Thread: The 'Veil'

Originally Posted by Mhz

Originally Posted by Itchy

When Salman Rushdie, published his book Satanic Verses, British Muslims burned the book on British Streets, claiming as they did so that the book (which I doubt any of them had read) violated the core of their faith. The book, they told us, offended Muslim sensibilities.

Well to tell you the truth Itchy I am a Muslim and I dont give a rat's ass what others say about Islam wether it is Salman Rushdie or the cartoonist who made Mohammad's cartoons. The best i can do is discuss my religion with those who are interested. Once a friend asked me for my opinion about the cartoons and my answer was "Mohammad was looking cool". the guy was shocked and was asking me time and again why I dont feel angry and again my answer was "I love Mohammad and respect him with all my heart but if Mohammad wants me too make the whole world respect him than I am sorry I cant do that".

Now I am not trying to make myslef look good all I want to say is that I believe that every person has his/her own choice and we cant force them to change. All we can do is tell them about ourselves the rest is upto him/her.

Most of the Muslim protests against the cartoons were peaceful until the fokwit mullahs joined and started throwing stones and molotov cocktails at the police and shops in Pakistan.

The Muslims must realise that the uneducated Mullahs are the real Satans and need to be put down if they want Islam to prevail peacefully.

I was almost going to say good post Mhz. But then I read the last sentence and your true collor came back to light.

PREVAIL=dominate=govern=rule=reign=lord it over

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Originally Posted by Macha

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

A burka presents an extreme expression of an individuals religious preference.
I see no reason for these people to impose their extremism in a western workplace.
These fanatics should stay in Dubai. Oh yea but she would be beaten and whipped there for opening her mouth.
In western society they are allowed the freedom of protest.
A western employer also has a right to choose who he hires or fires.

When in Rome.....

Earl, I never came across someone like yourself, honestly. Where did you get that "Burka or whatever you call it presents an extreme expression of an individuals religious preference?"

Please do some research about Muslims and their beliefs before spouting shit. A veil is not a religious thing. It's a cultural thing. I hope you got it now.

I don't understand??
In Turkey or Pakistan some women wear no veil, half veil, full veil, Burka (with a few little dots to look out).
Does that mean that turkish or pakistani women have no cultur, half culture, full culture and some are so full of culture that they don't want to to be seen or can see themselves?

You dont understand because you dont want to understand. The reason that some wear a veil and some dont is that some of them want to and some of them dont want. Isn't it simple??

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Originally Posted by Mhz

Originally Posted by Itchy

When Salman Rushdie, published his book Satanic Verses, British Muslims burned the book on British Streets, claiming as they did so that the book (which I doubt any of them had read) violated the core of their faith. The book, they told us, offended Muslim sensibilities.

Well to tell you the truth Itchy I am a Muslim and I dont give a rat's ass what others say about Islam wether it is Salman Rushdie or the cartoonist who made Mohammad's cartoons. The best i can do is discuss my religion with those who are interested. Once a friend asked me for my opinion about the cartoons and my answer was "Mohammad was looking cool". the guy was shocked and was asking me time and again why I dont feel angry and again my answer was "I love Mohammad and respect him with all my heart but if Mohammad wants me too make the whole world respect him than I am sorry I cant do that".

Now I am not trying to make myslef look good all I want to say is that I believe that every person has his/her own choice and we cant force them to change. All we can do is tell them about ourselves the rest is upto him/her.

Most of the Muslim protests against the cartoons were peaceful until the fokwit mullahs joined and started throwing stones and molotov cocktails at the police and shops in Pakistan.

The Muslims must realise that the uneducated Mullahs are the real Satans and need to be put down if they want Islam to prevail peacefully.

I was almost going to say good post Mhz. But then I read the last sentence and your true collor came back to light.

PREVAIL=dominate=govern=rule=reign=lord it over

And by posting this you showed your real color Herman. So what do you want? You want 1.4 billion muslims to be killed or you want Islam to be finished from the face of the earth??

^ I don't like veils, and I don't trust people that wear them.


They should go back to where they belong.

Originally Posted by Milkman

^ I don't like veils, and I don't trust people that wear them.


They should go back to where they belong.

What if they are white British people?

