GOP: now & in the future

**Boon Mee** · 07-03-2013, 03:14 PM

Rand's Stand Against Drones Ends After 12+ Hours

He needed to use the bathroom. Should have brought a piss jug in the chambers before he started.

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) yielded the floor at 12:40 a.m. EST on Thursday, March 7 after continuing his filibuster of the confirmation of John Brennan as CIA Director for nearly thirteen hours.

He expressed regret that he had not broken the late Sen. Strom Thurmond's record of over 24 hours.

Why can't the president just admit what is obvious, that he's not permitted to murder American citizens?

Indeed...that was what Senator Rand's filibuster was all about. Brennen can't be passed until the American people get an answer.

**S Landreth** · 08-03-2013, 06:42 AM

According to the final 5-page agreement, signed by O’Keefe and his legal counsel Mike Madigan this past Tuesday, the boy detective now publicly “regrets any pain suffered by Mr. Vera or his family.” O’Keefe and his counsel have also consented to fork over the $100,000 within 30 business days of the settlement agreement’s being signed.

Crime-Stopper James O’Keefe To Pay $100,000

**Norton** · 08-03-2013, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Brennen can't be passed until the American people get an answer.

He got his answer. Brennan confirmed.

"'Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?'" Holder wrote. "The answer to that question is no." Upon receiving an answer to his question Paul, who had pledged to hold up Brennan's confirmation vote until he heard from the White House, agreed to let the vote proceed."

Brennan confirmed as CIA director - but not without drama - CBS News

**pseudolus** · 09-03-2013, 11:18 AM

^ Indeed - they will do exactly what they do in the UK - remove their citizenship, revoke passport, and then kill them with a drone strike.

**Boon Mee** · 09-03-2013, 02:56 PM

McRino has outdone himself!

Sen McCain called @SenRandPaul @SenTedCruz & me "wacko birds." Bravo, Senator. You got us. Did you come up with that at #DinnerWithBarack?
2:53 PM - 08 Mar 13

Talking about energizing the Tea Party base here or what?

Grahm & McRino have certainly done that!

**AntRobertson** · 09-03-2013, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

the Tea Party base

Uneducated, bigoted, racist, frustrated with impotent rage, white people? That's a base?

**Boon Mee** · 09-03-2013, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

the Tea Party base

Uneducated, bigoted, racist, frustrated with impotent rage, white people? That's a base?

You forgot the 'bitter-clingers' too, huh?

In an interview with the Huffington Post, McCain referred to Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) as “wackos.”
“They were elected, nobody believes that there was a corrupt election, anything else,” McCain said. “But I also think that when, you know, it’s always the wacko birds on right and left that get the media megaphone.”
Asked to clarify, McCain said he was referencing “Rand Paul, Cruz, Amash, whoever.”

At least McCain didn’t call them “Tea Party Hobbits,” an epithet he has used for those who would restrain the explosive growth of government spending.

The Tea Party is a natural development of this explosive, socialist, entitlement madness that's been inflicted on the US by the Left & the Right.

**AntRobertson** · 09-03-2013, 03:44 PM

The Tea Party is a fringe group of extremists that have proven a poisoned chalice for the GOP. I hope they stick around.

**Takeovers** · 09-03-2013, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

The Tea Party is a fringe group of extremists that have proven a poisoned chalice for the GOP. I hope they stick around.

Your wish may well come true. They seem to have a strong grip. Unless some determined group appears that breaks that grip the GOP is doomed. You cannot really hope that will happen. Democracy thrives on change.

**bsnub** · 09-03-2013, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

The Tea Party is a fringe group of extremists that have proven a poisoned chalice for the GOP. I hope they stick around.

Exactly most Americans consider then buffoons. That is why we refer to them as Tea baggers.

**AntRobertson** · 09-03-2013, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Takeovers

You cannot really hope that will happen. Democracy thrives on change.

Yes, you're correct of course.

However you can't deny me a small measure of schadenfreude. They did bring it on themselves by actively courting the nutters to begin with after all.

**Norton** · 09-03-2013, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

In an interview with the Huffington Post, McCain referred to Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) as “wackos.” “They were elected, nobody believes that there was a corrupt election, anything else,” McCain said. “But I also think that when, you know, it’s always the wacko birds on right and left that get the media megaphone.” Asked to clarify, McCain said he was referencing “Rand Paul, Cruz, Amash, whoever.”

Could be McCain and other senior members of the GOP are starting an effort to distance themselves from "Tea Party wackos"? Distancing the GOP from extremes of the party is the only way they have any hope of getting a GOP Presidential win.

This is just the first barrage of many more to come.

**Takeovers** · 09-03-2013, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Takeovers

You cannot really hope that will happen. Democracy thrives on change.

Yes, you're correct of course.

However you can't deny me a small measure of schadenfreude. They did bring it on themselves by actively courting the nutters to begin with after all.

I can't deny it. I feel it too.

