Thread: Islam Ctr Planned Next to Ground Zero

Yes, let's discuss , since it was Saudi upper middle class men hijacking that plane, why does the US support that country to no end ?

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

No discusson regarding the Victory Mega Mosque is complete w/out a graphic like thsi:

Originally Posted by Ripley

And isn't demanding change one's civic duty?



Americans and that goes for anyone standing on US soil, deserve protection of the Bill of Rights one of which is freedom of ( and from? ) religion.

If one isn't a citizen what right does anyone have to 'demand' anything, let alone consider it a civic duty.
How does an illegal alien, non citizen, deserve the protection of the bill of rights?
That's so U.S. Centric and you are so typical American arrogance.

Originally Posted by keda

...

Contrary to his (and TD’s very own honest, balanced mods) claims of moderation, which the rabid left are eager as ever to bolster, Imam Rauf openly advocates Sharia, refuses to denounce Hamas, has lied about his commitment to religious discourse, blamed the US as a major contributing factor to 911 and goes further by saying bin Laden was born in the USA, lied that the GZ construction will not contain a mosque and also that it is not getting foreign funding. Rauf is allied to PGPO that helped fund the Jihad flotilla, whose chairman is the former unabashed Prime Minister of Malaysia. While his public face in the West through interviews and speeches is one of peace, tolerance and bridge building, which should make him an apostate, it is instructive that Islamic nations recognise that he is simply following the Koranic doctrine of Taqiya (deceit), which is why when he travels to Arab countries he does so as a friend and does not need any security around him to protect his miserable life.

...

...

...

Taqiya (deceit)? What's that one called in Jewish?

To me, as a good old extreme right- wing anti- semite, Rauf comes accross as the right man to head that soon to be built Muslim social centre 2 blocks from GZ (I like abbreviations). Why not reaffirm old alliances?

You will rue the day when this becomes standard in Our Land of the Free:



The only thing that will help then will be this, sit back and enjoy:

Originally Posted by Dug

Originally Posted by Ripley

And isn't demanding change one's civic duty?



Americans and that goes for anyone standing on US soil, deserve protection of the Bill of Rights one of which is freedom of ( and from? ) religion.

If one isn't a citizen what right does anyone have to 'demand' anything, let alone consider it a civic duty.
How does an illegal alien, non citizen, deserve the protection of the bill of rights?
That's so U.S. Centric and you are so typical American arrogance.

Any one standing on American soil is under her protection. You can't beat up someone because they don't have a visa and everyone gets equal protection,
( in theory, or at least they can sue for it )

Seems to me that is what makes America special.

PolPot: You haven't addressed my post, refuted a single point or attempted to. I have no problem with that. You also quoted part of my post concerning Rauf, one might imagine to address those points, but instead proudly nominate him to head the GZM precisely because of his Islamist lies, deceit, and anti-semitic qualities covered in the quoted part. No problem there, either.

Not that I agree with you, but you had the courage and feel strongly enough to declare your true colours, without couching them in pc terms, which most others are too cowardly to do.

Still, you claim to support Rauf to head the mosque because of his Islamic deceit, lies, and extreme views, while most others on here that have indicated support for him have done so by painting him as a, quote, "moderate".

Could it be that libbies regard moderates and extremists as interchangeable, according to which flavour best suits their case? What do you think?

Originally Posted by Ripley

Yes, let's discuss , since it was Saudi upper middle class men hijacking that plane, why does the US support that country to no end ?

Uh...Oil? Have to keep the busses running...

Still, you claim to support Rauf to head the mosque because of his Islamic deceit, lies, and extreme views, while most others on here that have indicated support for him have done so by painting him as a, quote, "moderate".

To control a guy (like Rauf), you have to make him feel important, an Asian will be eternally grateful. What better man to head this mosque than somebody you can control?
You don't need to control the whole congregation, you only need to control the boss- man.

This is an idea so simple, I never cease to wonder why Western Muslim congregations aren't much more influenced by local governments. How could those 9/11 bombers prepare and carry out their plans in Hamburg without the (German) government interceding? Easy..., liberal ideas of cultural sensitivity, of 'laissez- faire' (not in the economic sense), showing 'respect', etc.

The traits I admire in Muslims, strong sense of brotherhood, strong sense of cultural superiority, conservative family values, charity, are all characteristics that have been bred out of us in the West. And we've allowed our governments to do that to us.

So in a certain sense, it's our own fault we aren't 100% in control of our destinies anymore.