Originally Posted by Milkman

^ I don't like veils, and I don't trust people that wear them.


They should go back to where they belong.

What if they were born in Britian?

...or black, brown or yellow British people?

Where do they 'belong', MM?

[q] There is anecdotal evidence to suggest that the increased popularity of the veil is due to the increasing level of persecution that Muslims feel.[/q]

There is also wide spread evangelism by the Muslims from the particular cultural background where Veil wearing originates (Saudi Arabia) throughout the UK.

[q]Many people in the UK found the inflammatory speeches of Enoch Powell highly offensive but he was free to give them. That is the nature of a Western Liberal Democracy:[/q]

I don't know many people who have actually heard or read the speak Enoch Powell made on the problems of un controlled immigration. Whenever it is raised it is shouted down.

And that is precisely the point I make.

The recent and on going debacle arises because, and only because the debate on immigration and integration has not been allowed to take place in an open and fair manner.

Hence when it does take place the pent up emotions come out.

And please, its not just about Muslims or indeed immigrants, the current political climate in the UK does not allow open discussion on such things as welfare, human rights, health care, parental responsibility, law and order, crime and punishment.

Or at least the debate is only allowed to take place were it follows the set piece discussion in which anyone who attacks the accepted notion that 50 years of liberal progress is going no where is branded a Racist/Bigot/Misogynist/Homophobe... any brand at all that shuts up arguments counter to the liberal view.

I’ll give you an example.

The accepted creed on immigration is that immigration is good for the country. I’ll go along with that, of course I will, I’m an immigrant here, my family are immigrants in the UK.

But immigration is not good for everyone in the country – The people it impacts the most in a negative way are the people at the bottom of the social ladder. And when they express their view, they are at best ridiculed, at worst referred to as Nazis.

Likewise. Yes the vast majority of Muslims in the UK fit in, get along and want to have the normal life’s the rest of us want and enjoy.
But not all do, some preach and practice segregation. When Jack Straw raises an issue that relates to segregation we have the right wing leaping up in cheers that some one is at last asking questions that need to be asked. The liberals attacking Sraw because, well it’s inconceivable to question an immigrant community and we have a bunch of Muslims claiming victimization of Islam

Meanwhile the vast majority of Muslims don’t get involved, probably are less interested than anyone here in this matter and just want to live their life.

I haven't lived in the UK for more than 10 years, but that's not how I remember it:

Or at least the debate is only allowed to take place were it follows the set piece discussion in which anyone who attacks the accepted notion that 50 years of liberal progress is going no where is branded a Racist/Bigot/Misogynist/Homophobe... any brand at all that shuts up arguments counter to the liberal view.

Liberal progress going nowhere an accepted notion - where?
Debate is not allowed? I come across articles ranting about Muslims, immigrants, misuse of the welfare state and taxpayers money everytime I pick up a Brit tabloid or visit a pub.

The accepted creed on immigration is that immigration is good for the country. I’ll go along with that, of course I will, I’m an immigrant here, my family are immigrants in the UK.

That must have dramatically changed since I left Britain, it wasn't a "creed" at all then, in fact immigrants got a lot of shite from Brits and were expected to be grateful for it in return.

I don't understand where you are coming from, mate.

I'm sorry you don't understand where I'm coming from Stroller.. my new found ..mate.
As you say, you've not lived in the UK for over ten years.

Originally Posted by Milkman

^ I don't like veils, and I don't trust people that wear them...

Veils are similar to masks, balaclavas and hoods - items of clothing often worn by robbers, thieves, rioters and trouble-makers who don't want you to see their face. That is why a lot of people don't like to see someone wearing a veil. It makes them suspicious - it's part of our culture to be suspicious of anyone hiding their face.

And "yes", I don't like them.

Originally Posted by RDN

Originally Posted by Milkman

^ I don't like veils, and I don't trust people that wear them...

Veils are similar to masks, balaclavas and hoods - items of clothing often worn by robbers, thieves, rioters and trouble-makers who don't want you to see their face. That is why a lot of people don't like to see someone wearing a veil. It makes them suspicious - it's part of our culture to be suspicious of anyone hiding their face.

And "yes", I don't like them.

I am from a small town in Cornwall so veils freak me out too but I would hate to live in a country where you are told how to dress.

