Thread: The 'Veil'

As you may know there is a lot of dicussion/debate going on in the UK about the right of Muslim Women to wear the veil.


Make ntlworld my home page



Veil teacher loses discrimination case
Watch video
A Muslim teaching assistant who refused to remove her veil has lost her claim of discrimination and harassment against the school which suspended her.
But Aishah Azmi, 24, won her employment tribunal case for victimisation and was awarded £1,000 for "injury to feelings".
Headfield Church of England Junior School in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, claimed face-to-face communication was essential for Ms Azmi's job as a bilingual support worker.
But Mrs Azmi refused to remove her veil and Kirklees Council suspended her from teaching.
In a statement Mrs Azmi criticised ministers who waded into the subsequent row saying it made her "fearful of the consequences for Muslim women in this country who want to work".
She is considering an appeal against the decision to dismiss her three claims of indirect discrimination, direct discrimination and harassment.
"It is clear that discrimination against me has taken place and I am disappointed that the employment tribunal has not been able to uphold that part of my claim," she said.
"However, I am pleased that the tribunal have recognised the victimising way in which the school and the local education authority have handled this matter and the distress that has caused me."







What I do not understand is why do not all muslim women wear the veil? I work for a number of Muslim families and the veil has never been worn, traditional clothing yes but not the veil. Are the people that insist on the wearing of the veil part of an extremist branch of the religion.

Perhaps Macha or Mhz could enlighten me.

Besides the woman was employed as a bilingual teaching assistant and I would have thought it essential to see the face when words and pronounciation were being taught.

A burka presents an extreme expression of an individuals religious preference.
I see no reason for these people to impose their extremism in a western workplace.
These fanatics should stay in Dubai. Oh yea but she would be beaten and whipped there for opening her mouth.
In western society they are allowed the freedom of protest.
A western employer also has a right to choose who he hires or fires.

When in Rome.....

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

A burka

A Burka is an Islamic garment worn almost exclusively by women living in Afghanistan and the sub-continent. The teacher in question was not wearing a Burka.

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

A burka

A Burka is an Islamic garment worn almost exclusively by women living in Afghanistan and the sub-continent. The teacher in question was not wearing a Burka.

I thought a burka includes the veil covering the face. I could be wrong and of course there are numerous cultural variations.

As far a persecution goes moderate muslims face much worse from their own kind.
You are familiar with the "fatwa" aren't you?

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

You are familiar with the "fatwa" aren't you?

As familiar as I am with Papal Bulls. A fatwa is merely a religious edict from an approprtiate Islamic authority.

Originally Posted by mad_dog

A fatwa is merely a religious edict from an approprtiate Islamic authority.

I think Salmon Rushdie might disagree with you.
Or Theo Van Gogh if he could still talk!

If I came to work dressed as Darth Vader (Jedi is now a religion) everyday and my boss objected. Could I also sue my employer for discrimination?

I now live and work in a muslim country, my workplace is proud of the fact that we embrace the 5 major religions (Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Hindu & Buddhist) - despite this the women are not allowed to wear the veil or indeed even the Jilbab - ( scarf covering head and neck - face completely open), the muslim females may wear a hat - but not the scarf.

A reasonable compromise I think.

I recently interviewed several people for a new laboratory technician - more than one was turned away because this was unsatisfactory to them.

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Straw and Blair and other politicans have been using the veil issue to make political ground. Their pathetic oppertunism adds to the persecution that Muslims feel. The constant targeting of Muslims in the media and by people with hateful intent (see how many threads there are in this sub-forum about Muslim "issues") is driving a wedge between Muslims and non-Muslims far more than a small minority of women wearing the veil.

I guess you have'nt read the story about the Brithish Airway employee who got fired because he was wearing a cross? Was that also being used by Blair and Straw for political ground?

What gets me about this veil issue is that muslim men expect women to run arround with a veil, but they run arround like civilized westerners.

Good Example:
One day at the Pattaya swimming pool (true story). Two muslim men in shorts walking near the poolsite with their tongues hanging down to the floor looking at the infidels breast and asses. Two meters behind a young muslim woman (poor soul) walking with a veil arround her head and the traditional clothing.
Lets hear it for women right in the muslim world one more time....

^How short is the skirt?

Originally Posted by Mhz

My sister doesn't wear a veil

You opened the door ... so I have to ask you whether she looks better with or without the veil ?

Originally Posted by Mhz

most Muslim men including me are against the veil. Your fokin media is the one showing the ones that force women to wear a veil.

The media is reporting about women that are forced to wear a veil because the Muslims are forcing them to wear a veil.

Acid thrown in the faces in Afghanistan and a law in Indonesia requireing women to wear a veil or be arrested.

Originally Posted by Milkman

and a law in Indonesia requireing women to wear a veil or be arrested.

Stating Indonesia is misleading. I could believe this to be true in Aceh, some parts of Sulawesi and maybe Madura, but, the vast majority of Indonesia practices a very laid-back form of Islam.

^ very true. but there are a certain bunch of crazies trying to bring Sharia law into Java also.....laws about unaccompanied women after dark etc.

Indonesian women are pretty assertive. The radicals will have their work cut out for them if they try to force the issue.

Originally Posted by Propagator

Are the people that insist on the wearing of the veil part of an extremist branch of the religion.

Some ineresting replies to this, but it still does not answer my query. Is the requirement to wear the veil an extremist branch of the religion. Does this occur in certain parts of the world only?

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

I guess you have'nt read the story about the Brithish Airway employee who got fired because he was wearing a cross? Was that also being used by Blair and Straw for political ground?

As far as I know she has not been fired yet - only on 'paid leave'. This case has been blown out of all proportion. It is a disciplinary case combined with the uniform requirement in that jewellary should not be visible.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

A burka presents an extreme expression of an individuals religious preference.
I see no reason for these people to impose their extremism in a western workplace.
These fanatics should stay in Dubai. Oh yea but she would be beaten and whipped there for opening her mouth.
In western society they are allowed the freedom of protest.
A western employer also has a right to choose who he hires or fires.

When in Rome.....

Earl, I never came across someone like yourself, honestly. Where did you get that "Burka or whatever you call it presents an extreme expression of an individuals religious preference?"

Please do some research about Muslims and their beliefs before spouting shit. A veil is not a religious thing. It's a cultural thing. I hope you got it now.

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Straw and Blair and other politicans have been using the veil issue to make political ground. Their pathetic oppertunism adds to the persecution that Muslims feel. The constant targeting of Muslims in the media and by people with hateful intent (see how many threads there are in this sub-forum about Muslim "issues") is driving a wedge between Muslims and non-Muslims far more than a small minority of women wearing the veil.

Mad dog i agree with you about the constant targeting of Muslims is driving a wedge in society.
However I have to diasagree with your statement concerning Blair and Straw. I personally laud Straw for bringing this issue to the table. It does need to be addressed and by being addressed more poeple will understand and hopefully more people will be more tolerant.