Thread: The 'Veil'

Originally Posted by surasak

That almost sounds comical. They ruled she should be compensated due to something she brought upon herself? That's nuts.

Sounds like a "Take this, you won't get more. Then fuck off"

I suppose the equivalent here would be an out-of-court settlement just to shut someone up. But that's generally done only when the plaintiff has deep pockets to pursue a long trial and when the plaintiff has a reasonable chance of winning.

I've seen it done lots of times in NZ.It's like a "You fucked up,but here is some money so that it will ease the pain abit"

They ruled she should be compensated due to something she brought upon herself? That's nuts.

That's modern Britain, I'm afraid.
It had gone a bit 'funny' when I left more than 10 years ago, but that PC stuff (and you won't find me saying this again in a hurry) has kinda reached its limit over there by now.

Have you ever seen a Muslim female replete with veil, in an Internet cafe?

Oh Yes.
FatBoySlim will want one of those for work.
I bet he becomes Islamic this week

Originally Posted by surasak

Why compensate someone if they don't have a case? Seems contradictory.

I read somewhere that she lost her case but was awarded damages because of the harrasment that she suffered.

Every plcae, Every Country, Every Institution has certain dress codes and rules to follow. If I apply for a job in an oraganization where they have a certain dress code I have to comply if I really need and want the job, If I have other options I will not take the job but if I am desperate for the job I will comply wether it goes against my religion or culture.

All Muslims believe that God understands us and loves us all so why make a fuss where we have no control?? Why not simply comply?

If God really loves us and understands us God will not punish us and if he doesn't then he is not God and we dont need to worry.

Originally Posted by surasak

Originally Posted by attaboy

the child is 2 1/2 months old? they don't even have full vision do they? No wonder voice is important to the baby.

If that's the thinking then wouldn't the voice be more important than the face? Kind of proves my point considering that prenatally it's always a good idea to talk and converse with the unborn child.

In reality he's actually in the 90+ percentile for his age. He can even stand (though wobbly) with little support other than holding his hands. His vision and hearing are excellent (the eyes follow movement many feet away, the head turns towards a noise etc).

People always say I have a radio announcer voice. I think that it's more comforting to him than my wife's Issan-laced-English-speaking voice. He doesn't seem to care about our facial expressions.

I was thinking of opening a thread about Mixed parents.
Their problems, happiness, experience etc.
Do we have something similar or do I hear an applause.
Someone else is invited to start it since my english is not the best.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

I was thinking of opening a thread about Mixed parents. Their problems, happiness, experience etc.

My parents are mixed, Father is Canadian & Mother is English. They have had their fair of problems over the years, Dad hates air travel & Mum loves holidaying in Canada. Dad loves English football, mum thinks it boring but likes David Beckham. It's no wondwr I've turned out the way I have.

I think he meant mixed race.

Originally Posted by Thetyim

Oh Yes.
FatBoySlim will want one of those for work.
I bet he becomes Islamic this week

yeah - selemat hari raya

Originally Posted by surasak

That almost sounds comical. They ruled she should be compensated due to something she brought upon herself? That's nuts.

Yes it is nuts because these English tribunals are usually gutless and instead of being firm with her - zero compensation, fuck off - they thought they would give her some dosh so she would go away quietly, thanking them for eleven hundred quid. And now it has backfired on them.

Originally Posted by surasak

I've never noticed a difference really. It seems like I can communicate better with my wife over the phone than in person.

Maybe you are both paying more attention when on the phone, and not being distracted by whatever else you are doing while talking to each other "face to face".

Originally Posted by surasak

I've been around many foreign people (mostly Asians) and never paid attention to how the lips/mouth move when speaking. I pick up words not by seeing how they speak but by listening to how the sound is made....

Watching foreigners speak English or their own tongue? If English, watching their mouths closely doesn't really help in understanding them since they get everything wrong - consonants as well as vowels. Much easier to listen to the whole sentence to decode what the hell they are trying to say.

If it's their own language you are listening to, then I totally disagree. Many times I have asked my g/f to repeat slowly what she said so I could watch exactly how the words were formed, as well as listen to the sound. And this is what kids in school must do to learn a second language.

^ he's been told already, dont think he 'wants' to agree.

Woman wearing these full veils must find a gynecologist everytime they need to see a doctor.I mean, who else would be able to treat them.....

Pick a muslim, woman gynegologist maybe?

Well, if a gynecologist can decorate his/her living room through his/her letter box, there is no wonder of things that they should be able to do through the veil....

Originally Posted by Roxy

My parents are mixed, Father is Canadian & Mother is English. They have had their fair of problems over the years, Dad hates air travel & Mum loves holidaying in Canada. Dad loves English football, mum thinks it boring but likes David Beckham. It's no wondwr I've turned out the way I have.

Yes, well mine were mixed too.

My father was male and my mother female.

If someone wants to exercise their right to wear a veil, let em. No stupid government legislation against personal freedom works anyway. Plus the old live and let live, and whats wrong with a bit of diversity? Im sure the UK could do with a bit of mixing of the cultures too. It may even help having a practicing veil wearing woman teaching kids of other religions.

