Ukraine war mega thread

[sabang]

And of course I never lived in HK, was never in the investment biz, never lived in Thailand 12 years, wasn't born in the UK and then moved to Australia when I was 9, never attended RANC (how could I, if I was never Navy?) and presumably don't even live in Adelaide right now. I must be a Chinese Bot! There are several people on this forum who have met me in person dummkopf, they know exactly who I am. I'll be in Pattaya late April- if you want to meet up you're welcome, but bring a kilo of bratwurst and a signed photo of Angela Merkel by way of apology.


Of course virtually everyone who chooses to stay informed now knows that the 'impending Russian invasion' is like Saddams WMD and the Gulf of Tonkin incident- just absolute bullshit. MSM banging their little tin drums won't change that, and Putin is way smarter than to be duped into military action by the US- he knows exactly your game here. Germany too (well, except Herman of course). So, what next paid Liars? This makes sense-

As February 20th comes and goes without an invasion and predictions of false flag operations and Kremlin-backed coups fail to pan out, we will likely be seeing more such spin jobs from the western media claiming that those things did not happen because of measures that were taken by the US and its allies to prevent it. It may be used to score political points by claiming Biden “prevented” a Ukraine invasion with his willingness to stand up to Putin by pouring weapons into Ukraine and sending troops to Eastern Europe.

These claims will be built entirely on specious reasoning.

The Specious Reasoning Behind Claims That The US Thwarted An Invasion Of Ukraine – Caitlin Johnstone

But of course when the MSM comes out with it's next bullshit campaign on behalf of it's masters, you will swallow it whole just the same.


There is a sucker born every minute.

[bsnub]

You lied about being a navy officer Popeye!!!

I highly doubt that. I still like Sabang and he has been a poster around here from the beginning.

That said, he has changed over the course of his posting history, and he does post a lot of shit these days, for sure. He has been completely consumed with cheerleading for dictators, specifically Putin and Xi. Why? I have no idea, but he has become as blinkered and biased as any Trump supporter.

I looked into this pic he posted, and it can not be verified by any credible source.

[sabang]

I certainly became more cynical as the monstrosity of the Lies told leading up to the invasion of Iraq debacle became apparent. Nothing has changed since, except perhaps the MSM has become even more blatant in it's bullshit, because they know the great unwashed never hold them to account and are easily suckered. Sad, but true.

[bsnub]

I certainly became more cynical as the monstrosity of the Lies told leading up to the invasion of Iraq debacle became apparent.

No question that it was a massive case of wag the dog and was probably the biggest foreign policy blunder in American history (yes, even worse than the Vietnam War). The Iraq war is the root cause of almost all of the instability of the ME, including Syria. It is why Iran is now basically unchecked in the region and able to spread instability.

Nothing has changed since, except perhaps the MSM has become even more blatant in it's bullshit, because they know the great unwashed never hold them to account and are easily suckered.

That is why I always gather my information from a multitude of sources. There are still foundations of truth in much of the reporting of MSM. The truth is though that you have ridden the pendulum to the farthest extreme possible, and you post things that are as bad or worse than what is reported in the MSM.

[sabang]

People like Noam Chomsky, John Pilger, Alastair Crooke, the late Robert Fisk, Pepe Escobar, etc etc etc have been proven right repeatedly snubby- they are far from "the farthest extreme possible".

Thank goodness we have them, now that our once proud 'impartial media' has become so degraded and propagandised. It is rare to see good investigative journalism these days, and almost impossible if it runs counter to the prevailing western narrative. Just look at the bullshit you have been swallowing about the 'impending Russian invasion' for an example.

The above photo is not faked snubby, but it was not the result of a "massacre"- at least not in the conventional sense. It was the result of heavy, sustained and indiscriminate shelling by the Ukrainian army, and the far-Right Ukrainian militias in 2014. The bodies were buried in mass graves because without power, fuel, adequate nutrition at times, and it even being dangerous to step outside- well there was little else to be done. There are several such mass graves around Donetsk republic being exhumed, and the bodies given a decent 'Christian" burial.

[sabang]

Do you know what we really should be doing? We should be laughing at these people (well, halflings), mocking them. They hate that. Just like dear Caitlyn said- "The whole World should be laughing at America for pretending to care about Muslims in China". So in that vein-





News Corp Tips ‘Certain, Near-Certain, Virtually Certain, Dangerous But Ambiguous, Distinct Possibility’ Of Russian Invasion Of Ukraine

By New Matilda on February 5, 2022The Insider

Once upon a time, in a society not too different from our own, a journalists’ work was summated by the quality of their reporting, in particular its accuracy. That’s now how it works anymore. It’s all about the clicks, and this is how you get ‘em.

