Thread: Cairo Protests

It's pretty funny, the western governments and media have no idea how to report on a popular uprising that brings down a democracy...

Originally Posted by taxexile

hard to give even a passing fuck about these awful places and their politics when the uk itself is in turmoil with economic problems, waves of government and media inspired self hatred, islamification, uncontrolled immigration from shithole countries, violent crime, lack of resources, a collapsing health care system and police and fiscal corruption.

as with syria, let them get on with it however they see fit. all the west needs to do is ensure that their problems and the people that cause them are not allowed to take root in our countries.

army rule is probably best for them anyway. break a few heads, keep them in line, string up the troublemakers, democracy is too advanced a concept for them right now. tough love is what they need. aaaah the good old days.

Ah yes, but you should not say such things in polite society.

Originally Posted by Necron99

It's pretty funny, the western governments and media have no idea how to report on a popular uprising that brings down a democracy...

I don't get what was wrong with the last one. Mubarak regularly used to get 98% of the vote or something.

Originally Posted by Necron99

It's pretty funny, the western governments and media have no idea how to report on a popular uprising that brings down a democracy...

It's an "Islamic democracy" that our leaders and media cobbled together to promote regional peace and security.

I guess it might be a bit embarrassing when your creation - the one that you so proudly boasted about - implodes on the world stage.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Necron99

It's pretty funny, the western governments and media have no idea how to report on a popular uprising that brings down a democracy...

I don't get what was wrong with the last one. Mubarak regularly used to get 98% of the vote or something.

But he banned the MB, which pissed off the America-hating, white-hating, Jew-hating Socialist in the WH. Oh, and his Leftist cohorts.

Back to square one. Army back in the saddle. Now what? Another round of the same. Army will dissolve parliament, more constitutional wranglings and another election.

The Muslim Brotherhood will not be banned from participation. To win at the polls, the "opposition" must field a more attractive bunch of parliamentary candidates than in the first election. That is, ones not associated with Mubarak political machine. Number of votes the MB received in first election were a choice between MB and Mubarak associated candidates. Anything branded Mubarak naturally rejected.

Getting the right to vote is only the beginning of a long and difficult road to a mature functioning democracy. Egypt as well as other "new" democracies have a lot of lessons to learn yet so years of strife to follow. In the end, the form of democracy which evolves will by definition be determined by citizens not by "western" democratic norms.

Originally Posted by taxexile

hard to give even a passing fuck about these awful places and their politics...

Says it all.

Egypt was probably one of the worst places I had to work in...

I see Assad has already chimed in. Great opportunity to go and slaughter a few more "Muslim Brotherhood armed gangs"....

Syrian President Bashar al Assad has hailed the fall of "political Islam" in Egypt as he fights an armed opposition movement at home.

"What is happening in Egypt is the fall of what is known as political Islam," Assad said in an interview with Syrian state newspaper Ath Thawra, excerpts of which were posted on an official Facebook page.

"Anywhere in the world, whoever uses religion for political aims, or to benefit some and not others, will fall.

"You can't fool all the people all the time, let alone the Egyptian people who have a civilisation that is thousands of years old, and who espouse clear, Arab nationalist thought.

"After a whole year, reality has become clear to the Egyptian people. The Muslim Brotherhood's performance has helped them see the lies the (movement) used at the start of the popular revolution in Egypt."

Egyptian president, Mohamed Morsi - who was forced from power by a military coup just a year after being elected - had recently called for a "holy war" in Syria during a rally he attended with Sunni leaders.

The two-year uprising against the rule of Assad's family - which is largely secular but from the Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shia Islam - has largely pitted rebels from the country's Sunni majority against the regime.

There is long-standing animosity between Damascus and the Muslim Brotherhood, of which Mr Morsi is a leader, and membership of the group has been punishable by death in Syria since the 1980s.

Assad's late father, Hafez al Assad, used the military to crush an armed insurgency against his rule led by the Muslim Brotherhood, killing many thousands in the conservative city of Hama.

The city became a centre of the demonstrations against the younger Assad in March 2011.

The Syrian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood today plays a key role in the exiled opposition National Coalition, which is recognised by more than 100 states and organisations as legitimate representative of the Syrian people.

Syria's Assad Gloats Over Morsi's Fall

Whoever gets Egypt next had better watch out. These inconsiderate protesters have bruised the Messiah's ego, and he doesn't care how many people suffer to avenge this vile ingratitude for the freedoms he has bestowed upon the undeserving region.

Much goes for the rest of his upper level admin, bunch of shits that will have their halo polishing cronies give them yet another pass.

Originally Posted by Necron99

It's pretty funny, the western governments and media have no idea how to report on a popular uprising that brings down a democracy...