Originally Posted by sabang

Here is some information about Imam Rauf-

Feisal Abdul Rauf of the Cordoba Initiative is one of America’s leading thinkers of Sufism, the mystical form of Islam, which in terms of goals and outlook couldn’t be farther from the violent Wahhabism of the jihadists. His videos and sermons preach love, the remembrance of God (or “zikr”) and reconciliation. His slightly New Agey rhetoric makes him sound, for better or worse, like a Muslim Deepak Chopra. But in the eyes of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban, he is an infidel-loving, grave-worshiping apostate; they no doubt regard him as a legitimate target for assassination.

For such moderate, pluralistic Sufi imams are the front line against the most violent forms of Islam. In the most radical parts of the Muslim world, Sufi leaders risk their lives for their tolerant beliefs, every bit as bravely as American troops on the ground in Baghdad and Kabul do. Sufism is the most pluralistic incarnation of Islam — accessible to the learned and the ignorant, the faithful and nonbelievers — and is thus a uniquely valuable bridge between East and West.


Yet many of our leaders have a tendency to see the Islamic world as a single, terrifying monolith

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/op...me&ref=general

He seems a very good sort. If anything, the US should be subsidising him- in fact it is sending him on an O/S trip at state Dept expense..

It's a bit comforting to hear there are moslems thinking like this but there are not 2 Korans and the "true word of God " - not subject to interpretation, according to the so called "Shah of Melbourne" in his hour long documentary shown on ABC about 2 years back means that the people who support this benign moslem gentleman are in such a minority as to be ineffectual and the fanatics are still very much in charge.
Lest we forget!

Originally Posted by mr Fred

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

^ Yada yada. Always a few bad apples. How many muslims commit the same atrocities? Oh ya, no records coz they accuse the woman of adultery and kill her.

So the US marines have bad apples but all Muslims are guilty of the crimes of a few.
Can you explain why?

Yes fred I can explain : the marines have bad apples and they are punished when they are caught or found out.
Muslims on the other hand only SUPPORT the so called "crimes of the few ( many?)" or are in such a minority of opposition that they are too terrified to voice their displeasure or act to correct or punish the "transgressors" - by their cowardice or fervour they are ineffectual,thereby proclaiming all moslems as proven enemies of all unbelievers and guilty of atrocities agains humanity.
Got it now ?

haven't they owed the block of dirt for the last 27 or so years ???

Originally Posted by phomsanuk

Islamic extremists are not followers of Muhammad or maybe they just can't read,

• A white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.
  Muhammad Quote
• Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another.
  Muhammad Quote
  
• Do not consider any act of kindness insignificant, even meeting your brother with a cheerful face.
  Muhammad Quote
• The strong man is not the good wrestler; the strong man is only the one who controls himself when he is angry.
  Muhammad Quote
• A man's true wealth here after is the good he does in this world to his fellow man.
  Muhammad Quote
• The ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr.
  Muhammad Quote
• One hour's meditation on the work of the Creator is better than seventy years of prayer.
  Muhammad Quote
• Do you love your creator? Love your fellow-beings first.
  Muhammad Quote
• Shall I not inform you of a better act than fasting, alms, and prayers? Making peace between one another: enmity and malice tear up heavenly rewards by the roots.
  Muhammad Quote

You don't quote chapter and verse ? - make it up yourself?

Simple. To not allow the mosque to be built is unconstitutional and unAmerican, though a charge of gross insensitivity could be levelled at the mosque builders.

Originally Posted by bobo746

haven't they owed the block of dirt for the last 27 or so years ???

No....

Originally Posted by Thaiguy

Originally Posted by phomsanuk

Islamic extremists are not followers of Muhammad or maybe they just can't read,

• A white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.
  Muhammad Quote
• Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another.
  Muhammad Quote
  
• Do not consider any act of kindness insignificant, even meeting your brother with a cheerful face.
  Muhammad Quote
• The strong man is not the good wrestler; the strong man is only the one who controls himself when he is angry.
  Muhammad Quote
• A man's true wealth here after is the good he does in this world to his fellow man.
  Muhammad Quote
• The ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr.
  Muhammad Quote
• One hour's meditation on the work of the Creator is better than seventy years of prayer.
  Muhammad Quote
• Do you love your creator? Love your fellow-beings first.
  Muhammad Quote
• Shall I not inform you of a better act than fasting, alms, and prayers? Making peace between one another: enmity and malice tear up heavenly rewards by the roots.
  Muhammad Quote

You don't quote chapter and verse ? - make it up yourself?

These would be Meccan suras, advocating tolerance, humility and brotherly love. The megalomaniac was a peaceful bloke at the start of his deception in Mecca, and turned repulsive only after fleeing Mecca to Medina, where his following, influence and ego took off. This is why his flight to Medina triggers the Islamic calendar, rather than when he was just another wanabe usurper in Mecca.

