and de-escalations regarding Biden current favourite war of choice, more talks have been held.

Telephone conversation with President of France Emmanuel Macron

Vladimir Putin had another telephone conversation with President of the French Republic Emmanuel Macron.

January 31, 2022 21:35

"The presidents continued exchanging views on the situation around Ukraine and issues related to providing long-term legally binding security guarantees to Russia.

Vladimir Putin once again set forth the principled approaches to those issues.

The two leaders agreed to continue contacts by telephone and to promptly consider the possibility of meeting in person."

Telephone conversation with President of France Emmanuel Macron • President of Russia

Telephone conversation with Prime Minister of Italy Mario Draghi

Vladimir Putin had a telephone conversation with Prime Minister of the Italian Republic Mario Draghi.

February 1, 2022 15:20

"Vladimir Putin conveyed his congratulations and best wishes to President of the Italian Republic Sergio Mattarella who was re-elected to this office on January 29, 2022.

The President of Russia and Mario Draghi exchanged information on measures taken in both countries to counter the spread of the coronavirus.

In connection with the concern expressed by Mario Draghi about the developments related to Ukraine, Vladimir Putin gave an appraisal of actions taken by Kiev, which is evading compliance with its commitments regarding, primarily, political aspects of resolving the domestic conflict in Ukraine. The need for the Kiev authorities to take concrete steps in order to implement the Minsk Package of Measures was emphasised.

The development of long-term legally binding security guarantees for the Russian Federation was discussed in detail. Vladimir Putin outlined Russia’s key approaches regarding this matter, emphasising the importance of observing the fundamental principle of indivisibility of security, enshrined in the OSCE documents that were signed at the highest level.

Certain bilateral agenda items were touched upon, primarily the ones concerning cooperation in trade and economic exchanges and energy. Vladimir Putin reaffirmed Russia’s readiness to further ensure stable supplies of Russian natural gas to Italy, and also expressed satisfaction with the outcome of his recent meeting, held via videoconference, with leading Italian entrepreneurs.

The leaders agreed to continue the dialogue in the interests of advancing mutually beneficial Russian-Italian relations."

Telephone conversation with Prime Minister of Italy Mario Draghi • President of Russia

In addition there has now been published a read-out of the recent UNSC meeting, called for by NaGastan.

UNSC 8960th Meeting SC/14783

31 January 2022

Situation along Russian Federation-Ukraine Border Can Only Be Resolved through Diplomacy, Political Affairs Chief Tells Security Council

"Calling for de-escalation of tensions along the borders between Ukraine and the Russian Federation, the United Nations political affairs chief told the Security Council today that any military intervention by one country in another would be against international law and the Charter of the United Nations, as Moscow denied any intention of launching a war on that neighbouring State." ....

https://www.un.org/press/en/2022/sc14783.doc.htm

It is a full read out of the meeting, thus very long.

For those who wish to obtain the flavour of the speakers opinions at the meeting, I suggest it's a useful report to read.

Most of the meeting participants appear to have called for the same Russian discussion points, it has held since December 2021.

As opposed to the constant barrage of calls, as pointed out by the United Nations Political Affairs Chief, for another illegal war.

Another disastrous own goal from the increasingly isolated NaGastan and the UK warmongers/"elected" politicians.

[OhOh]

NATO: principle of collective irresponsibility

By Antanas Tubelis on Tuesday, February 1, 2022

"Being completely dependent on the United States, the leaders of the Baltic States are well aware that they are valuable to the United States only as a bridgehead on the borders of Russia. In the absence of a “Russian threat”, they lose their value. And this will cause a decrease in financial flows from the United States. This region will lose its relevance and the Baltic States will simply be forgotten.

The Baltic States regularly declare that it is necessary to strengthen cooperation with NATO allies and spend as much money as possible on defence. However, the money is being spent on building infrastructure for foreign troops.

But, the NATO allies in Western Europe do not want war at all. They are certainly not ready to fight for Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania.This is evidenced, for example, by the fact that Germany refused Estonia to send German-made weapons to Ukraine. This indicates that the largest NATO countries, such as Germany, are well aware that no one is going to attack anyone. It also shows that even the main NATO countries are not always ready to support their allies. Especially, if their actions threaten the security of Europe. Not everyone in NATO really believes in a threat to Ukraine, as well as a threat to the Baltic States.

