Ukraine war mega thread

[HermantheGerman]

28.01.2022

If it were only up to the global supply, we could replace Russian natural gas tomorrow," the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sunday newspaper (FAS) quoted Andreas Goldthau, energy expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations (DGAP). "The question is: how much do you want we pay for it?" In the event of a supply freeze, Europe would have three options: get more natural gas from other supplying countries via pipelines, import more liquefied natural gas (LNG) with tankers or tap the gas storage facilities.

But of course you are not as stupid as Skidmark and you do have a point about Germany being dependent on Russia. Putin can not be trusted!!!!

Spicy details: Ten percent of German gas storage facilities are operated by subsidiaries of the Kremlin-related Gazprom group. As Sebastian Bleschke confirms, they are just 17 percent full of gas, in contrast to 50 percent in the other storage facilities.

Better look out for your Teabag Donglers

The UK itself is suffering from gas shortages and record prices that have already bankrupted a number of smaller gas suppliers.

[HermantheGerman]

�� Ukrainian civilians in Kharkov, 2nd largest city in Ukraine when asked about taking arms against Russia: “No. I wouldn’t. None of the people I know would. No one of the civilian population of Ukraine would fight with the Russian brothers.”

https://twitter.com/colonelhomsi/status/1486769192464486400/video/1

Don’t forget that over 80% of the Ukrainian soldiers in Crimea just walked over to Russians and switched sides against Ukraine and got their ���� passports. Same thing would happen again ��

Spineless Twats like you

[HermantheGerman]

Radio France Internationale reported on Monday that French President Emmanuel Macron suggested an initiative along the lines of the Normandy format talks amid the reinvigorated US-NATO scaremongering rhetoric about Moscow's plans to "invade" Ukraine. Last week, Macron called upon EU member states to draw up proposals for a new security deal with Russia and hold a "frank dialogue" with Moscow."


French Politician: Puzzled by US Warmongering, France & Germany Trying to Avoid EU Militarisation

As for the "elected" NaGastan POTUS .....

I would not count on French or German intelligent. How many times has the U.S. warned them and gave them direct leads of scumbag muslim terrorists?
The French and the Germans wouldn't know if they are sitting on a bomb without U.S. help.

DON'T TRUST PUTIN !!!

[panama hat]

he still insisted Germany would not be affected if the taps were turned off.

Sadly you're lying your arse off again - which is par for the course for you. Show me where I said Germany wouldn't be affected . . . it realy must be something in the water you people were raised on.
Of course Germany would be affected, which is not to say they don't have contingency plans in place . . . are you really that much of a fucking idiot?

[NamPikToot]

Sadly you're lying your arse off again -

no i am not, you have changed your narrative as per usual - are you crossed with a goldfish?

I'll try without your usual invective

are you really that much of a fucking idiot?

you see you can't even believe what you say...... back to the same drab shit you trot out. Now when you are teaching the little yellow and brown fellas do you have moments like Peter Sellars in Doctor Strangelove.

[Backspin]

This is the epicenter of the conflict right here.

Sergei Lavrov reminded all that all OSCE member states, including the USA, that they all have signed the Istanbul Declaration of 1999and and the Astana Declaration of 2010. Both these documents refer to the indivisible nature of security and make the promise to abide by this principle. Thus, while these documents do uphold the right of every country to chose whatever alliances it wants to join, it prohibits the member states to do so at the cost of the security of any other signatory.


Now Russia will send a letter to each OSCE member state asking them why they are violating the Istanbul and Astana declarations.

[NamPikToot]

^ at what moment in time does a sovereign nation get to decide its own destiny or should just remain a pawn in the game?

[sabang]

Is everyone pissing about Nordstream 2 just so they can act all upset when Germany confirms it will be going ahead? They are not stoopid, neither are they your vassals.

