Ukraine war mega thread

[Backspin]

BREAKING: Russian President Vladimir Putin and his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron have agreed to take urgent measures to halt escalation of conflict in eastern Ukraine, the Elysee palace has said in a statement.

https://www.rt.com/russia/550045-putin-macron-call-ukraine/

The French are going over the heads of the Anglo war monger alliance. France is a nuclear power on the mainland. They can do this.

[Ravers98]

BREAKING: Russian President Vladimir Putin and his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron have agreed to take urgent measures to halt escalation of conflict in eastern Ukraine, the Elysee palace has said in a statement.

https://www.rt.com/russia/550045-putin-macron-call-ukraine/

The French are going over the heads of the Anglo war monger alliance. France is a nuclear power on the mainland. They can do this.

Hahaha you're funny

[NamPikToot]

The French are going over the heads of the Anglo war monger alliance. France is a nuclear power on the mainland. They can do this.

The jumped up Froggie came back with a peace in our time announcement already, its an election year and he's trying to come off as a world statesman but Putin is just laughing behind his back. He should stay at home and work on his pet project of making French the EU official language.

[Backspin]

Hahaha you're funny

And you're a brainwashed Anglo, supporting literal Nazis in Ukraine

[helge]

He should stay at home and work on his pet project of making French the EU official language.

It already is

As are 23 other lanquages
English too

Your paranoia is getting the better of you.

We don't hate the UK

Actually we don't even think about you

[misskit]

Ukraine latest: Macron urges Putin to 'avoid a major conflict'

French President Emmanuel Macron and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin on Sunday agreed to intensify the search for solutions to the Ukraine standoff during a nearly two-hour phone call.


The pair agreed on "the need to favor a diplomatic solution to the ongoing crisis and to do everything to achieve one," Macron's office said, adding that both countries' foreign ministers would meet "in the coming days."


According to the Kremlin's version of the call, Putin blamed Kyiv for a military escalation in eastern Ukraine and agreed on the need to "intensify efforts to find solutions through diplomatic means."


Moscow said the talks would take place in the Normandy format, meaning with representatives of Russia and Ukraine under Franco-German moderation.


Macron then called Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, just a day after Kyiv said it would not respond to what it called Russia's "provocations," according to the Elysee, and remained open to "dialogue" with Moscow.


The two leaders discussed the "need and possible ways of immediate de-escalation," Zelenskyy wrote on Twitter.

Earlier, Zelenskyy called on Putin to meet him and seek a diplomatic resolution to the crisis.


Russia: Western countries should 'come to reason'

Putin's spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, said there was "no point of Russia attacking someone." He urged Western partners to "come to reason."

"But let's remind that throughout its history, Russia has never attacked anyone. And Russia, which has survived so many wars, is the last country in Europe that wants to talk at all, even to say the word war," Peskov told the state-run Russia 1 broadcaster.

European Council President Charles Michel said, "The big question remains: does the Kremlin want dialogue?"

"We cannot forever offer an olive branch while Russia conducts missile tests and continues to amass troops," Michel said at the Munich Security Conference.

He said, "One thing is certain: if there is further military aggression, we will react with massive sanctions."

French President Macron is expected to discuss the crisis with US President Joe Biden and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz later on Sunday.

The Organization for Security and Co-operation (OSCE) is expected to hold Ukraine talks on Monday.

Blinken: All signs suggest Russia on the brink of invading Ukraine

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken told CNN on Sunday that "everything we're seeing suggests that this is dead serious, that we are on the brink of an invasion [of Ukraine]."

"But until the tanks are actually rolling and the planes are flying, we will use every opportunity and every minute we have to see if diplomacy can still dissuade President Putin from carrying this forward."

Blinken insisted that the deterrent impact of sanctions would be lost if they are triggered before an invasion despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's passionate plea on Saturday to unleash them.

Blinken told ABC's "This Week" that US President Joe Biden has made "very clear that he's prepared to meet President Putin at any time, in any format, if that can help prevent a war."

US National Security Council meeting on Ukraine

US President Joe Biden was set to meet his National Security Council on Sunday to discuss the threat of war in Ukraine.

Biden earlier said the US believed Putin had decided to invade Ukraine.