**hazz** · 09-03-2013, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

The Tea Party is a fringe group of extremists that have proven a poisoned chalice for the GOP. I hope they stick around.

Your wish may well come true. They seem to have a strong grip. Unless some determined group appears that breaks that grip the GOP is doomed. You cannot really hope that will happen. Democracy thrives on change.

This issue is that the tea baggers are not a grass roots organisation, they are a manufactured tool of various special interests groups such as the tobacco, oil industries and the koch brothers. these people have discovered that relatively small investments in marketing your policies to these people, can impact public policy allowing returns on investment 10-100 times their investment in PR and marketing.

with these returns, these people are going to be kept tea baggers afraid of ghosts and well motivated for a long time.

Then lets not forget the long term and systematic campaing by the radical christrian right to create a generation of belivers to go into politics and the government and bring their view of utopia for all of you. Thats at the intern stage at the mo.

**robuzo** · 10-03-2013, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

In an interview with the Huffington Post, McCain referred to Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) as “wackos.” “They were elected, nobody believes that there was a corrupt election, anything else,” McCain said. “But I also think that when, you know, it’s always the wacko birds on right and left that get the media megaphone.” Asked to clarify, McCain said he was referencing “Rand Paul, Cruz, Amash, whoever.”

Could be McCain and other senior members of the GOP are starting an effort to distance themselves from "Tea Party wackos"? Distancing the GOP from extremes of the party is the only way they have any hope of getting a GOP Presidential win.

This is just the first barrage of many more to come.

As idiotic as Aqua Buddha Paul is, he is a different animal altogether from the loathsome Tailgunner Cruz. Even if he is the obvious beneficiary of nepotism, which would seem to run contrary to everything people like Ron Paul stand for (Gary Johnson is the better choice for libertarians), the "5-minute rule"* applies to him as well as it does his old man.

*When you listen to Ron Paul he makes perfect sense for exactly five minutes, then at 5:01 goes completely off the rails.

**Boon Mee** · 10-03-2013, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

In an interview with the Huffington Post, McCain referred to Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) as “wackos.” “They were elected, nobody believes that there was a corrupt election, anything else,” McCain said. “But I also think that when, you know, it’s always the wacko birds on right and left that get the media megaphone.” Asked to clarify, McCain said he was referencing “Rand Paul, Cruz, Amash, whoever.”

Could be McCain and other senior members of the GOP are starting an effort to distance themselves from "Tea Party wackos"? Distancing the GOP from extremes of the party is the only way they have any hope of getting a GOP Presidential win.

This is just the first barrage of many more to come.

It is indeed:

RAND PAUL: My Filibuster Was Just The Beginning.

The Senate has the power to restrain the executive branch — and my filibuster was the beginning of the fight to restore a healthy balance of powers. The president still needs to definitively say that the United States will not kill American noncombatants. The Constitution’s Fifth Amendment applies to all Americans; there are no exceptions.

The outpouring of support for my filibuster has been overwhelming and heartening. My office has fielded thousands of calls. Millions have followed this debate on TV, Twitter and Facebook. On Thursday, the White House produced another letter explaining its position on drone strikes. But the administration took too long, and parsed too many words and phrases, to instill confidence in its willingness or ability to protect our liberty.

I hope my efforts help spur a national debate about the limits of executive power and the scope of every American’s natural right to be free. “Due process” is not just a phrase that can be ignored at the whim of the president; it is a right that belongs to every citizen in this great nation.

I believe the support I received this past week shows that Americans are looking for someone to really stand up and fight for them. And I’m prepared to do just that."

Can't argue with that, eh?

Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) responded to John McCain’s criticism on Friday.
“I treat Sen. McCain with respect. I don’t always get the same in return.”
Classy...

**Norton** · 10-03-2013, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

I hope my efforts help spur a national debate about the limits of executive power and the scope of every American’s natural right to be free. “Due process” is not just a phrase that can be ignored at the whim of the president; it is a right that belongs to every citizen in this great nation.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Can't argue with that, eh?

I can't. Whether the President has the authority to order drone strikes on American citizens makes for good politics but far from a debate on ending the near unrestricted power he has as it relates to Congress.

The founding fathers rightly visioned Congress be the most powerful branch of government. Not surprising as they wanted to preclude an Imperial presidency. Since the founding of the US, Congress and the courts have conceded more and more power to the President to the point where currently a President's powers aren't far from those of a King.

He is the Commander in Chief of the worlds strongest military who can and has used that power to invade and occupy sovereign nations without so much as a whimper from a willing Congress. All done legal like cuz he has been given the power by law.

Increase of Presidential power dates way back but started in earnest with Teddy Roosevelt and continued though several administrations to secure near complete control over foreign affairs. Further, the War Powers act has given the President for all intents and purposes the right to declare war. US has a de facto Imperial President. Result. A President with unrestricted power to shape foreign policy. A President who uses secret assets to wage war without disclosure to Congress. A President who sends thousands of US troops to fight on foreign soil by simply declaring a "police action" or some other euphemism to circumvent a declaration of war. A President who can without impunity circumvent international treaties by redefining definition of these treaties.