In general, after the end of the “Cold War”, NATO lost the opportunity to fight with an enemy of equal strength, this affected the troops and command structures both in psychological and military aspects.Almost all European members of NATO have lost the ability to fight. Because of this, the principle of collective responsibility in the alliance (everyone protects everyone) has now become the principle of collective irresponsibility – no one wants to protect anyone. This led to a sharp decrease in discipline in NATO and to the actual legalization of the provision, according to which any member state of the bloc may not participate in the joint military operation of the alliance if it does not want to do so.

During NATO exercises, the focus is always on improving interoperability. However, no interoperability has been achieved so far. This shows the absolute incompetence of the military command of the Baltic States and NATO. We should not forget about the low qualification of military personnel at all levels in the Baltic countries, since the training that takes place in NATO training centers is mostly nominal and superficial.

NATO troops are currently deployed in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland, which should not provide real defence for these countries, but play the role of guarantors that the alliance will have to go to war in the event of Russian aggression against these states, since in this case the troops other NATO countries will also be attacked.

The Baltic States are supporters of the continued tension between NATO and Russia. But they do not realize that in this situation they are not independent political players. In case of a military conflict, the Baltic States will become an arena for a clash between two nuclear superpowers. And no matter how this clash ends, the Baltic States in any case will be affected."

NATO: principle of collective irresponsibility | The Baltic Word

[misskit]

US sending 3000 troops to Europe in 'coming days' amid Russia threat

US President Joe Biden is sending about 2,000 troops from Fort Bragg, North Carolina, to Poland and Germany this week and sending part of an infantry Stryker squadron of roughly 1,000 troops based in Germany to Romania, a senior administration official said Wednesday.
The military moves come amid stalled talks with Russia over its military buildup at Ukraine's borders.
And they underscore growing fears across Europe that Russian President Vladimir Putin is poised to invade Ukraine — and smaller NATO countries on the eastern flank worry they could be next.

The deployments to Eastern Europe, which were first reported by CNN, are a show of support to NATO allies feeling threatened by Russia's military moves near Ukraine, US officials said. The troops are expected to deploy "in the coming days," the officials said.
Pentagon press secretary John Kirby said the deployments include roughly 2,000 troops from the United States to Poland and Germany in the coming days. In addition, approximately 1,000 troops currently based in Germany are being deployed to Romania.
Kirby said that the moves were not permanents and emphasised, "These forces are not going to fight in Ukraine."

Biden had said recently that he intended to provide additional US forces to NATO allies in Eastern Europe as reassurance of an American commitment as treaty allies.
The Pentagon also has put about 8,500 US-based troops on higher alert for possible deployment to Europe as additional reassurance to allies, and officials have indicated the possibility that additional units could be placed on higher alert soon.

The US already has between 75,000 and 80,000 troops in Europe as permanently stationed forces and as part of regular rotations in place such as Poland.
Kirby said that the troops being deployed are separate and in addition to the 8,500 US troops that were placed on heightened alert last week that could be moved to Europe to support NATO's response force if it's activated.
The troops will operate on a bilateral basis with their host countries, since NATO has not yet activated a multinational response force.
Leaked documents
Washington and Moscow have been at loggerheads over Ukraine, with little sign of a diplomatic path forward. A Spanish newspaper on Wednesday reported that the United States could be willing to enter into an agreement with Russia to ease tensions over missile deployments in Europe if Moscow steps back from the brink in Ukraine.
The daily El Pais published two documents purported to be written replies from the United States and NATO last week to Russia's proposals for a new security arrangement in Europe. The US State department declined to comment on them.
In reference to the second document, NATO said that it never comments on "alleged leaks." But the text closely reflects statements made to the media last week by NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg as he laid out the 30-nation military organisation's position on Russia's demands.
The US document, marked as a confidential "non-paper," said that the United States would be willing to discuss in consultation with its NATO partners "a transparency mechanism to confirm the absences of Tomahawk cruise missiles at Aegis Ashore sites in Romania and Poland."

That would happen on condition that Russia "offers reciprocal transparency measures on two ground-launched missiles bases of our choosing in Russia."
Aegis Ashore is a system for defending against short- or intermediate-range missiles. Russia argues the site in Romania could be easily adapted to fire cruise missiles instead of interceptors, which ram their target and do not carry warheads, a claim that Washington has denied.
Russian President Vladimir Putin again mentioned the possibility Tuesday, saying that "there are MK-41 launchers there that could be configured for firing Tomahawks." He said they "are offensive systems that could reach thousands of kilometres into our territory. Isn't that a threat to us?"
The US document said Washington would have to consult with NATO allies on the potential offer, particularly with Romania and Poland.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov refused to comment on the leaked documents, saying only that "we didn't release anything." In comments to the state RIA Novosti news agency, Russia's Foreign Ministry also refused to confirm or deny that the documents published by El Pais were authentic.
Fears of a Russian invasion of Ukraine have mounted in recent months, after Putin deployed more than 100,000 troops to areas near Ukraine's borders, including in neighbouring Belarus, backed by tanks, artillery, helicopters and warplanes. Russian officials have insisted that Moscow has no intention of invading.
Notable in its absence from the leaked documents is any mention of Ukraine's hopes of joining NATO. Putin has demanded that NATO stop taking in any new members and withdraw its troops and equipment from countries that joined the alliance since 1997, almost half its ranks.