[sabang]

The root cause of the Ukraine issue is that the US has promoted NATO's eastward expansion unrestrainedly, thus pushing Russia into a corner where there is no way to retreat. Washington is the culprit of the crisis. The US now hopes China will "persuade" Russia. In essence it wants China to urge Moscow to make a concession. The perfect plan Washington desires is that Moscow will cooperate unconditionally with the US' geopolitical ambitions. How absurd and ridiculous its logic is!

Washington is the root cause for many major regional crises aside from the Ukraine issue. The Korean Peninsula nuclear crisis, Iran nuclear issue, and the Afghan chaos caused by the US troops' withdrawal last year are the "hornet's nests" stirred up by the US. When the US messes up a region and finds it unable to clean up the situation, it hopes to draw other countries into paying for its mistakes. In recent years, Washington has expected China's participation in the resolution of almost all major international crises. On one hand, it has done its utmost to crack down on China, and on the other, it has had the temerity to seek China's help. This is the case this time. The US is carrying out strategic suppression on China in the Asia-Pacific region as it is doing with Russia while at the same time it hopes China will urge Russia to make a concession. It hopes to take all the benefits while doing bad things.

When handling regional conflicts, the biggest difference between China and the US is that China seeks peaceful solutions but the US seeks chaos.

Full Article- US itself should put out the fire it set in Ukraine: Global Times editorial - Global Times

China seeks peaceful solutions but the US seeks chaos.

Iraq, Afghanistan, the Balkans, Ukraine, Syria, Libya- and that's just the present. Hard to argue with that really.

[Backspin]

^ at what moment in time does a sovereign nation get to decide its own destiny or should just remain a pawn in the game?

Lets address that theoretically, and pretend that the US did not overthrow the elected Ukraine government by coup in 2014, in order to install a government that wanted to join Nato. And lets remember that Ukraine was independent from 1991 to 2014 and not any part of a Russian alliance or political block. Which was enshrined in the Ukraine constitution, that the US installed government ripped up. Ukraine votes to drop non-aligned status - BBC News

A country can join any military bloc it wants, as long as it doesn't infringe on the security of another nation. And an openly anti Russian military alliance infringes on the security of Russia and is unacceptable. Just as a joint Chinese and Russian military alliance in Cuba would be unacceptable to the US.

Ukraine is where Napoleons forces attacked Russia and where Nazi Germany's forces attacked Russia.

And Russia is even willing to bend on that if Nato would negotiate security guarantees that are signed into a treaty. Which is what Russia asked for in these talks. What answer did they get from the US and Nato ? Fuck and you.

[sabang]

I think the US is acting like a big, spoilt, petulant, squawling baby. But now it is finding that it's tantrums are having less effect, and it's bullying power is waning. We've heard it all too many times before, and are privy to the aftermath. It is no longer a unipolar world order auntie sam. Change the record, this one is scratched.

[sabang]

Talking of big, squawling military babies- you're right on time snubs. But seriously, I think the US has to 'play nicer' on the international stage, with both it's allies and self proclaimed antagonists. This isn't working, and doubling down is certainly not the answer. Advice from a friend...

[bsnub]

MOSCOW — The question is on everyone’s lips. Will President Vladimir Putin go to war against Ukraine? To judge by Russia’s propaganda machine, where media moguls are predicting a victory “in 48 hours,” the answer is an emphatic yes.

Yet the truth is more complex. While Mr. Putin undoubtedly regards Ukraine as little more than a Russian province, as he argued in a lengthy pseudo-historical treatise in July, it’s far from clear his aim was war. Outright conflict — as opposed to sudden swoops, covert operations or hybrid warfare — isn’t really Mr. Putin’s style. It’s probable that the troop buildup in November was an attempt to force the West to relinquish any claims over Ukraine. That would be a great P.R. victory at minimal cost.

But the West called his bluff. In the past week especially, the United States and NATO have taken a markedly sharper tone when discussing Russia — and have, more important, sent military hardware across Eastern Europe and put troops on standby. The message is clear: If Russia won’t de-escalate, then neither will the West.