The usual TD crowd who come out saying 'all coups are bad' whenever the subject of Thai politics arises, are all pretty quiet at the moment as well.

So what happens when they have another election and another Islamist gets elected President then?

Originally Posted by Gerbil

The usual TD crowd who come out saying 'all coups are bad' whenever the subject of Thai politics arises, are all pretty quiet at the moment as well.

You've noticed that too have you?

Perhaps it's because this particular coup leaves a big chunk of egg on their Messiah's face...

But the people have short memories and can easily be soothed by printing another mountain of free cash.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

So what happens when they have another election and another Islamist gets elected President then?

Where's TonyBKK now?
Isn't it embarrassing when people toe to give themselves LESS freedom...


But seriously, I imagine the constitution is undergoing a massive rewrite. Probably the law books as well.

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

So what happens when they have another election and another Islamist gets elected President then?

Where's TonyBKK now?
Isn't it embarrassing when people toe to give themselves LESS freedom...


But seriously, I imagine the constitution is undergoing a massive rewrite. Probably the law books as well.

I must admit, having a large population of the country dissatisfied with the elected party and the Armed Forces stepping in to depose them.... reminds me of another Asian country, that does.

Originally Posted by leemo

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Necron99

It's pretty funny, the western governments and media have no idea how to report on a popular uprising that brings down a democracy...

I don't get what was wrong with the last one. Mubarak regularly used to get 98% of the vote or something.

But he banned the MB, which pissed off the America-hating, white-hating, Jew-hating Socialist in the WH. Oh, and his Leftist cohorts.

Not so I'm afraid. That was W and his merry gang of dimwitted rednecks.

Bush in 2003 "Lasting peace is gained as justice and democracy advance,” the former U.S. President declared. “By advancing freedom in the greater Middle East, we help end a cycle of dictatorship and radicalism that brings millions of people to misery and brings danger to our own people … In an arc of reform from Morocco to Jordan to Qatar, we are seeing elections and new protections for women and the stirrings of political pluralism. Many governments are realizing that theocracy and dictatorship do not lead to national greatness; they end in national ruin.” “We must shake off decades of failed policy in the Middle East,” he added. “In the past, [we] have been willing to make a bargain to tolerate oppression for the sake of stability. Long-standing ties often led us to overlook the faults of local elites. Yet this bargain did not bring stability or make us safe. It merely bought time while problems festered and ideologies of violence took hold … No longer should we think tyranny is benign because it is temporarily convenient. Tyranny is never benign to its victims and our great democracies should oppose tyranny wherever it is found."


Bush in 2008 "Too often in the Middle East, politics has consisted of one leader in power and the opposition in jail. America is deeply concerned about the plight of political prisoners in this region, as well as democratic activists who are intimidated or repressed, newspapers and civil society organizations that are shut down, and dissidents whose voices are stifled. The time has come for nations across the Middle East to abandon these practices, and treat their people with dignity and the respect they deserve. I call on all nations to release their prisoners of conscience, open up their political debate, and trust their people to chart their future."

Mmmh. Strange. The speeches don't contain Bushisms.

USA

Under
Satanic
Administration.

How do I send a green to a photo of a real person?

Originally Posted by Necron99

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

So what happens when they have another election and another Islamist gets elected President then?

Where's TonyBKK now?
Isn't it embarrassing when people toe to give themselves LESS freedom...


But seriously, I imagine the constitution is undergoing a massive rewrite. Probably the law books as well.

Morsi made no secret of his constitution, with Sharia as its template. The new guy will have to come up with a civilised template. Oh, and Obama, who was a principal backer of the first "revolution" and enthusiastically endorsed Morsi as president, seems real pissed off and has already directed US govn agencies to “review” the aid they are giving or have earmarked for Egypt.

Obama launches 'review' of aid to Egypt in wake of military coup - The Hill's Global Affairs

Note that the Messiah made no similar statement when Mubarak was ousted. His position keeps the MB alive and in contention, since they still enjoy broad popular support. Also important, they can use his statement (see link) as a knife to the throat of Egypt, especially if there is an extended vacuum, demanding that they be restored to power as the only means to ensure continued American aid to prevent the economy from utter collapse.

In other words, expect Obama to NOT betray this particular friend, and use his remaining term to assist the MB both in Egypt and its proxies in Europe and the US. His ego is hurt, he has a lot of money and power at his disposal, the calendar pages are turning and his buddies are on the back foot, so expect him to be unpredictable, or brilliant and innovative in libspeak.

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by leemo

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Necron99

It's pretty funny, the western governments and media have no idea how to report on a popular uprising that brings down a democracy...

