Thread: The 'Veil'

Originally Posted by surasak

To me it seems like a big deal about nothing. Why the hell get so bent out of shape over what someone wears?

I think, though, there's a big difference in asking someone to wear something versus asking someone to take something off.

Would it bother me if my child's teacher wore a veil? Absolutely not.

I would have thought that face to face contact is quite important.

Originally Posted by surasak

To me it seems like a big deal about nothing. Why the hell get so bent out of shape over what someone wears?

I think, though, there's a big difference in asking someone to wear something versus asking someone to take something off.

Would it bother me if my child's teacher wore a veil? Absolutely not.

Agreed why make some big issue out of something so trivial. All that will happen is Muslims will become more alienated.

I would have thought that face to face contact is quite important.

Agreed more to learning than conveying facts. There's the develpoment of social skills like reading people's faces. Maybe with a veiled face a child would learn to listen to the tone and timbre of a voice to get their signals.

As an immigrant myself, I feel it is incumbent to make the effort to assimilate. If not, why come?

The banks in Uk will not serve anyone wearing a crash helmet.
Will they serve anyone wearing a veil ?

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by surasak

To me it seems like a big deal about nothing. Why the hell get so bent out of shape over what someone wears?

I think, though, there's a big difference in asking someone to wear something versus asking someone to take something off.

Would it bother me if my child's teacher wore a veil? Absolutely not.

I would have thought that face to face contact is quite important.

I never found myself in school worring about whether or not I was looking at the teacher the whole time. In fact I tend not to pay attention directly to someone talking and instead listen while sort of drifting off into space. This lets me focus on what the person is saying and listen for auditory clues indicating sarcasm, etc.

People accuse the Muslims of being divisive in not wanting to 'blend in' to society, but, isn't it just as divisive (ironically) to expect people to give up their traditions or customs because those traditions/customs are simply different?

I guess if veiled teachers were routinely abusing and raping kids I could support a ban on weaing veils, but, until things like that happen it seems much ado about nothing. Just generating controversy for the sake of generating controversy.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

As an immigrant myself, I feel it is incumbent to make the effort to assimilate. If not, why come?

Intergration is better. You can retain aspects of your own culture while respecting Thainess. Most British Muslims do that well with regards to Britishness

Originally Posted by Thetyim

The banks in Uk will not serve anyone wearing a crash helmet.
Will they serve anyone wearing a veil ?

Here in the states many banks are requiring removal of sunglasses and hats as well prior to entering. I personally wear a hat and won't patronize such a bank.

^^^
That's the word I meant.
Wearing a veil is still not integrating. I have no problem with head-scarves, as women all over the world use them, but, the full veil is different.

^^^^Depends on the age of the student. Young children will look at teh teacher's face.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

As an immigrant myself, I feel it is incumbent to make the effort to assimilate. If not, why come?

Do you think it's fair to expect someone to modify their religious beliefs to 'assimilate?' Would we be arguing this if it were any other religious group?

Originally Posted by surasak

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

As an immigrant myself, I feel it is incumbent to make the effort to assimilate. If not, why come?

Do you think it's fair to expect someone to modify their religious beliefs to 'assimilate?' Would we be arguing this if it were any other religious group?

They are modifying their religious beliefs, the woman in question is of pakistani origin and up until a few years ago you would never see any women of pakistani origin in the UK wearing these face covering veils so why is it all of a sudden their religious duty to do so.

This is an attempt to stick 2 fingers up at the majority population.

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Originally Posted by keebone

Originally Posted by surasak

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

As an immigrant myself, I feel it is incumbent to make the effort to assimilate. If not, why come?

Do you think it's fair to expect someone to modify their religious beliefs to 'assimilate?' Would we be arguing this if it were any other religious group?

They are modifying their religious beliefs, the woman in question is of pakistani origin and up until a few years ago you would never see any women of pakistani origin in the UK wearing these face covering veils so why is it all of a sudden their religious duty to do so.

This is an attempt to stick 2 fingers up at the majority population.

Muslims feel threatened in my opinion. Read the thread on terrorism to see how hateful of Muslims many Westerners are.

Cant see how wearing something that marks you out as being of a rather extreme form of islam is going to help much if you feel threatened.

Who is threatening them to wear the veil? Is it so bad for Pakistani women in the UK that they cover their faces to hide?

They should feel lucky they live in a society that offers them so much tolerance without having to push it for all it's worth.