Instead of trapping the United States, Mr. Putin has trapped himself. Caught between armed conflict and a humiliating retreat, he is now seeing his room for maneuver dwindling to nothing. He could invade and risk defeat, or he could pull back and have nothing to show for his brinkmanship. What happens next is unknown. But one thing is clear: Mr. Putin’s gamble has failed.

It may not seem obvious that the Kremlin, which has steadily amassed over 100,000 soldiers at the Ukrainian border since November, was not aiming at war. But the reasons to believe that Russia will pull back from an invasion are many. For one thing, Mr. Putin — whose instinctive cautiousness I’ve observed at close quarters for two decades — has a record of withdrawing at the first sign of real conflict. When Russian mercenaries were killed by U.S. troops in Syria in 2018, for example, he had the perfect opportunity to retaliate. Instead, Russia denied the slaughter ever took place.

Likewise, when Turkish drones struck down Russian mercenaries and equipment in Libya and Syria, there wasn’t a peep of acknowledgment either. In fact, it seems that Mr. Putin was so conscious of Turkey’s might that he didn’t dare to join forces with Armenia when, in September 2020, its territory was attacked by Turkish-backed Azerbaijan. And after triumphantly sending in his troops to Kazakhstan for an indefinite time, Mr. Putin started to withdraw them very soon after Russia’s foreign minister took a call from his Chinese counterpart.

Tellingly, Russia’s major successful military operations under Mr. Putin — the defeat of Georgia in 2008 and the annexation of Crimea in 2014 — happened when the West was looking the other way. In both cases, the world was caught unawares and Russia could complete its designs without the threat of armed international opposition. That is not the case now.

What’s more, there are no internal reasons for pursuing a war. Yes, Mr. Putin’s ratings are down and prices are up, but there’s no major domestic unrest and elections are two years away. Mr. Putin doesn’t require an expansionist escapade to either shore up his rule or distract the population from its troubles. War is a big red button that can be pushed only once. Right now, there’s no need.

And then there’s the main reason: Russia would not be assured of victory. The Ukrainian Army is much improved, having upscaled its equipment and preparations for a ground invasion, and the Russian troops deployed near the border are most likely insufficient to conquer the country. Because of its sheer bulk, the Russian Army might be able to advance: Quantity has a quality of its own, as Stalin reportedly said. But it would surely come at the cost of catastrophic losses in human life.

If he had little intention of invading, why did Mr. Putin raise the stakes so high? The answer is simple: Afghanistan. The West’s disastrous withdrawal from the country in August signaled the United States’ waning appetite for entanglement abroad. Emboldened, Mr. Putin clearly decided it was a good time to press his case for a revision of the post-Cold War order. Without the usual bargaining chips — no sound economy, no superior weapons, no fanatical followers — he fell back on unpredictability. The more irrational his behavior, went the thinking, the more likely the United States would accept his demands.

Those demands, published in mock-treaty form in December, were in many cases absurd. The call for NATO to withdraw its troops from members in Eastern Europe, for example, would never be met. The core request — that NATO deny membership to Ukraine — was silly in a different way. There was no chance of Ukraine becoming a member any time soon, ultimatum or not. But that was Mr. Putin’s point: By demanding something that was already happening, Mr. Putin aimed to claim a victory over the West.

But instead of submitting, the United States went the other way and began arming Ukraine. On Wednesday, it formally responded to Mr. Putin’s demands: While we don’t know the exact terms of the reply, Secretary of State Antony Blinken made clear that there will be no concessions. So Mr. Putin is stuck.

His options are limited. He can demand the West stop its military supplies. He might vent his frustrations on the opposition, all the while seeking to portray Russia as victim of the nefarious West. Or he could test the waters with a deniable provocation undertaken by supposedly private Russian citizens, those Mr. Putin once called “coal miners and tractor drivers.” That may be a small way to save face, but it could easily spill out of control. The risk of outright war is enormous.