In the leaked document linked to NATO, the 30 allies said they "reaffirm our commitment to NATO's Open Door policy," without specifically mentioning Ukraine. Under Article 10 of NATO's founding treaty, other European countries may be invited in if they further the goals of European security.
At a NATO summit in 2008, NATO leaders said that they welcomed "Ukraine's and Georgia's Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO," adding: "We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO."
Russia invaded Georgia later that year, and in 2014 annexed Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula. Around 14,000 people have been killed in the conflict that still simmers in eastern Ukraine. Their membership plans have been on hold for years, although NATO continues to support them and promote reforms.

Ukraine-Russia tensions: US troops to be deployed to Europe in 'coming days'

[OhOh]

It appears that Bojo was too busy with a domestic issue to make the call.

British PM Johnson missed call with Putin – reports

Instead, the prime minister faced questions from MPs over allegations of lockdown-breaking parties in Downing Street.

1 Feb, 2022 10:08

"British prime minister Boris Johnson apparently missed a scheduled video call with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday because he was forced to defend his conduct to MPs following the publication of a long-awaited report into the so-called 'Partygate' scandal, UK media has claimed.

According to reports, Johnson had been due to speak with Putin at 4pm GMT, amid heightened tensions between Moscow and the West over Russia’s allegedly imminent plan to invade Ukraine. However, the talks are said to have been shelved so that the prime minister could appear before parliament.

Earlier the same day, senior civil servant Sue Gray handed over her findings from an inquiry into a series of alleged social gatherings in Downing Street during Covid-19 lockdowns, accusing Johnson and his team of “failures of leadership and judgement.” The prime minister apologized to lawmakers, but rejected calls for his resignation from the opposition.

A Downing Street source told The Telegraph that the call had been put on hold, and was unable to confirm when it would be rescheduled. However, later on Monday, the prime minister’s spokesman claimed there had been no official time set for the leaders to speak, but insisted they were still hoping to arrange an appointment for the call.

Johnson “had committed to come to the House to make an update” following the publication of the Gray report, the spokesman stated, adding that it was not unusual for the timing of calls between world leaders to change.

The opposition was quick to condemn the PM for missing his chance to speak with Putin at a time of perceived geopolitical crisis.

“Amid a dangerous crisis threatening peace in Europe, a vital diplomatic opportunity has been missed as Boris Johnson scrambles to hold on to his job,”

said Labour MP David Lammy, who serves as the Shadow Foreign Secretary.

Earlier on Monday, Johnson said he would warn Putin to “step back from the brink” over Ukraine. The Prime Minister is due to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in Kiev on Tuesday.

Amid the political turmoil in the UK, French President Emmanuel Macron held talks with the Russian leader on Monday for the second time in four days."

British PM Johnson missed call with Putin – reports — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union

[Backspin]

NATO: principle of collective irresponsibility

By Antanas Tubelis on Tuesday, February 1, 2022

"Being completely dependent on the United States, the leaders of the Baltic States are well aware that they are valuable to the United States only as a bridgehead on the borders of Russia. In the absence of a “Russian threat”, they lose their value.

One of the presidents of Estonia realized this, that they were being used just to batter Russia. So she called a meeting with Putin to settle things down.

[Troy]

The way some people pick up misinformation and run with it, before engaging gear, is quite astounding.

It turns any attempt at discussion into complete bollocks...

Shame really, but that's Skiddy for you.

[NamPikToot]

He's suffering from political dyslexia.

[Troy]

Can we do the same as with covid news, have a sensible thread and a nutters thread?

[Backspin]

The Three Stooges are you, Ohoh and Backspin. You three have posted more horseshit propaganda and outright falsehoods here on TD than anyone else by a long shot.

if Nato is no threat to Russia then why doesn't Nato and the US put it in writing ? A security guarantee. Thats all Russia is asking for. But nope. The Seppos and Limeys won't do that. They are proving without a doubt that Nato is a security threat to Russia.