Speaking to media after attending the Munich Security Conference, Vice President Kamala Harris on Sunday said she hopes an invasion of Ukraine could still be prevented.

"We would all not just prefer, we desire, we believe that it is in the best interest for all that there is a diplomatic end to this moment," she said.

Harris said it was important not to underestimate the significance: "We are talking about the real possibility for war in Europe."

She was returning to the US on Sunday to participate in the National Security Council meeting.

Ukraine says it's time to implement some sanctions against Russia

Ukraine's Foreign Minister Dmytro said that it was time for the West to implement at least part of its sanctions against Russia.

"Russia has to be stopped right now. We see how events are unfolding," Kuleba said.

His statement at the Munich Security Conference came soon after Russia and Belarus announced an extension of military drills near Ukrainian borders.

"It's time to act. I'm officially saying that there are all the grounds to implement at least a part of sanctions prepared against Russia, now," Kuleba said.

Earlier, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson told the BBC that Putin might not be thinking logically, so the threat of sanctions may not be enough to deter a Russian invasion.

"We have to accept at the moment that Vladimir Putin is possibly thinking illogically about this and doesn't see the disaster ahead," Johnson said.

The US and Britain would stop Russian companies from "trading in pounds and dollars," a move that Johnson said would "hit very, very hard."

Donbas sees the worst shelling in years

Russian-backed separatists in the Donbas have claimed that Ukrainian forces have killed two civilians.

The incident occurred in Pionorskoye in the self-proclaimed Luhansk People's Republic, a spokesperson told Russian news agency Interfax on Sunday.

Ukrainian government forces and pro-Russian rebels have reported increased shelling in the east over the last few days.

Kyiv said two Ukrainian servicemen died from injuries sustained from the shelling, while another four servicemen were injured and receiving treatment.

Leaders of Luhansk and Donestk ordered a full military mobilization on Saturday.

Washington and other Western allies say the apparent flare-up could form part of a Russian pretext to invade Ukraine.

UEFA Champions League final in Russia

European football governing body UEFA said there are "currently no plans" to move the Champions League final from Russia.

The final is scheduled for May 28 in the St Petersburg arena.

UEFA told the German dpa press agency it would continue to monitor the crisis between Russia and Ukraine.

Ukraine latest: Macron urges Putin to ′avoid a major conflict′ | News | DW | 20.02.2022

[Ravers98]

And you're a brainwashed Anglo, supporting literal Nazis in Ukraine

Really, and you know everything about me? As I am not an Anglo try again.

[misskit]

Ukraine: Russia plans biggest war in Europe since 1945 - Boris Johnson

Evidence suggests Russia is planning "the biggest war in Europe since 1945", Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said.


He told the BBC's Sophie Raworth in an interview: "All the signs are that the plan has already in some senses begun."


Intelligence suggests Russia intends to launch an invasion that will encircle Ukrainian capital Kyiv, Mr Johnson said.


"People need to understand the sheer cost in human life that could entail," he said.


The prime minister was speaking from Munich, where world leaders are meeting for an annual security conference.

The latest estimates by the US government suggests that between 169,000 and 190,000 Russian troops are stationed along Ukraine's border, both in Russia and neighbouring Belarus - but this figure also includes rebels in eastern Ukraine.

Mr Johnson warned that any conflict could be "bloody and protracted", saying Russian President Vladimir Putin was possibly "thinking illogically about this" and did not "see the disaster ahead".


"I think it's vital for us all now to get over what a catastrophe it would be for Russia," he added.


He indicated that the UK and US would bring further sanctions against Russia than have been suggested before, including stopping its companies "trading in pounds and dollars" - a move that he said would "hit very, very hard".


Mr Johnson added: "The lesson of [the Russian seizure of Crimea from Ukraine in] 2014 is that you can't just let Vladimir Putin get away with it."


An invasion of Ukraine would strengthen, rather than weaken, Nato, he predicted, saying Western countries could not allow opposition forces to come to "the false conclusion that might is right".


"If [Mr Putin] thinks he's going to get less Nato as a result of this, he's totally wrong," Mr Johnson said. "He's going to get more Nato."