Contradictions are an abomination, since they cannot be the words of a perfect god. Meanwhile, Mo was spouting revelations at such a rate that there was bound to be contradictions. To explain away the potential embarrassment, Mo adopted the efficient doctrine of abrogation, which allows that if something that comes later contradicts something that came earlier, then the latter is better and the first is abrogated.

My understanding (through Muslims) is that Allah gave good things to his followers, but as they increased in numbers and fervour, he decided to give them even better. Perhaps our resident Muslims would care to give their personal and or 'official' take.

Abrogation also implies what we are forbidden to discuss in polite society, that Allah, according to Mo's hallucinations, was in fact utterly clueless about what was coming next and made it up on the hoof.

Still, Islam rests on a foundation of the absurd.

I do enjoy your posts keda, unfortunately out of greens at the moment.

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Simple. To not allow the mosque to be built is unconstitutional and unAmerican, though a charge of gross insensitivity could be levelled at the mosque builders.

To be fair, they are not building a mosque and the building has been used for Muslim religious services for quite a while already

Two questions; why do you use \'haha\' so often to underline something that is not funny and why do you call all Muslims scum? They are American citizens and many were born there. Why does this make them scum? And no, it is not a mosque. And yes, there are rooms planned for other denominations to pray should they wish. The imam professes, as you say, peace and bridge-building, and you use \'haha\' to outline that you find that ridiculous. Possibly you are cynical beyond the point of being able to see through the fog of cynicism in your thinking. The wishes of the American people? You do realise that many in New York don\'t have an issue with the community centre being built there

^ Because this is a joke, a sham and a slap in the face to everyone who lost fam &friends on 9/11 and also to most Americans who hold that day and Ground Zero sacred. Check the polls; even a majority of left-wingers are against this place on this site.

Do you have the polls, seeing as you are making that statement? A broad spectrum of polls would be fair and balanced, as FOX is so find of sayibg. Added to which, Muslims also died in the WTC horror. How many Americans hold Ground Zero sacred? I am presuming that you are American and that means you certainly have the right to be indignant. Having said that, I lived there for the last twenty years and have met very, very few people who would be represented by the views on this forum

If the mosque does not get built, the terrorists have won, because they have effectively undermined and damaged the value of the american constitution. and, as a bonus, they worked it so the americans did it to themselves (the slobbering redneck morons amongst them, anyway)

I think the knobs behind it already know there will be no GZM at that location.

As I said before, now they'll squeeze for maximum money/land/concessions (Jizya!) from the infidel, and turn their defeat into political and religious capital by crowing about how tolerant and sensitive Islam is towards the religions and other sensibilities of its hosts. Pure crap, but it will be swallowed by many.

I for one would like to know how a waiter just a couple of years ago, managed to become a multimillionaire and was conveniently inspired to purchase the BCF and donate it as the site for a mosque; or as Rauf said, and icon!

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Follow that up with the Ground Zero Victory Mosque, and there will be only one 9/11 monument left to build — a Pentagon memorial:

There is already a Moslem prayer room in the Pentagon actually. I believe there are three in lower Manhattan, one of which is in Park Place- the building that will become the community centre.

Park Place is 2.5 blocks from the northern edge of the old WTC, but apparently more like 8 Manhattan blocks from the North Tower that was hit by a plane and subsequently collapsed.

Storm in a teacup.

And Keda, your beloved 'Sheik whomever', you do realise he is an ultra right wing Israeli currently living in NYC I assume?

Originally Posted by Indian Jones

Two questions; why do you use \'haha\' so often to underline something that is not funny and why do you call all Muslims scum? They are American citizens and many were born there. Why does this make them scum? And no, it is not a mosque. And yes, there are rooms planned for other denominations to pray should they wish. The imam professes, as you say, peace and bridge-building, and you use \'haha\' to outline that you find that ridiculous. Possibly you are cynical beyond the point of being able to see through the fog of cynicism in your thinking. The wishes of the American people? You do realise that many in New York don\'t have an issue with the community centre being built there

Check out post 448, and you won't need to do much research to discover this scummy imam is a persistent liar; on second thoughts he's probably ideal for the unthinking, well propagandised and submissive sheep that hang onto his every word.

Rauf was also one of first Islamic leaders to blame the Jews for 911. The response made him realise he f*cked up so he conveniently backed out of the public glare to Egypt for a well earned break, and no doubt congratulations and 'special services' for persuading many of his minions that the Jews dunnit.

Originally Posted by sabang

...And Keda, your beloved 'Sheik whomever', you do realise he is an ultra right wing Israeli currently living in NYC I assume?

I don't know which 'Sheik whomever' you are referring to, but I'm delighted that you do.