So apparently, Russian dictator, animal torturer and child molester Vladimir Putin is poised to invade Ukraine. And by apparently, we mean ‘absolutely, positively, definitely… Maybe.’ At least that’s the view over at War Hawks Headquarters… and by War Hawks Headquarters, we obviously mean Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation.

In a story published earlier this week, the headline on the home page of the news.com.au app reads ‘Prepare for impact: Russian war ‘certain’.



..... Fake news was only supposed to happen it the Trump era…? Either way, that ladies and gentleman, is how you kill two birds with one stone by baying for war while publishing clickbait.

News Corp Tips ‘Certain, Near-Certain, Virtually Certain, Dangerous But Ambiguous, Distinct Possibility’ Of Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - New Matilda



Of course, Pres Zelensky ended up telling Biden & Co to STFU, and that invasion was not imminent at all. The wisdom of a clown. Are you getting a Hint here?

[bsnub]

Just look at the bullshit you have been swallowing about the 'impending Russian invasion' for an example.

I was stationed in Germany during the Cold War. If the USSR suddenly added 130,000 troops and even more equipment to the NATO/Warsaw pact border, there would have been a massive response.

Russia is the aggressor in the conflict, not the other way around as you try to paint. They invaded Ukraine in 2014 and have been trying to destabilize it ever since.

It was the result of heavy, sustained and indiscriminate shelling by the Ukrainian army, and the far-Right Ukrainian militias in 2014.

Something that was done by both sides.

[sabang]

How dare people stand up for their own rights, language, culture and autonomy after a violent revolution that overthrows the elected government, e'hh snubby. Hey, didn't that happen in your country once?

[bsnub]

News Corp

..... Fake news was only supposed to happen it the Trump era…?

It is News corp, owned by trumpanzee Rubert Murdock. Of course, it is fake news, and you did not even bother to read the full article. It was pointing out that the White House never said that.

“This is not true, White House National Security Spokeswoman Emily Horne said.


“President Biden said that there is a distinct possibility that the Russians could invade Ukraine in February. He has previously said this publicly and we have been warning about this for months. Reports of anything more or different than that are completely false.”

Of course, Pres Zelensky ended up telling Biden & Co to STFU, and that invasion was not imminent at all.

No he didn't because Biden never said that. You numpty.

[sabang]

The Biden administration is humiliating itself snubby, and this is not good- his domestic reforms have been decimated, thanks to turncoats in the Democrat ranks (just like happened to obamacare), and on the international front his administration looks stupid and histrionic- but ultimately impotent. His domestic popularity ratings are parlous. I hoped for better.

I am aware that banging the war drums always lifts government popularity- it certainly saved Thatchers ass- but actually this means banging war drums and going to war yourself- not banging war drums and trying (unsuccesfully) to goad some other country into invading another country. Putin will not accede, and Biden is left looking stoopid.

[bsnub]

How dare people stand up for their own rights, language, culture and autonomy after a violent revolution that overthrows the elected government, e'hh snubby.

Elected and then committed massive graft and corruption, then tried to move the country closer to Russia and refused to sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement. Turning east to Russia was something that the overwhelming majority did not want.

During the Euromaidan hundreds of peaceful protesters were killed by Yanukovych's goon squad which ultimately led to his impeachment. He chose to flee the country the day before. On the same day, the parliament declared that Yanukovych was relieved of duty in a 328-to-0 vote.

[sabang]

Well they're smiling in Crimea. Dontcha just hate that. Get off your high horse America, and deal with the real world as it is. The unipolar world order has finished, and the USA is becoming a real concern this century. Grow up, and quit with the Denial. We don't want your constant wars and histrionics, we are thoroughly sick of it.

Well before the end of this century, your economy will be less than India, and less than half that of China. You are no longer boss cocky- but you do sit on the Board. You can even call yourself 'First among Equals' if you like. Stop being diverted by politicians bullshit, and look at what they are trying to deflect you from- ie your considerable and mounting problems at Home. Otherwise, there may not even be a USA by the end of this century- and no, I would not want to see that at all.

[harrybarracuda]

If Putin pulled his troops back, there would ensue a bloodbath in Donbass.

You mean the Donbass where Putin is arming and encouraging Russian separatists?

You complete fuckwit.