Ukraine: Russia plans biggest war in Europe since 1945 - Boris Johnson - BBC News

[Backspin]

Propaganda war at full retard now. American citizens are just as safe in St Pete's Russia as they are in St Pete's Florida.

US citizens got an email from the Embassy in Moscow warning us to avoid public areas due to threats of terror attacks, citing “media sources”…if anyone’s seen news reports about increased safety threats or terror attacks within Russia lmk because I have not https://twitter.com/samberkhead/status/1495493501756354568/photo/1

[david44]

SFB influencers of former KGB officers , esp counter Intel in the inner circles of the Kremlin who may benefit from a merely sanctions a war.

https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2022/02/19/alexander-gabuev-writes-from-moscow-on-why-vladimir-putin-and-his-entourage-want-war
I am a subscriber but Think paywall allows a ltd no of items per month, for those who have passed it here's the full item.


Alexander Gabuev writes from Moscow on why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

Elites have hijacked Russia and conflated the country's interests with their own
By The Economist
Updated Feb. 20, 2022 04:31 PM

---

ANYWHERE YOU turn in Moscow, it's easy to find members of the Russian elite who wonder why the West thinks that war in Ukraine is the Kremlin’s preferred course of action. Even if the Russian army managed to force Kyiv into a swift and humiliating defeat without too many casualties, the damage to Russia’s national interests would surely outweigh any potential military gains.

The problem is that the same logic was just as true eight years ago when the fateful decisions were made to annex Crimea and to stir conflict in Ukraine’s Donbas region. The fact that Russia has been able to endure the international fallout for all these years helps to explain why the region finds itself again on the brink of war.

When it comes to Ukraine, people in Moscow and the West can be forgiven for assuming that the Kremlin’s policy is informed by a dispassionate strategy derived from endless hours of interagency debate and the weighing of pros and cons. What actually drives the Kremlin are the tough ideas and interests of a small group of longtime lieutenants to President Vladimir Putin, as well as those of the Russian leader himself. Emboldened by perceptions of the West’s terminal decline, no one in this group loses much sleep about the prospect of an open-ended confrontation with America and Europe. In fact, the core members of this group would all be among the main beneficiaries of a deeper schism.

Consider Mr Putin’s war cabinet, which is the locus of most decision-making. It consists of Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the Security Council; Alexander Bortnikov, the head of the FSB (the main successor agency of the KGB intelligence service); Sergei Naryshkin, the head of Russian Foreign Intelligence Service; and Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu. Their average age is 68 years old and they have a lot in common. The collapse of the Soviet Union, which Mr Putin famously described as the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, was the defining episode of their adult lives. Four out of five have a KGB background, with three, including the president himself, coming from the ranks of counterintelligence. It is these hardened men, not polished diplomats like Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who run the country’s foreign policy.

In recent years members of this group have become very vocal. Messrs Patrushev and Naryshkin frequently give lengthy interviews articulating their views on global developments and Russia’s international role. According to them, the American-led order is in deep crisis thanks to the failure of Western democracy and internal conflicts spurred by the promotion of tolerance, multiculturalism and respect for the rights of minorities. A new multipolar order is taking shape that reflects an unstoppable shift in power to authoritarian regimes that support traditional values. A feisty, resurgent Russia is a pioneering force behind the arrival of this new order, along with a rising China. Given the state of affairs in Western countries, the pair contend, it's only natural that they seek to contain Russia and to install pro-Western regimes in former Soviet republics. The West’s ultimate goal of a colour revolution in Russia itself would lead to the country’s conclusive collapse.

Washington sees unfinished business in Russia’s persistence and success, according to Mr Putin’s entourage. As America’s power wanes, its methods are becoming more aggressive. This is why the West cannot be trusted. The best way to ensure the safety of Russia’s existing political regime and to advance its national interests is to keep America off balance.
Seen this way, Ukraine is the central battleground of the struggle. The stakes could not be higher. Should Moscow allow that country to be fully absorbed into a western sphere of influence, Russia’s endurance as a great power will itself be under threat. On a personal level, the world view of the hard men is an odd amalgam of Soviet nostalgia, great-power chauvinism and the trappings of the Russian Orthodox faith. The fact that the new elite in Kyiv glorifies the Ukrainian nationalists of the 20th century and thumb their noses at Moscow is a huge personal affront.