There is, perhaps, one certainty to hold on to: Mr. Putin will never start a war he’s likely to lose. So the only way to ensure peace is to guarantee that in a military confrontation, Mr. Putin would never win.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/28/o...a-ukraine.html

[HermantheGerman]

US itself should put out the fire it set in Ukraine: Global Times editorial - Global Times

You forgot to post the best part

China has never kidnapped the collective interests of the region for its own interests, but instead, has always taken a responsible attitude and looked for a solution based on facts. China has never shied away from making mediation efforts within its capacity. It doesn't choose to act or not act simply because it has a good relationship or a competition with some other country. China has pursued an independent foreign policy and always respects other countries' independence. It makes active efforts to push relevant parties to return to the negotiating table and take care of all parties' security concerns to find the greatest common ground in complicated situations.

Did you not fall off the chair laughing when read your own link? They should deport you straight to red China.

Skidmark is just plain stupid, OhOh is trapped in a third World country, but you are sick for posting shit like this.

[sabang]

Aren't you getting sick of debacles too herman? While others quietly eat your lunch.

[sabang]

Hear hear:-


Ukraine president hits out at ‘panic’ over Russia as Putin says west has ignored his demands



The Ukrainian president has told the west to avoid creating “panic” over the build-up of Russian troops on his country’s border.

Playing down fears of a possible invasion, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said unnecessary alarm had led investors and foreign diplomats to pull out of Ukraine. “We don’t need this panic,” he said.

He also described the decision by the US, UK, Australia, Germany and Canada to withdraw some of their diplomats from Kyiv as a “mistake”. He said: “The captains should not leave the ship. I don’t think we have a Titanic here.”

Ukraine president hits out at ‘panic’ over Russia as Putin says west has ignored his demands


These histrionics are serving nobody any favours.

[OhOh]

at what moment in time does a sovereign nation get to decide its own destiny

When it has the ability to protect itself.

[OhOh]

OhOh is trapped in a third World country,

Living the dream, daily. Clean sandy beaches, Wats to pray at and a ripening harvests, not much to moan about under a soft cloudy sky.

I hope that you and your family, wherever you are, are likewise.

[OhOh]

Germany reveals chances of Ukraine joining NATO

Kiev’s accession into the US-led alliance isn’t even a subject for discussion, Berlin says

By Jonny Tickle

28 Jan, 2022 18:29

"NATO will not expand to include Ukraine in the near future, and therefore there is no point even discussing it when considering the future of security in Europe, German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said on Thursday.


Speaking to Germany’s Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, Berlin’s top diplomat revealed that, during her recent trip to Moscow, she spent a long time arguing over Ukraine with her Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov, and tried to convince him that talking about NATO expansion was a waste of time"

Continues at:

Germany reveals chances of Ukraine joining NATO — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union

[NamPikToot]

When it has the ability to protect itself.

Really, is that the definition of sovereign

[sabang]

Not if you are Palestine.

[bsnub]

Can anyone else see the conundrum.

Fuck off deeks. Hopefully the mods shit can your new nick asap.

[Troy]

Can anyone else see the conundrum.
Germany sent 50,000 helmets and are still going ahead with nortdstream, What a f--ing joke, and the US has exactly what to do with this?

You can either escalate the problem by sending in troops and equipment or you can try and calm things down. Both methods have been tried in history, the latter tends to give the moral upper hand.

Germany has the best relationship, with Russia within Europe, there is a reasonable flow of trade and workforce. (Where I live, there is a good sized Russian population). The country is best positioned, geographically and politically, to act as a mediator in the dispute.

No need for outright aggression, I'm sure a long term compromise can be made.

[harrybarracuda]

The root cause of the Ukraine issue is that the US has promoted NATO's eastward expansion unrestrainedly,

The root cause of the Ukraine issue is that Putin has annexed territory of a sovereign nation, fomented civil war in what's left and massed hundreds of thousands of troops on its border. You complete fucking idiot.

[sabang]

Go play with the dawgs boy. This is a mans thread.