[bsnub]

Vladimir Putin will soon have to decide what to do with the huge number of soldiers he has sent to the border with Ukraine, a former CIA analyst has told Newsweek.The Russian president "has to be concerned about the cost of keeping Russian troops deployed in the field—not just financially, but in terms of military morale," said Nicholas Dujmovic.

"At some point, probably within three weeks, he'll have to decide to use the troops or end the deployment."

Military analysts say the presence of an estimated 130,000 troops—with some of the units coming from far-flung parts of Russia—presents a logistical and fiscal challenge that becomes trickier the longer they are there, The New York Times reported.

There are around 100 Russian battalion tactical groups (BTG) stretching across the border with Ukraine, in a deployment that has been building up for months.

As he seeks concessions from the West to lessen NATO's influence at Russia's borders, Putin may not want to lose face by sending personnel back to base before he can declare a diplomatic victory.

However, with the U.S. and the alliance clear that it will not give in to his demand to halt NATO expansion, launching an incursion will have a large financial and human cost.

"While an invasion would be more costly financially and in Russian lives, he might not care. No one knows what his intentions are," said Dujmovic, a former CIA analyst for Ukraine and now assistant professor of intelligence studies at the Catholic University of America.

"That's the perennial problem for intelligence. Capabilities are relatively easy to observe, while intentions are usually mysteries."

Putin continues to blame the U.S. and NATO for the knife-edge tensions over Ukraine, but he appeared to try to dial down the rhetoric last week when he said he hoped "dialogue will be continued" with Washington.

He also did not repeat the threat he made last month—to take "military-technical" measures if NATO did not comply with Russia's security demands.

President Joe Biden has issued strident warnings that a Russian invasion of Ukraine is imminent—which even Ukrainian leader Volodomyr Zelenskyy sought to downplay—but has also warned of "swift and severe consequences" if Putin approves a military incursion.

Meanwhile, the leaders of the Senate foreign relations committee has threatened "the mother of all sanctions."

These highlight macroeconomic measures, such as kicking Russia out of the international monetary system. But there are also calls for targeted measures on Putin's inner circle to be a focus—or at least for both sets of sanctions to work together.

Russian wealth is so entrenched in European cities such as London, however, that following the money of Putin's inner circle could be difficult.

Russia is also buffered by enormous central bank reserves of $640 billion, which would make quite manageable the $62 billion that it could cost the Kremlin to seize the remaining Donbass areas and from Mariupol to Odessa, Bloomberg has reported.

This might not be Putin's main concern, however.

"The current emphasis on Russian cost, whether from the deployment of military forces or potential costs from sanctions, downplays the importance of ideology and domestic politics in Russia," said Dennis A. Velazco Smith, co-director of the Project on International Peace and Security at William & Mary's Global Research Institute.

"Vladimir Putin is a Russian nationalist," he told Newsweek, a description that also applies to the president's base in the military, intelligence services and internal security services.

"He and they fear and resent the West's growing influence in Eastern Europe, which in their view looks like a form of Russian containment. Even worse, growing Western political and economic influence could potentially threaten the regime in Moscow, bringing back the chaos of the [Boris] Yeltsin years.

"Given that threat, I doubt that Putin will be too heavily influenced by the cost of a large military deployment."

As the U.S. and its allies continue to push the line that the cost of an invasion would be too high for Putin, the highest-ranking officer in the U.S. military, General Mark Milley, warned last week that the outcome of an invasion would be "horrific," with significant casualties.

"I don't think it is just a financial cost," said Sarah Mendelson, who served in the Obama administration as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Economic and Social Council. "Putin may not care about casualties but the Russian population does."

"It is not an exaggeration to say this could be incredibly bloody," she told Newsweek. Although the Russian army may have better resources, she said, "there is going to be house-to-house, hand-to-hand combat and they [the Kremlin] are not going to be able to hide bodies coming home."

Moscow was able to conceal the number of casualties it suffered during the Second Chechen War, in the Russian republic where the human rights group Memorial has faced persecution.

Mendelson said it was significant that Memorial, which would have been at the forefront of reporting on casualties in Ukraine, had been targeted recently by the Russian authorities.

"There is the financial cost and also this casualty issue," she said. "Maybe he is trying to dial back the rhetoric," however, "if you lose somebody and they are in the military, you can't hide it."

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-vlad...vasion-1676270

[sabang]

Oh, so it is not an option to just stay there for a while? It keeps a Ukrainian bloodbath in Donetsk off the table. That is just media spin. You can't put lipstick on a pig.

[harrybarracuda]

Oh, so it is not an option to just stay there for a while? It keeps a Ukrainian bloodbath in Donetsk off the table. That is just media spin. You can't put lipstick on a pig.