Why then are the people around Putin not scared about possible fallout from a new round of far-reaching economic sanctions? In their eyes, the sanctions that the West imposed to punish Russia for the annexation of Crimea and the war in Donbas were intended largely to check Russia’s rise. America and its allies would have found a way to introduce them one way or another, they were just looking for an excuse. Since 2014 such views have solidified. Messrs Patrushev, Bortnikov and Naryshkin all find themselves on the US Treasury’s blacklist already, along with many other members of Mr Putin’s inner circle. There is no way back for them to the West’s creature comforts. They are destined to end their lives in Fortress Russia, with their assets and their relatives alongside them.

As for sanctions by sector, including those that President Joe Biden’s team plans to impose should Russia invade Ukraine, these may end up largely strengthening the hard men’s grip on the national economy. Import substitution efforts have generated large flows of budget funds that are controlled by the coterie and their proxies, including through Rostec. The massive state conglomerate is run by a friend of Mr Putin’s from his KGB days in East Germany, Sergey Chemezov. In a similar vein, a ban on food imports from countries that have sanctioned Russia has led to spectacular growth in Russian agribusiness. The sector is overseen by Mr Patrushev’s elder son Dmitry, who is Mr Putin’s agriculture minister.
Similarly much-touted financial sanctions have led to a bigger role for state-owned banks which, unsurprisingly enough, are also filled with KGB veterans. If anything, further sanctions wouldn’t just fail to hurt Mr Putin’s war cabinet, they would secure its members' place as the top beneficiaries of Russia’s deepening economic autarky. The same logic is true of domestic politics: as the country descends into a near-permanent state of siege, the security services will be the most important pillar of the regime. That further cements the hard men’s grip on the country.

After two years of covid-induced self-isolation for Kremlin bosses, there is a clear tendency toward tunnel vision and a dearth of checks and balances. Russia’s interests are increasingly becoming conflated with the personal interests of the people at the very top of the system.
Alexander Gabuev is a senior fellow and chair of the Russia in the Asia-Pacific Programme at the Carnegie Moscow Centre.

[kingwilly]

Interesting article, thanks for posting it.

[sabang]

Interesting observation- another week, still no 'Russian invasion' [TM]. It has been eight years now of the US warning us of this invasion that never comes. Oh, but maybe it will be this Wednesday....

Anyway, hoping that Putin and Zelensky can talk turkey when they get their heads together. Hoping the US and it's useful idiots tone down the constant war rhetoric too, but that seems unlikely. It seems that costing the feeble Ukrainian economy $2-3 bn USD per month- according to Zelensky- just does not feature as a priority.

[Backspin]

I'm sorry I'm confused. Who is on US/UK side, who is on EU side, who is on Russian side and is there Chinese side? And what do you want? I read the last 100000000 messages but I can't still figure it out. Just land of confusion. Is this all bloody maskirovka?

Germany and France (Europe) don't want Ukraine in NATO and want to buy Russian gas. The US and UK news want Ukraine in NATO and they control NATO. And they don't want Germany to buy Russian gas.

[Backspin]

The last US ambassador to the Soviet Union just did an interview. Here is is. I haven't heard it but I assume he's got something measured to say

[HermantheGerman]

Eh.. no, Herman

Is something wrong with the presentation or the documents ?

Just old documents with no meaning.
The bottom line is that in 1990 there were no solid assurances and no negotiations about expanding NATO beyond the borders of unified Germany. Whether the eastward enlargement made sense or not is another question. This has nothing to do with a breach of word or contract.

[Backspin]

SFB influencers of former KGB officers , esp counter Intel in the inner circles of the Kremlin who may benefit from a merely sanctions a war.

https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2022/02/19/alexander-gabuev-writes-from-moscow-on-why-vladimir-putin-and-his-entourage-want-war
I am a subscriber but Think paywall allows a ltd no of items per month, for those who have passed it here's the full item.


Alexander Gabuev writes from Moscow on why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

Elites have hijacked Russia and conflated the country's interests with their own
By The Economist
Updated Feb. 20, 2022 04:31 PM

---

ANYWHERE YOU turn in Moscow, it's easy to find members of the Russian elite who wonder why the West thinks that war in Ukraine is the Kremlin’s preferred course of action. Even if the Russian army managed to force Kyiv into a swift and humiliating defeat without too many casualties, the damage to Russia’s national interests would surely outweigh any potential military gains.

