Thread: Islam Ctr Planned Next to Ground Zero

Whoops, notta Sheik, a Sultan (wots the difference?). 'Sultan Knish'.

Originally Posted by keda

Check out post 448, and you won't need to do much research to discover this scummy imam is a persistent liar;

I made the mistake of checking out post 448 to see what research you offered, but there was non there...only accusations without reference, links, proof, etc. If I decide to sell out my country by refusing basic rights to someone because their building will hurt my feelings--which is what refusing this mosque amount to...selling out the country--it will take more than blowhard on a website that considers demagogery and rhetorical declarations to be all the research I need.

Here's the Pew Poll on what Americans think about obama's religion.
Dems: 41% now say they don't know what religion he follows; 10% say he is mozzie. That's 51% who think he is not Christian.

Growing Number of Americans Say Obama is a Muslim: SECTION 1: OBAMA AND RELIGION - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press

^
What are you saying? That if a lot of Americans think he is a Muslim, that makes him so? As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of Americans think Iraq had something to do with 9/11, and had WMD. All these polls do is show how ignorant some Americans can be.

Do you think he's a Muslim Jet?

^I believe the only religion Obama subscribes to is the religion of opportunism.
Any which way the wind blows on any given day!

Originally Posted by pickel

^
What are you saying? That if a lot of Americans think he is a Muslim, that makes him so? As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of Americans think Iraq had something to do with 9/11, and had WMD. All these polls do is show how ignorant some Americans can be.

Do you think he's a Muslim Jet?

Nope, it's the perception. And if obama can't even make that clear (not that he can make anything clear), it leaves the People in limbo. And they don't like that. obama is largely incapable of making a "clear" decision on anything (how many times did he vote "present" in the Senate?), and when he does, he changes his mind the next day. Who knows now what religion he follows. I don't know. He sure seems to favour the crescent moon thing tho.

Heh...even Miss Muslim USA is against this Victory Mega Mosque.
What does that say when even Muslims don't think it's a good idea, eh?

Rima Fakih, Muslim Miss USA, Questions 'Ground Zero Mosque' Location

Originally Posted by sabang

Whoops, notta Sheik, a Sultan (wots the difference?). 'Sultan Knish'.

You're right, no difference between a Sheik and a Sultan. Fancy a ride on my new microwave, sabang?

Originally Posted by MrG

Originally Posted by keda

Check out post 448, and you won't need to do much research to discover this scummy imam is a persistent liar;

I made the mistake of checking out post 448 to see what research you offered, but there was non there...only accusations without reference, links, proof, etc. If I decide to sell out my country by refusing basic rights to someone because their building will hurt my feelings--which is what refusing this mosque amount to...selling out the country--it will take more than blowhard on a website that considers demagogery and rhetorical declarations to be all the research I need.

The post you quoted invites research, and btw, horror or horrors, there's a string of links at the end of the very post you refer to. Perhaps you missed them, they're at the very bottom, just above the signature.

Or, instead of making more noise than sense, you could be honest and say that you would rather sit back as everything is gathered and collated and prepared for presentation to you in a formal fashion, at which time you will decide whether it constitutes absolute 'proof'.

Ya, you mean about Pelosi wanting EVERYONE and the funding for those opposed to this mosque to be investigated? Your lefty party has gone even crazier.

Contrary to Islam's reputation of converting by the sword, the Qur'an is clear that there must be "no compulsion in religion." {1} Yet Muslims are not pluralistic in their worldview - they consider their religion to the be the true religion and invite people of all races, nationalities and religions to be part of it.
Islam is closely connected to the two other Abrahamic religions, Judaism and Christianity. In fact, the Qur'an explains that the religion of the Jews and Christians is the same as that revealed to Muhammad, and Allah is God of them all.

The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn to Him. {2}

More at:
Islamic Views of Other Faiths - ReligionFacts
I don't doubt that there are contradictions in the Koran, just as there are in the Bible, or that a few terrorists could use Islam as a recruitment tool. But to extrapolate that those few terrorists are going to bring the end of the Western way of life by the end of the century is the kind of extremism used to start little wars too. Once again, I ask for facts to support your theories. Not opinions and printed accusations in the New York Post or the Daily News, but facts.
Got any?

Over the past year and one half, this emergent fear has taken many forms as opposition political leaders struck out on multiple fronts: questioning the President's religion, his origins and citizenship; accusing him of promoting "socialism" and Marxism; arguing that the health care reform effort would condemn senior citizens to an early death; striking out against "illegals" and pushing to deny citizenship to their babies; and now hysteria over Muslims and mosques.

Seen in this context, the hysteria about the Muslim community center being planned near Ground Zero is not just a protest against a building and a place. It is rather the latest chapter in this evolving campaign that exploits fear by preying on uncertainty and insecurity.

.... But listening now to the hateful speech of some Republican political leaders, it has become clear that they have thrown caution, right reason, and decency to the wind. They have presented the very building of a mosque as a symbol of the victory of extremism over our values, while portraying Islam as a hateful ideology. And they have been given free air time on major networks, unchecked and uncontested. They are threatening the very fabric of our national unity. They are exploiting and fueling the fear of a distressed minority of white middle class Americans, alienating and creating enormous insecurity among Muslim Americans and profoundly tarnishing the image of America in the rest of the world (the consequences of this hysterical anti-Muslim campaign are worse than Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo combined).

Fear is back, with a vengeance. It rules the street and we have every right to be concerned. What is needed now are strong voices speaking again to our better selves. Voices that will speak directly to the Gingrichs, Palins, Cornyns, Becks, and Kings and say "Shame. Your bigoted appeals to fear and intolerance disgrace us all and put our country at risk in the world. In the name of all that is good, stop before it is too late."

James Zogby: For Shame! Fear Is Back, With a Vengeance


The damage this is causing in the international community, especially the Moslem world, is incalculable- and the hypocricy of these self styled 'patriots' (but more like traitors) positions vs the US Constitution, Bill of Rights and much vaunted liberty and tolerance of the US is quite astonishing. Not to mention mundane legal matters such as Private property rights. Needless to say hardliners on the other side are making considerably political and moral capital out of the whole Issue, which any level head will reaffirm has been blown out of all proportion, to the distinct detriment of the USA.

The cynical, ugly, low brow populism being displayed by elements of the GOP in particular should, in a rational world, preclude them from any possibility of being handed the reins of political power by the electorate in the foreseeable future. Hopefully this will indeed be the case when the controversy inevitably dies down- but then again the current USA is far from a rational place. Sorry to have to say it, but in any meaningful sense your still great (but less great) nation is regressing. It is quite sad to see, and the fact that one of your two main political parties is at the heart of it is even more saddening. The GOP has long since lost it's moral compass. As far as I am aware not one single GOP politician has spoken out against the current cynical politics of fear (but I hope I am wrong).

^
It's just not the Bush family but the entire Congress, both parties- have vested interests in maintaining war as status quo.

And US taxpayers are still paying out.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Heh...even Miss Muslim USA is against this Victory Mega Mosque.
What does that say when even Muslims don't think it's a good idea, eh?

Rima Fakih, Muslim Miss USA, Questions 'Ground Zero Mosque' Location

Maybe that Muslims are not one entity and are perfectly capable of contrasting opinions- that they are ... human?

This is just race baiting by GOP candidates who instead of discussing issues and possible answers to problems, instead rely on stirring up hate and tap into America's lingering bigotry.

Originally Posted by MrG

Contrary to Islam's reputation of converting by the sword, the Qur'an is clear that there must be "no compulsion in religion." {1} Yet Muslims are not pluralistic in their worldview - they consider their religion to the be the true religion and invite people of all races, nationalities and religions to be part of it.
Islam is closely connected to the two other Abrahamic religions, Judaism and Christianity. In fact, the Qur'an explains that the religion of the Jews and Christians is the same as that revealed to Muhammad, and Allah is God of them all.

The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn to Him. {2}

More at:
Islamic Views of Other Faiths - ReligionFacts
I don't doubt that there are contradictions in the Koran, just as there are in the Bible, or that a few terrorists could use Islam as a recruitment tool. But to extrapolate that those few terrorists are going to bring the end of the Western way of life by the end of the century is the kind of extremism used to start little wars too. Once again, I ask for facts to support your theories. Not opinions and printed accusations in the New York Post or the Daily News, but facts.
Got any?

You are quite wrong. There are no contradictions in the Koran because the doctrine of abrogation means there can be no significant contradictions in the Koran.

Doctrines of deceit, lies, fabrication and misdirection, are a common element in dealing with Islam. One common example, which you yourself deemed worthy of mention, is the chorus that there is no compulsion in religion, while stacks of dead bodies clearly testify otherwise. Yet the mantra will be repeated, and with effect, for children, fools and politicians to believe.

Btw Koranic tolerance and its use of Jewish and Christian prophets and events, would all be Meccan. If you do not know the difference between Mecca and Medina in the context of Islamic doctrine, please either do your own research or ask someone to lay it all out for you in an easy to understand format, and naturally with links, validations, and "proof" of each point.

Originally Posted by Ripley

^
It's just not the Bush family but the entire Congress, both parties- have vested interests in maintaining war as status quo.

And US taxpayers are still paying out.

When you boil it down, the US was taken into 2 wars by an arms manufacturer and the people believed him.

I'll bet MENSA is having problems recruiting over there.

Originally Posted by sabang

The cynical, ugly, low brow populism being displayed by elements of the GOP in particular should, in a rational world, preclude them from any possibility of being handed the reins of political power by the electorate in the foreseeable future. Hopefully this will indeed be the case when the controversy inevitably dies down- but then again the current USA is far from a rational place. Sorry to have to say it, but in any meaningful sense your still great (but less great) nation is regressing.

So true, and so sad. If you've ever seen the absurdist play called "Rhinoceros" (Ionesco, I think) you know what it's like living in America these days.

Originally Posted by keda

Doctrines of deceit, lies, fabrication and misdirection, are a common element in dealing with Islam.

Yes, deceit, lies, fabrication and misdirection are all at play in dealing with Islam. I think you just made my point.

Must be all bigoted Islamophobic lies, BM. After all, even the mainstream (Zoinist controlled?? - huh??) media insist he's a moderate.

Originally Posted by MrG

Originally Posted by keda

Doctrines of deceit, lies, fabrication and misdirection, are a common element in dealing with Islam.

Yes, deceit, lies, fabrication and misdirection are all at play in dealing with Islam. I think you just made my point.

Don't kow if this will work but try this for size anyway.

It may not be possible to get all the Dramatis Persona to acknowledge this
Islamic road to perdition but those Americans, English, Canadians,
Australians and citizens of all free non-Islamic nations who just do not
know, out of ignorance, just might find the learning experience worthwhile.

People who have spent a lengthy time studying Islam can confirm this video
is one of the best they have seen…it’s short and to the point and all those
points are dead on accurate!




< >

One of the oddest things about all this 'War on terror' crap is the fact that the US was funding most terrorist attacks in the UK only a few short years ago.

Of course that has to be forgotten now because it's inconvenient.