Originally Posted by Propagator

Originally Posted by mad_dog

The percentage of Muslim women in the Uk who choose to wear the veil is tiny but growing. There is anecodtal evidence to suggest that the increased popularity of the veil is due to the increasing level of persecution that Muslims feel.

Surely this is increasing the level of persecution, and not helping the Muslim cause.

This is why muslims who chose to live in western countries should show some respect for our culture by voluntarily not wearing their veils while working in the west. No one expects them to renounce their faith. But they shouldn't assume to impose their fanaticism upon the rest of the world.

For the most part the western world is very tolerant of peoples of different
faiths. (perhaps to a fault)
I seems to me certain members of the Islamic faith are exploiting this aspect of western culture.

^ but are our women ecpected to wear a veil when over there?

it sorta gopes both ways doesn't it?

Good question KW. I am sure that I have read a report somewhere about when visiting certain countries in the ME that women have to cover up, ie legs, shoulders etc in respect for their religion. Dont think the veil came into it. Will try and find the article.

Originally Posted by Propagator

Good question KW. I am sure that I have read a report somewhere about when visiting certain countries in the ME that women have to cover up, ie legs, shoulders etc in respect for their religion. Dont think the veil came into it. Will try and find the article.

i'm playing devils advocate a little here, personally io find the full veil a little intimidating also.

i think (and could be corrected) that farang females are not required by LAW to wear the burkha in ME countries that use it.... but many do so to avoid problems (ie religious violent thugs etc) - which is hardly democratic or fair and thus surely a violation of human rights!

All women have to wear a headscarf while waiting for a connecting flight at Iman Khomeni International airport in Tehran.

Originally Posted by stroller

All women have to wear a headscarf while waiting for a connecting flight at Iman Khomeni International airport in Tehran.

Who in their right mind would make a connecting flight thru Tehran...

To me it seems like a big deal about nothing. Why the hell get so bent out of shape over what someone wears?

I think, though, there's a big difference in asking someone to wear something versus asking someone to take something off.

Would it bother me if my child's teacher wore a veil? Absolutely not.

Meanwhile, 10,000 Coptic Christians in Egypt were prevented by police from taking to the streets of Cairo to protest the sudden disappearance of teenage Christian girls by Islamists.

The girls are later reported to be married to Muslim men who are often twice their age, Coptic Church sources say.

In all of these cases the Egyptian Authorities and Police were aware of the location of those under 18 abducted girls - however they have been extremely negligent - by making promises which they do not keep, by forbidding the affected families to see or talk to their child, and by not bringing the kidnappers to justice. Not one of the abductors has been brought to justice, the sources say.

One of these victims was Laurance Wagih Amin, a 15 year old from Al Mahalla El Kubra, Egypt, who was kidnapped by Islamic fundamentalists for the purpose of conversion to Islam but fortunately escaped from her kidnappers and was able to tell her story.

In July this year another young girl from El Fayoum, Demiana Makram Hanna, suddenly disappeared.

After much effort her family were informed that their daughter had declared her change of religion to Islam and that she had married a Muslim.

As usual the family were refused access to their daughter. Two months later, a relative of the husband approached Demiana's family and demanded 20,000 Egyptian Pounds for her release.

After accepting the offer, the family requested support from the church in El-Moukatam in the Cairo suburbs, which sent four youth workers to meet the girl.

Not realising that they were being set up, the group proceeded to the location indicated. Within five minutes of arriving, they were overwhelmed by the interior security police who imprisoned the men and accused them of a number of serious charges.

After investigation in the matter by the local police, the men were all freed only to be later all re-imprisoned by the interior security police.


*After reading this report and also seeing it this morning on TV, I ask myself what torture must those young egyptian muslims girl been going through.

Originally Posted by surasak

To me it seems like a big deal about nothing. Why the hell get so bent out of shape over what someone wears?

I think, though, there's a big difference in asking someone to wear something versus asking someone to take something off.

Would it bother me if my child's teacher wore a veil? Absolutely not.

You mean like this? Or where do you tend on setting the limits.

Are we going to ask Jews to stop wearing yarmulkes?

Yellow shirts are offensive to me, I say lets ban yellow shirts as well.