Oh FFS all of a sudden he's doing Ukraine a favour?

You really are a wittering fucking imbecile.

[sabang]

Fuck off you childish, embittered imbecile and go play in the doghouse.

[harrybarracuda]

Fuck off you childish, embittered imbecile and go play in the doghouse.

Frankly the doghouse is where most of your cretinous gibbering belongs.

I'm just surprised you expect anyone but your fellow fuckwits to take any of your shit seriously.

[bsnub]

Oh, so it is not an option to just stay there for a while?

There are 130k soldiers who are from other regions of Russia, currently bivouacked in tents in the middle of winter. Did you even read the article? Morale starts to slip in conditions like that.

[HuangLao]

The Biden administration is humiliating itself snubby, and this is not good- his domestic reforms have been decimated, thanks to turncoats in the Democrat ranks (just like happened to obamacare), and on the international front his administration looks stupid and histrionic- but ultimately impotent. His domestic popularity ratings are parlous. I hoped for better.

I am aware that banging the war drums always lifts government popularity- it certainly saved Thatchers ass- but actually this means banging war drums and going to war yourself- not banging war drums and trying (unsuccesfully) to goad some other country into invading another country. Putin will not accede, and Biden is left looking stoopid.

The perpetual romance of all things militarism and war hawking is what they're about.....and the only thing they have to offer.
And too many of the predictable circle join in to slobber in lust over such a prospect of advancing the ever expanding imperial state.
Terribly civilised.

[HermantheGerman]

Of course virtually everyone who chooses to stay informed now knows that the 'impending Russian invasion' is like Saddams WMD and the Gulf of Tonkin incident- just absolute bullshit.

Who told you that there are no WMD?

[sabang]

This report from the Rand Corporation- "Extending Russia" is a good find, for those with a triple digit IQ (stick to the doghouse 'arryboy). It was penned in 2019 and seems, well, rather prescient. Eerily so. I wonder why?


https://www.rand.org/content/dam/ran...66O-ilKzBcYtN8


A snippet. It was, of course, commissioned by the US government-

This report documents research and analysis conducted as part of theRAND Corporation research project Extending Russia: Competingfrom Advantageous Ground, sponsored by the Army QuadrennialDefense Review Office, Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-8,Headquarters, Department of the Army. The purpose of the projectwas to examine a range of possible means to extend Russia. By this, wemean nonviolent measures that could stress Russia’s military or economy or the regime’s political standing at home and abroad. The stepswe posit would not have either defense or deterrence as their primepurpose, although they might contribute to both. Rather, these stepsare conceived of as measures that would lead Russia to compete indomains or regions where the United States has a competitive advantage, causing Russia to overextend itself militarily or economically orcausing the regime to lose domestic and/or international prestige andinfluence. This report deliberately covers a wide range of military, economic, and political policy options. Its recommendations are directlyrelevant to everything from military modernization and force postureto economic sanctions and diplomacy; consequently, it speaks to allthe military services, other parts of U.S. government that have a handin foreign policy, and the broader foreign and defense policy audience.The Project Unique Identification Code (PUIC) for the projectthat produced this document is HQD177526.






It is hard not to conclude that the US is in serial decline, and like many a declining power before it has become a major threat to world peace and prosperity.

[bsnub]

It is hard not to conclude that the US is in serial decline, and like many a declining power has become a major threat to world peace and prosperity.

This is a thread about Ukraine and the threat that Russia poses, with 130k soldiers sitting on the boarder in tents in the middle of the Russian winter. They are not there for any "peacekeeping" mission, as you falsely implied. You continue to try to drag the thread off-topic by flipping the narrative to the US. The US did not start this crisis, it reacted to it. It has already made clear that it will not defend Ukraine in the even of an invasion.

[sabang]

Yes, just like previous threads about Iraq and the threat it poses, Afganistan, Libya, Syria etc. Outcome, always much the same- a bloody debacle. Don't you have some considerably more pressing domestic chores to attend to than constantly picking fights in other peoples backyard? I assure you, they are not panicking in Berlin or Kiev- it is only the anglos and their pet media poodles with the histrionics and war drums. Give it a rest, and start fixing up your own damn mess.

[OhOh]

There are 130k soldiers who are from other regions of Russia, currently bivouacked in tents

Post your proof. The verified kind, not just a NaGastan state employee telling the media this is the situation.



Not the cropped propaganda images that the NaGastani officials touted around Europe, that you posted previously on TD and were revealed as fake.

NaGastani "intelligence" allegation, what's new