The problem is that the same logic was just as true eight years ago when the fateful decisions were made to annex Crimea and to stir conflict in Ukraine’s Donbas region. The fact that Russia has been able to endure the international fallout for all these years helps to explain why the region finds itself again on the brink of war.

When it comes to Ukraine, people in Moscow and the West can be forgiven for assuming that the Kremlin’s policy is informed by a dispassionate strategy derived from endless hours of interagency debate and the weighing of pros and cons. What actually drives the Kremlin are the tough ideas and interests of a small group of longtime lieutenants to President Vladimir Putin, as well as those of the Russian leader himself. Emboldened by perceptions of the West’s terminal decline, no one in this group loses much sleep about the prospect of an open-ended confrontation with America and Europe. In fact, the core members of this group would all be among the main beneficiaries of a deeper schism.
at the Carnegie Moscow Centre.

Just imagine Putin didn't take Crimea. They would have lost their only warm water port and one of the most valuable strategic assets in Eurasia. And the whole of Crimea would have turned into a NATO aircraft carrier parked permanently in Russia's front yard.

And for what ? Would NATO and the US all of a sudden be friends with Russia and stop sanctioning it if Russia gave up Crimea ? Not a chance. The Magnitsky act sanctions came into effect in 2012. 2 years before Crimea even happened.

So in the grand scheme of things , the cost of taking Crimea was almost nothing. And supporting the breakaway regions in the east is a no brainer too. Because the hybrid war on Russia will continue regardless of what concessions they make.

[sabang]

Crimea enjoyed the useful status of being an Autonomous Republic in the former Ukrainian federation, with it's own Parliament. The Referendum to secede and reunite with Russia after Maidan passed with close to 90% of the votes cast. Frankly it was a no brainer for the people there. The Donbass Republics had/ have no such legal autonomy, unfortunately for them.

[harrybarracuda]

Crimea enjoyed the useful status of being an Autonomous Republic in the former Ukrainian federation, with it's own Parliament. The Referendum to secede and reunite with Russia after Maidan passed with close to 90% of the votes cast. Frankly it was a no brainer for the people there. The Donbass Republics had/ have no such legal autonomy, unfortunately for them.

Only an idiot like you would even consider a referendum valid when it contained no option to stay as it was, Russian troops were in Crimea, Russians (yes, Russians from Russia) were allowed to vote and Putin's mob counted the votes.

It was an illegal and fixed referendum that means nothing.

Putin annexed part of a sovereign state, and you're a fucking moron.

[sabang]

I hope you've changed your nappy little boy- your shit stinks.

[Switch]

There are so many experts on this, it’s a wonder it hasn’t been resolved much quicker. The weight of opinion against Putin is consistent, unfortunately, Putin is not.
No one has asked the Russian people what they think, because Putin can assume whatever he wants in that regard. He is a bully who is squandering resources that could be put to much better uses, correcting problems at home.
NATO is not a threat. Putins entire attitude is about an issue that has not happened, nor is it likely to, in such a tinder box. In short, he has tried to manufacture a Ukrainian status that worries him alone.
The west will not play his game, so he becomes ever more belligerent, trying to start a war that no one wants except him.

The choice of advice and assistance for the Ukraine cannot be determined by external influences. It should be Ukraines choice, not Putins! He is just a bully asking for a bloody nose.

[Latindancer]

For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “
This is why Ukraine matters :



It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world.

[AntRobertson]

For those who ask: "Where did Karen cut 'n paste this from?"

It was from somewhere like here: Masuk Facebook

[bsnub]

Well, the Three Stooges are spreading their utter shit as usual.

[tomcat]

For those who ask: "Where did Karen cut 'n paste this from?"

...*crickets*...

[Joe 90]

Not neglecting the women from the statistics...

The total sum varies, but on average, getting a Ukraine mail order wife costs you from $3,000 to $10,000. For western fellows, this sum is affordable, and they're even ready to pay more for the chance to start a fascinating romance with such an alluring woman.