The only thing separating a US President from being a complete dictator is he needs to gain public consensus for his acts. As we have seen since Teddy Roosevelt's "acquisition" of Panama up to today, Presidents are very adept at obtaining public consensus.

Cheers to Rand Paul for his effort to question Presidential power but let him and other members of Congress repeal laws which give a US President imperial power and further put in place laws which reduce his power to the level founding fathers had in mind.

**Boon Mee** · 10-03-2013, 12:14 PM

^
In much of the same vein we are now seeing DHS making unwarranted stops of peaceful citizens. To their credit, the folks are refusing:

Top DHS checkpoint refusals - YouTube

Checkpoints (some would say illegal checkpoints) have been popping up quite frequently in the USA. As you see in this video, you DO NOT have to comply with their question's or demands. Don't forget, you have rights.

Those of you in the States, for commission to memory:

“On advice of council, I do not consent to searches of my person or property.”
“Am I being detained? Let me know when I am free to leave.”
“On advice of council, I have nothing further to say to you.”

If the GOP were in Big White, you can imagine the liberal heads exploding. But with Obama in power it's for your own good now shut up.

**misskit** · 10-03-2013, 12:56 PM

^
If the GOP were in Big White, you can imagine the liberal heads exploding while the teabaggers tout what an effective anti-illegal immigrant deterrent the DHS checkpoints are. But with Obama in power, teabaggers scream and yell about their rights being violated.

Odd as it is, you've got the the right railing about stopping the flow of illegal immigrants, but when something is actually done to try to control them, they find fault. All because they don't like Obama.

Whist you may pretend, for your own reasons, liberals don't mind the invasiveness of the federal government, they have been complaining for many more years about it than the baggers. You do remember DHS was started during a GOP regime, don't you?

**Boon Mee** · 10-03-2013, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by misskit

^
You do remember DHS was started during a GOP regime, don't you?

Yes, but it's morphed into some horrible gestapo entity now. Freedom gropes of old grannies and little kids but don't profile!

btw, thought you were from Georgia, USA?

"Whist you may pretend"...whilst?

**misskit** · 10-03-2013, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

btw, thought you were from Georgia, USA?

"Whist you may pretend"...whilst?

We say whilst in Georgia. It's a real word ain't it? Proof I'm a cracker with British roots.

Am I in some kind of time warp? My clocks say its 1:07 but TD's time is ahead of me.

The DHS hasn't morphed. It is the same animal it was when created, you've just now noticed. It looks out of control now because the memories of 9-11 are fading and people aren't afraid any longer. (That, and a Black socialist Kenyan-born Indonesian Muslim man is in power.)

**sabang** · 10-03-2013, 02:05 PM

Holding up the Senate for 12 hours is a 'principled cause'? Not in my opinion it isn't- John Brennan was set to be safely confirmed, this was well known and indeed it happened. The only effect of Rand Pauls fillibluster was to waste valuable time, one whole day of important business, in the upper house of the US government. It's job is to enact legislation, not act like big truculent babies stalling things for the sake of it, and a bit of publicity. The filibuster needs to be cancelled. In fact, it is quite clear that if one congressional party refuses to play the game by the 'rules'- both written and those set by precedent- the only way the US government can remain functional is if the governing party enjoys safe majorities in congress, senate and the whitehouse. That rarely happens in US politics, although I reckon it will be the case again after the mid-terms.

Perhaps we should credit the republican party with exposing the essential fragility of the US system of government, under these circumstances. Well gee, thanks- but something must surely be done to fix it, the US is hardly the shining beacon of democracy in action these days. In fact, it's spiteful and petulant politics more closely resembles a kiddies playpen. The worlds largest economic and military power deserves better governance than this, and the world deserves better of the USA- at least if you want your tarnished 'freedom and democracy' slogan to fall on anything but deaf ears. I hardly think the USA is setting a desirable example to be followed in the developing world (ie, most of the world), and it would logically follow that these nations will be increasingly looking elsewhere for decent and efficient models of governance.

**misskit** · 10-03-2013, 02:34 PM

^ Filabusters are a colossal waste of time. It gives a person or a minority of people a way to hold up the whole business of the senate.

The are many questions to be answered about drone use, but from what I understand, Paul got up there and filibustered even after he had his answered by the White House. I reckon he is getting attention drawn to himself to raise funds and ready for a presidential run next election.

**sabang** · 10-03-2013, 03:02 PM

I believe so- but he won't get the republican nomination, he'd have to run as an independent or libertarian.

**Boon Mee** · 10-03-2013, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by misskit

We say whilst in Georgia. It's a real word ain't it? Proof I'm a cracker with British roots.

I supposed you also call the last letter in the English alphabet "Zed" too?

Thread: GOP: now & in the future

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions