Ukraine war mega thread

[helge]

And with domestic political problems thrown in

[helge]

Now something completely....................(fill in the blanks yourself.

According to iranian news outlets, Steven Seagal is considered as replacement for russian minister of defense, Sergei Shoigu.

They quote the russian news agency, Sputnik.

(the original Sputnik was also far out)

[Norton]

Been here, done this before.

Ukraine finds British WW2 Hurricane planes outside Kyiv - BBC News

[Stretchy]

^ Bloody Brits sending their old stock instead of modern planes! Typical!

[Joe 90]

Ukraine war: The lethal minefields holding up Kyiv'''s counter-offensive - BBC News

[Joe 90]

Been here, done this before.

Ukraine finds British WW2 Hurricane planes outside Kyiv - BBC News

Interesting article Norts!

In total, about 3,000 Hurricanes were sent to the USSR between 1941 and 1944 to support the Soviet war effort. Most were either destroyed in combat or dismantled later for parts.

But some Hurricanes were deliberately broken up and buried after the war so the Soviets did not have to pay back the United States. Under the Lend-Lease legislation, the USSR was required to pay for any donated military equipment that remained intact after hostilities ended.

This was the fate of the eight Hurricanes found buried in woodland south of Kyiv - now the capital of independent Ukraine, but until 1991 part of the USSR.

[bsnub]

Under the Lend-Lease legislation

Russia would never have made it to Berlin without the lend-lease.

[Hugh Cow]

I'm not sure I agree with "pales into insignificance". I checked the Country Corruption Index for 2021 and Ukraine was ranked 122 with Index=32 and Russia 136 with Index=29. They are both well down the list and to put this into perspective Thailand is ranked 110 with an Index = 35.

So Helge has a point about Ukraine being corrupt.

Nationalism has spread again throughout Europe and other parts of the World. It has always been my view that Nationalism is the major reason for wars. We are all humans and we should all be allowed to settle and live wherever we wish in the modern age. Not the view of everyone, which is a great pity.

That may be correct in normal times but it is totally unrealistic to expect a country at war to be able to fix what is endemic corruption going back to the soviet era so the current rating of corruption level may or maybe not correct but to compare Russia and Ukraine considering the vastly different levels of war and peace in the two countries at the moment is irrelevant. Wait until there is a sustained level of peace and stability in Ukraine where it has resources it can divert to the problem rather than just national survival before making comparisons.

[Loy Toy]

I guess any politician in The Ukraine, corrupt or not, should be so proud of their fellow citizens for their bravery and fortitude and therefore in the future act wisely and honestly on their behalf.

Well I hope so anyway.

[helge]

Well I hope so anyway.

Colour for hope is green.

I'd have to google the colour for naivety.



And you are right.

Brave lads

[bsnub]

naivety

You take the cake when it comes to this.

[Joe 90]

Or biscuit

[bsnub]

I would strongly suggest you who look at this thread watch this...

Контрнаступ | 47-ма ОМБр "Маґура" прориває оборону росіян на півдні - YouTube

There is no gore, but it shows how much more professional the Ukrainian army is compared to the ruzzians. I would suggest taking the time to watch the entire thing, as the senior NCO has some very poignant observations along the way.

[bsnub]

Opps! I forgot to add that the video has English subtitles so be sure to click those in the YT toolbar.

[OhOh]

Oh dear, another group of countries turn the backs to the 16% "rules".

LEAK: Latin American countries push back on Ukraine, EU agenda ahead of joint summit


By Alexandra Brzozowski and Aurélie Pugnet | EURACTIV.com


Author name


Aurélie Pugnet


Reporter, Global Europe & Defence

Jul 6, 2023

"Central and Latin American countries threw cold water on the EU’s efforts to rally the continent’s support for Ukraine and called for colonial reparations in a counter-proposal of an upcoming EU summit draft declaration, seen by EURACTIV.

Heads of state and governments of 33 countries of the Community of Latin American and Caribbean States (CELAC) are expected to travel to Brussels on 17-18 July for a summit with their EU counterparts.

Ahead of the landmark summit, however, the countries sent a 21-page counter-proposal to the draft text EU member states had sent them last month, dated 4 July and seen by EURACTIV.

Ukraine support as irritant
The initial EU-proposed summit declaration text had included several paragraphs on support for Ukraine, referencing the UN General Assembly’s resolutions, three people familiar with the document said.

“The text on Ukraine was very balanced,” one EU diplomat told EURACTIV. “There is nothing special about anything we sent them,” a second EU diplomat added.

However, Latin American countries “deleted everything about Ukraine”, a third EU diplomat complained after seeing the counter-proposal.

Since the start of Russia’s war on Ukraine, Europeans have been firm in saying that post-war peace should be built according to Kyiv’s parameters, which the CELAC proposal does not mention.

According to the modified declaration text, the EU and CELAC members would together “advocate for serious and constructive diplomatic solutions to the current conflict in Europe, by peaceful means, which guarantees the sovereignty and security of us all, as well as regional and international peace, stability and security”.

“It is crucial that the joint declaration should refer to a shared commitment to all principles enshrined in the Charter of the UN, including respect to territorial integrity and sovereignty, and the need to condemn Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine,” a fourth EU diplomat told EURACTIV.

The counterproposal is expected to be discussed by EU ambassadors in their meeting on Friday (7 July) where member states are expected to discuss how much they are willing to compromise on language in an effort to salvage a draft communiqué being ready for the summit in two weeks.