It seems that even the US are getting embroiled in this issue:-

Defeat for woman who refused to take off her veil


By Catherine Elsworth in Los Angeles

Last Updated: 2:51am BST 24/10/2006





A judge threw out a Muslim woman's court case against a hire car company because she refused to remove her veil when she testified.
Ginnah Muhammad, 42, wore a niqab – a scarf and veil covering the head and face that leaves only the eyes visible – for a court hearing in Hamtramck, near Detroit. She was contesting a $2,750 (£1,470) charge from a car hire company for damage to a vehicle she said was caused by thieves.
Paul Paruk, the district judge, told her that he needed to be able to see her face to gauge whether she was telling the truth.
He advised her that if she did not remove the veil while testifying the case would be dismissed. She refused to take it off.
"I just feel so sad," Ms Muhammad told the Detroit Free Press. "I feel that the court is there for justice for us. I didn't feel like the court recognised me as a person that needed justice. I just feel I can't trust the court."
Mr Paruk said he told Ms Muhammad to remove the veil because it was his job to determine "the veracity of somebody's claim". He added: "Part of that, you need to identify the witness and you need to look at the witness and watch how they testify."
Michigan law does not stipulate how religious attire worn to court should be handled so judges have discretion to rule on such matters individually.
Metropolitan Detroit has one of the country's largest Muslim populations but Mr Paruk said it was the first time someone had come before him wearing a niqab.
Dawud Walid, the executive director of the Michigan branch of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said the judge violated Ms Muhammad's civil rights. He called for greater sensitivity towards the Muslim population.
The wearing of a niqab is the subject of intense debate in Britain after Jack Straw, the former home secretary, said Muslim women should remove their veils as he felt they were "a visible statement of separation and difference".
It has also triggered controversy in the US. In 2003 a Muslim woman from Florida unsuccessfully tried to sue the state for ordering that her face be visible in her driver's licence photograph.


It seems to me, and I state that this is my own personal opinion, that this controversy has only come to the fore in the last couple of years, and with the influx of Muslim from the Middle East area. For many years we have had a large number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi in the UK, whom I presume are predominately Muslim. And of course from this stemmed our great love of curries. There was no problem about the veil then, and the cultures appeared to live in harmony. So why the change? Is it because that the Muslim from the ME advocat a stronger interpretation of the faith than those from the Pakistan or Bangladesh areas. Which of course then means all Muslim are tarred with the same brush, irrespective of where they come from as the stronger voice seems to be coming from the ME.

Originally Posted by Propagator

It seems to me, and I state that this is my own personal opinion, that this controversy has only come to the fore in the last couple of years, and with the influx of Muslim from the Middle East area. For many years we have had a large number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi in the UK, whom I presume are predominately Muslim. And of course from this stemmed our great love of curries. There was no problem about the veil then, and the cultures appeared to live in harmony. So why the change? Is it because that the Muslim from the ME advocat a stronger interpretation of the faith than those from the Pakistan or Bangladesh areas. Which of course then means all Muslim are tarred with the same brush, irrespective of where they come from as the stronger voice seems to be coming from the ME.

I think this is indicative of the thinly veiled extremism which underlies much of Islam today.
This intolerance of basic western traditions displays IMHO their true desire to undermine all western institutions.

If this weren't so we would be seeing a loud outcry from moderate muslims against this extremism.
Since we don't we can deduce why.

Following a judges instructions in his court room is a no brainer. As is having you face uncovered for a drivers license.

IMO it's an issue symptomatic of the 9/11 and Iraq invasion aftermath.

Not that Pakistanis, for example, were ever particularly welcome by the British folks in the street, but the religious and cultural differences have appeared in a different light over the last few years, and whereas 15 years ago some "Paki-bashing" in the streets by an extremist minority, and Paki youths gangs retributing was as violent as it got, conflict has escalated to suicide bombers on one side, and violent raids in Muslim communities by authorities on the other.

How has it come to this - it's not the Britain I know from the 80s and 90s? I think it's futile to lay the blame at one side, I am not saying Islam has nothing to do with it, but I believe it plays much less of a role than is being portrayed - or why weren't there any Islamist suicide bombers 20 years ago?

weren't there any Islamist suicide bombers 20 years ago?

Wasn't the in thing then.Isn't suicide bombing (On the scale it is today)a recent thing that started in the ME?

Originally Posted by Earl

My apologies

No need for apologies cos I know you'll apologise again sooner or later.

Originally Posted by Earl

I wasn't aware of any other "cultures" other than Islam/Muslim who wore veils or Burkas.

There are Hindus in Pakistan who wear veils, now if that answers your question.

Pardon my stupidity but how do I distinguish between Islamic culture and Islam religion?

Learn to know them by reading their books, not from anti Muslim sites.

When a muslim cleric preaches hatred towards Israel and the USA is that a cultural "thing" or is it religious?

Neither cultural nor religious. It's the preacher's own point of view and those who listen to such preachers are the dumbest of all.

When a Sunni muslim detonates a car bomb outside a police station in Bagdad killing Shiete muslims is that a "cultural thing" or is it religious?

It's called sectarian violence which is pretty normal in such times. Iraqis are divided thus a sectarian violence, thanks to the Bush administration.