I don't get what was wrong with the last one. Mubarak regularly used to get 98% of the vote or something.

But he banned the MB, which pissed off the America-hating, white-hating, Jew-hating Socialist in the WH. Oh, and his Leftist cohorts.

Not so I'm afraid. That was W and his merry gang of dimwitted rednecks.

Bush in 2003 "Lasting peace is gained as justice and democracy advance,” the former U.S. President declared. “By advancing freedom in the greater Middle East, we help end a cycle of dictatorship and radicalism that brings millions of people to misery and brings danger to our own people … In an arc of reform from Morocco to Jordan to Qatar, we are seeing elections and new protections for women and the stirrings of political pluralism. Many governments are realizing that theocracy and dictatorship do not lead to national greatness; they end in national ruin.” “We must shake off decades of failed policy in the Middle East,” he added. “In the past, [we] have been willing to make a bargain to tolerate oppression for the sake of stability. Long-standing ties often led us to overlook the faults of local elites. Yet this bargain did not bring stability or make us safe. It merely bought time while problems festered and ideologies of violence took hold … No longer should we think tyranny is benign because it is temporarily convenient. Tyranny is never benign to its victims and our great democracies should oppose tyranny wherever it is found."


Bush in 2008 "Too often in the Middle East, politics has consisted of one leader in power and the opposition in jail. America is deeply concerned about the plight of political prisoners in this region, as well as democratic activists who are intimidated or repressed, newspapers and civil society organizations that are shut down, and dissidents whose voices are stifled. The time has come for nations across the Middle East to abandon these practices, and treat their people with dignity and the respect they deserve. I call on all nations to release their prisoners of conscience, open up their political debate, and trust their people to chart their future."

Mmmh. Strange. The speeches don't contain Bushisms.

Try and get something right, after 800 posts the odds should be in your favour.

The MB has never been liked by Egyptian leaders, and Arabs tend to know their own people far better than naive and egotistical Western leaders do or would like to think they do. But they were tolerated, until they tried to assassinate Nasser, at which time they went to ground and successive governments knew enough about this evil and dangerously well organised group to keep them there. From then to recently, they enjoyed massive expansion throughout snoozing Europe and the US, but have stayed in the shadows through most of the Arab/Muslim world, including Saudi and the Gulf.

Anything Bush spewed becomes academic, but if you need useful ammo (hopefully not to blow off your complete leg) check out Carter's thoughts on the MB, Israel, and an idiot's eye view of the perfect world.

Good news that Egypt’s new rulers immediately shut down three Islamic TV channels, including one run by the Muslim Brotherhood, and also raided the Egyptian offices of Al Jazeera (yes, that "moderate" terrorist channel), which seems to suggest they intend to set the country on a course away from Sharia and Islamism.

Bad news is that this will embarrass and piss off the mad dog even more.

Originally Posted by leemo

Bad news is that this will embarrass and piss off the mad dog even more.

And further to the 'bad news' is we have 3.5 more years of having to deal with him. He still doesn't realize he's a major lame-duck. This latest with his health care law extension dings him even more.

Mad dog frothing at the mouth...

Originally Posted by leemo

raided the Egyptian offices of Al Jazeera (yes, that "moderate" terrorist channel

Owned by the Emirate of Qatar, one of the largest funders of the Syrian rebels. So what do the 'Buckingham Palace will be a Mosque' crew think of this considerable pushback against Islamisation? Ditto the protests in Turkey.

Originally Posted by Norton

Back to square one. Army back in the saddle. Now what? Another round of the same. Army will dissolve parliament, more constitutional wranglings and another election.

The Muslim Brotherhood will not be banned from participation. To win at the polls, the "opposition" must field a more attractive bunch of parliamentary candidates than in the first election. That is, ones not associated with Mubarak political machine. Number of votes the MB received in first election were a choice between MB and Mubarak associated candidates. Anything branded Mubarak naturally rejected.

Getting the right to vote is only the beginning of a long and difficult road to a mature functioning democracy. Egypt as well as other "new" democracies have a lot of lessons to learn yet so years of strife to follow. In the end, the form of democracy which evolves will by definition be determined by citizens not by "western" democratic norms.

Spot on Norton.
Geez, that makes about three sensible posts in this thread. I hope it's not a trend, we don't want to ruin TD's reputation.

"How to be a new democracy" round 2 coming up, military still in the drivers seat. Good to see a popular pushback against islamisation though. The nascent democracy in Egypt will face similar challenges to Thailand, you can be sure- the temptation for the disgruntled to get onside with, and then call in the military, will not go away overnight. In this case, it just happens to be right.