“The initial reaction was somewhat expected – now the real negotiations start. But we will work hard to have a declaration,” a fifth EU diplomat said.

“But we also have to take into account the possibility that the summit might end without any joint declaration,” a sixth EU diplomat quipped. Another one echoed that sentiment.

An additional irritant ahead of the joint summit was back and forth around the attendance of Ukraine’s President Zelenskyy, who initially received an invitation from Spain – but was dropped after pushback from Latin American leaders.

Continues at:

LEAK: Latin American countries push back on Ukraine, EU agenda ahead of joint summit – EURACTIV.com


Who are the Community of Latin American and Caribbean States (CELAC)

Member states
Eighteen Spanish-speaking countries

Argentina

Bolivia
Chile
Colombia
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
El Salvador
Guatemala
Honduras
Mexico
Nicaragua
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Uruguay
Venezuela

Twelve English-speaking countries

Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Barbados
Belize
Dominica
Grenada
Guyana
Jamaica
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Trinidad and Tobago

One Dutch-speaking country

Suriname

One French-speaking country


Haiti

One Portuguese-speaking country


Brazil

Population:

600,000,000

Location:

Mexico in the north, to the Southern Ocean in the south.

[NamPikToot]

It has, together with religion, always been a tool for warfare.

Hmm i'm not sure about that. Naionalism is largely internal, countries that seek to expand outside their national borders are expansionist

[helge]

Naionalism is largely internal,

Why I wrote that it was a tool.

You know: Playing the nationalist card to muster support.

[bsnub]

Ukraine could have more battle tanks than Russia for the first time ever, new data suggests


Ukraine could now be able to field more battle tanks than Russia for the first time, new data suggests.

A compilation of data from various sources suggests Ukraine currently has roughly 1,500 active tanks compared with around 1,400 for Russia, Bloomberg reported.

Russia began the war with 3,417 tanks available. At the same time, Ukraine had 987, according to The Military Balance for 2023, an annual report by the International Institute for Strategic Studies think tank which looks at military equipment inventories.

While Ukraine's tank fleet has continued to grow, Russia's has been severely depleted.

Ukraine has received 471 additional tanks since the war began last year, and a further 286 are still due to arrive, per data published by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy,
During the conflict, Ukraine has lost 558 tanks and captured 546, data from open-source outlet Oryx suggests.

Meanwhile, Oryx estimates Russia has lost 2,091 tanks in the war.

This is likely a conservative estimate, as the outlet only counts destroyed vehicles of which photo or video graphics evidence is available.

A top British defense official said this week that Russia has lost "nearly half" of its combat effectiveness since invading Ukraine.

Russia has also been bringing decades-old Soviet tanks out of storage to send to the front lines after suffering heavy equipment losses.

It is difficult to confirm exact figures for equipment as both Russia and Ukraine treat their losses as classified information, and open-source data can only provide rough estimates. It is also unclear how many old, retired tanks Russia has brought out, Bloomberg noted.

On paper, Russia has more than 12,000 tanks, but most are believed to be obsolete and in storage. Many are too dilapidated to be useful for anything except as a source of scrap metal, a May 27 British military intelligence situation estimate said, per The Kyiv Post.

While the parity of tanks on the battlefield could be promising for Ukraine, Yohann Michel, a land warfare specialist at the IISS, warned Bloomberg that parity might not be enough.

"Even if the situation is more equal in numbers, that isn't how it works," Michel said. "The problem is that Ukraine now needs to regain territory, so it's on the offensive against well-prepared defenses, and for that, you need a strong advantage."

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukra...me-data-2023-7

[Norton]

"Even if the situation is more equal in numbers, that isn't how it works," Michel said. "The problem is that Ukraine now needs to regain territory, so it's on the offensive against well-prepared defenses, and for that, you need a strong advantage."

Attackers need about 4 to 1 advantage. Michel is spot on.

[Joe 90]

Proper air support would be nice if putin didn't have his twitchy finger on the red button..

[Takeovers]

Attackers need about 4 to 1 advantage. Michel is spot on.

The equation includes quality of the troops.

The British overran the Argentinians in the Falklands, against a much bigger defense force ratio than 3 to 1.

[Pragmatic]

The British overran the Argentinians in the Falklands, against a much bigger defense force ratio than 3 to 1.

Which according to tacticians 3 to 1 is the correct figure.

A military axiom is that an attacking force should outnumber defenders at the tactical level of war by a ratio of 3:1 to have a reasonable chance of success

Urban Operations in Ukraine: Size, Ratios, and the Principles of War - Modern War Institute

[Takeovers]

Which according to tacticians 3 to 1 is the correct figure.

The numbers were 3 Argentinean vs. 1 British, or higher.

[Troy]

Not a good example to use when considering attacking force ratio. 3:1 to 4:1 ratio is the norm.

Falklands was a professional army against conscripts.

[bsnub]

The numbers were 3 Argentinean vs. 1 British, or higher.

In this current war, those numbers do not wash. The ruzzian army has been wiped clean since the start of the war, most of the so-called "professional" units were destroyed in the first "lightning offensive" push into Kyiv. The rest have been destroyed on multiple fronts, and I have been posting those events for months, so I have no patience for posters who have not kept up.

The reality is that after the first ruzzian defensive line in the south is penetrated, there are no reserve forces behind, so when Ukraine is finally done probing the defensive line with its four brigades it will punch through the weak point.