[Switch]

if Nato is no threat to Russia then why doesn't Nato and the US put it in writing ? A security guarantee. Thats all Russia is asking for. But nope. The Seppos and Limeys won't do that. They are proving without a doubt that Nato is a security threat to Russia.

Why would NATO agree to anything that Putin wants?
All former WP countries have drifted naturally towards NATO and the EU, because they do not insist on limpet like addiction to a Russian tyrant.

[bsnub]

Can we do the same as with covid news, have a sensible thread and a nutters thread?

I already mentioned that, and it fell on deaf ears. Seems the mods are ok with the Three Stooges (backspit, ohoh, sabang) running rampant through these threads spewing propaganda nonsense.

Why would NATO agree to anything that Putin wants?

Doing so would be a fool's errand. Giving the little man anything he wants when he rattles his Sabre is pure madness. Stand firm and toe the line.

[harrybarracuda]

Can we do the same as with covid news, have a sensible thread and a nutters thread?

There's already a Hoohoo drivel thread, the mods should be tidying up.

[sabang]

Alastair Crooke, an ex MI6 spy and EU diplomat, asks the question- is this another Biden debacle??



Are we past ‘peak frenzy’? Quite possibly, but it will subside only slowly. It is too good a diversion from other difficulties.The sheer size and scope of the western information operations – insisting repeatedly on the imminence of a Russian invasion of Ukraine – has almost dwarfed the western effort mounted in the lead up to the second invasion of Iraq.

This latest info-war has been qualitatively different from that earlier episode however, in the way in which supposed intelligence titbits were constantly fed to the press in order to stiffen the narrative spine with a direct sense of being at the very cusp of war.

By last weekend, the U.S. mainstream was indeed in a war frenzy, and it seemed that the narrative was gaining a momentum and energy of its own – moving beyond Washington’s control and picking up support from across the U.S. bi-partisan spectrum.

..... By this week however, the lacunae inherent to the U.S. narrative were obvious: Biden, in his 7 December virtual summit with Putin, had threatened a ‘sanctions Armageddon’ for Russia. But those sanctions were not Biden’s to unilaterally wield (ultimately, they would have to be European sanctions).

And his team had had not got its sanctions ‘ducks’ properly lined up before the threat of catastrophically painful sanctions was uttered.

It has turned out – in the event – that the threatened sanctions would be far from apocalyptic. Europe vetoed any pre-emptive sanctioning of Russia. And the key pillars – Russia’s expulsion from SWIFT financial clearing system; Russian banks’ exclusion from exchanging roubles into Euros, and vice versa; and sanctions on Nordstream2 – were not acceptable to one or more European States.

In this Tuesday’s White House background briefing, the senior U.S. official quoted was still trying to make ‘bricks out of straw’m– suggesting that a ban on Russia selling sovereign debt on international markets would be highly damaging (when Russia sells its debt almost entirely on the domestic market). Overall, the official failed to convince.

Worse – from the Blinken perspective – the State Department and U.S. Treasury had been warning Blinken that the sanctions would hurt America’s European allies more than Russia, and that some mooted sanctions (such on Russian energy supplies), risked even triggering a global financial crisis.

.... Over the weekend came two further miscalculations (from the Anglo-axis):

Firstly, the UK breathlessly launched its midnight ‘scoop’ that Putin was planning a coup in Kiev, only to have its purported conspirators ridiculed – more in Ukraine than elsewhere. (Maybe Russian intelligence had ‘spoofed’ the Brits?).

And in parallel, the U.S. and Britain said they were beginning to evacuate personnel from their embassies in Kiev.

This latter statement seems to have been a step too far: It succeeded rather, in irritating the authorities in Kiev who called on Ukrainians to stay calm – and they went further, stating clearly that there was no evidence of a planned Russian invasion (contradicting Biden and Blinken).

The Europeans too, poured cold water on the Anglo fear tactics, saying that they had seen the same intelligence reports as London and Washington, and that they perceived no immediate threat to Ukraine. Their embassy staff pointedly, would stay put.

Ukraine: Another Biden Debacle? — Strategic Culture


snubby- "

spewing propaganda nonsense

".


The major question is what face can the anglo contingent save from this debacle?

" The Brussels meeting showcased western divergencies. Instead of unity, President Macron was proposing a new EU outreach to Moscow; Olaf Stolz was trailing his ‘fresh German start’ with Putin, and Mario Draghi was off to Moscow, also to meet with Putin.