Name 1 country that has islam as it major religion that offers anywhere near the same religious and cultural tolerance that the UK does.

Originally Posted by keebone

Originally Posted by surasak

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

As an immigrant myself, I feel it is incumbent to make the effort to assimilate. If not, why come?

Do you think it's fair to expect someone to modify their religious beliefs to 'assimilate?' Would we be arguing this if it were any other religious group?

They are modifying their religious beliefs, the woman in question is of pakistani origin and up until a few years ago you would never see any women of pakistani origin in the UK wearing these face covering veils so why is it all of a sudden their religious duty to do so.

This is an attempt to stick 2 fingers up at the majority population.

A democracy must respect the minority populations and their traditions and culture, otherwise, it's not a democracy. You may expect them to learn English to stay in the UK (just as immigrants to the US should learn English) but you don't have the right to tell them how they may practice their religious beliefs (unless there's some law that all British subjects must be Protestants and never wear head coverings of any kind...including hats, scarves, etc).

Originally Posted by keebone

They should feel lucky they live in a society that offers them so much tolerance without having to push it for all it's worth.

Name 1 country that has islam as it major religion that offers anywhere near the same religious and cultural tolerance that the UK does.

Irrelevant to the subject.

Originally Posted by surasak

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by surasak

To me it seems like a big deal about nothing. Why the hell get so bent out of shape over what someone wears?

I think, though, there's a big difference in asking someone to wear something versus asking someone to take something off.

Would it bother me if my child's teacher wore a veil? Absolutely not.

I would have thought that face to face contact is quite important.

I never found myself in school worring about whether or not I was looking at the teacher the whole time. In fact I tend not to pay attention directly to someone talking and instead listen while sort of drifting off into space. This lets me focus on what the person is saying and listen for auditory clues indicating sarcasm, etc.

People accuse the Muslims of being divisive in not wanting to 'blend in' to society, but, isn't it just as divisive (ironically) to expect people to give up their traditions or customs because those traditions/customs are simply different?

I guess if veiled teachers were routinely abusing and raping kids I could support a ban on weaing veils, but, until things like that happen it seems much ado about nothing. Just generating controversy for the sake of generating controversy.

We as far as I am concerned,I like to look at peoples faces when they are talking to me.Facial expression under normal circumstances can convey many meanings and is a way that we interact.Most of the comedians in the world would be fcuked if they wore a ned kelly type veil.

Originally Posted by surasak

Originally Posted by Thetyim

The banks in Uk will not serve anyone wearing a crash helmet.
Will they serve anyone wearing a veil ?

Here in the states many banks are requiring removal of sunglasses and hats as well prior to entering. I personally wear a hat and won't patronize such a bank.

A good idea - removing hats and glasses. Obviously it is so the cameras can get a good picture of you and deter robbers and thieves.

Of course, no Muslim would ever contemplate robbing a bank and so should be allowed in covered from head to foot.

And be allowed to teach languages without revealing their face. Absolutely no need to see a teacher's face - doesn't help communication one little bit.

Originally Posted by surasak

Originally Posted by keebone

They should feel lucky they live in a society that offers them so much tolerance without having to push it for all it's worth.

Name 1 country that has islam as it major religion that offers anywhere near the same religious and cultural tolerance that the UK does.

Irrelevant to the subject.

Meaning: I know Muslims are incredibly intolerant of other religions, and take advantage of our tolerance of them, but I don't want to talk about that now.

As if the row of 10 cameras in the bank can't get a good enough picture already? Want to emply people at the door to make sure everyone's beard or moustache is real and not a paste on? How about asking people to remove wigs and toupees? Wait, Mrs. Barnhard has a coat on. She might have a gun under it!

I would agree that facial coverings don't belong in a facility with obvious security implications (such as a bank), but, a school? Are we really better off by sending a message of intolerance to our children that we must all become McDonalds fast food clones and that we shouldn't respect differences in others? Wouldn't it be simpler to achieve the goal of intolerance to keep non-whites out of the UK in the first place?

^Ever heard of facial expresions? Strewth!

Originally Posted by keebone

Name 1 country that has islam as it major religion that offers anywhere near the same religious and cultural tolerance that the UK does.

Name one third world country which has the same religious and cultural tolerance that the UK does. Most Muslim countries are third world or have unsustainable economies like the oil states. So it isn't really a fair comparison.

Malaysia is a Muslim majority developing country that has coped extremely well with a population which is diverse ethnically and religiously.