All were looking to re-launch European relations with Russia. And finally, Macron (as EU President) is brokering his own solution to the Ukraine crisis in a Normandy format meeting, aimed at making progress (suspending certain draft laws in Kiev) to be the basis to nudge Kiev toward agreed negotiated autonomy for Donbass. (No doubt this initiative had been co-ordinated in advance with Putin).

The most salient aspect to Macron’s Minsk initiative however, is that the Americans are not invited."

[HermantheGerman]

if Nato is no threat to Russia then why doesn't Nato and the US put it in writing ? A security guarantee. Thats all Russia is asking for. But nope. The Seppos and Limeys won't do that. They are proving without a doubt that Nato is a security threat to Russia.

NATO is a security threat and Putin is locking up and poisoning opposition leaders.
Answer: Just lock up the whole country like the former U.S.S.R. (the oligarchs won't like it )

NATO is a security threat and Russia has the largest tactical nuclear weapons stockpile in the world.
Answer: All Russia needs is another 6,000 nuclear weapons (maybe no more room )

NATO is a security threat to Russia and the biggest gas station in Europe.
Answer: Just close the gas station (maybe they can sell more Sputnik vaccine )

Poor Russia...always being threatened

[bsnub]

spewing propaganda nonsense

Yes, you are still doing it. Your source...

The Strategic Culture Foundation is a Russian think tank that primarily publishes an online current affairs magazine of the same name. It is regarded as an arm of Russian state interests by the United States government.^[1]

According to a 2020 United States Department of State report, the Strategic Culture Foundation is directed by Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service, and is closely affiliated with Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.^[1]

It has been characterized as a conservative, pro-Russian propaganda website by U.S. media, but the publishers of the site are unlikely to endorse any of the specific political positions espoused in the publication.^[2][3]

One of the leading columnists is the American conservative journalist and former CIA officer Philip Giraldi, a conspiracy theorist who has contributed pieces on numerous political issues, flirting with Holocaust denial, and outspoken in his criticism of Zionism.

Your source can not even post on facebook...

The Washington Post reported in September 2020 that Facebook had banned a Russian disinformation network operated by the Strategic Culture Foundation -- a network that “helped spread conspiracy theories aimed at English-speaking audiences, including by fueling false rumors that the coronavirus was produced as a bioweapon and that a potential vaccine would include tracking technology.”^[5] The Post’s report stated that the Strategic Culture Foundation “also spread false information that Bill Gates, the tech executive and philanthropist, was leading efforts to create a vaccine with surveillance capabilities.” The Post’s report called the Strategic Culture Foundation “a phony think tank”.

In April 2021, the United States Department of the Treasury imposed sanctions on the Strategic Culture Foundation.

So...

spewing propaganda nonsense

You are doing it again.

[NamPikToot]

if Nato is no threat to Russia then why doesn't Nato and the US put it in writing ? A security guarantee. Thats all Russia is asking for. But nope.

Turn that around and what assurance can Putin give? none that would be worth the paper its written on as he is a criminal and a liar.

[Backspin]

[harrybarracuda]

He's suffering from political dyslexia.

He's suffering from being a fucking retard is what he is.

[harrybarracuda]

Turn that around and what assurance can Putin give? none that would be worth the paper its written on as he is a criminal and a liar.

Thief and Murderer. Don't forget Thief and Murderer.

[bsnub]

Thief and Murderer. Don't forget Thief and Murderer.

This is the more poignant observation.

[Backspin]

hahaha get this.

Germany kicks RT off the air in Germany.

A German broadcasting regulator announced yesterday that RT must stop broadcasting German-language programs in Germany as it "does not have the necessary broadcasting license." More background

So Russia retaliates in kind.

Russia has withdrawn the press credentials of all Deutsche Welle staff and is shutting down the organization's office in Moscow: http://p.dw.com/p/46T2z

Then, Germany has a little hissy fit because Russia retaliated.

DW Director General @dw_Limbourg says Russia's decision to shut down the broadcaster's office in Moscow "is a total overreaction." He pledged to "intensify" reporting on events happening within Russia. More here: http://p.dw.com/p/46TwP

Now watch. The Anglo media will report how the Russian government is coming down on "free speech" and pressuring journalists. Without revealing who started it.

[Backspin]

Turn that around and what assurance can Putin give? none that would be worth the paper its written on as he is a criminal and a liar.

Russia isn't overthrowing the US friendly regime in Mexico and flying weapons into the country. And threatening to take back Texas which the US annexed in 1845.