Thread: Rethinking the state of Israel

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

well more than half your country did.

Well, he didn't, or are you gonna argue about this over the next few pages, again?

Can't wait for this one.

Originally Posted by stroller

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

well more than half your country did.

Well, he didn't, or are you gonna argue about this over the next few pages, again?

Why not?

did I miss anything ?

Sorry, I lost it last night - I will take a break from Issues, as I have been getting too wound up recently.

^ take it easy, stroller, don't bite with religious fanatics, their nastiness will only reflect on you

Originally Posted by raycarey

the author of this piece is not willing to go as far as i am concerning the nation state of israel. it seems clear to me that the events of the last fifty odd years demand that it be removed from its present geographic location. put it in europe, the american midwest, fuck, put it in isaan for all i care. but the absolute worst place for it to be is where it is now. give it to the highest bidder.

Ray, normally, even mentioning such a sensitive topic in the USA gets mud slung at you from all sides as an anti-Semite. But I think you're coming from a sincere place and want a better world. Years ago, I told my friends that Albanians and Israelis should swap locations to prevent 2 civilizational wars (the Balkans aren't as kumbaya as they appear either). It might take a thousand cruise ships, but it's a lot cheaper than the biological and nuclear war that is almost inevitable in the next few decades. But, sadly, do you know why our suggestions are off the table? Because deep down inside, many of the tribes on this planet simply enjoy war. Desert-borne religions like Islam and Judaism are steeped in fear and violence. Too many people in the Middle East are neurotic and miserable, acting out a collective bad karma or something. I don't get it. Thanks for opening a great topic.

^The very idea of moving Israel geographically is preposterous.
The only reason anyone lives in the Palestine is because of the economy the Zionist pioneers created. The Jew and Zionist have as much "right" to be there as anyone.
The so called "Palestinians" can't seem to get out of their own way. Their stupidity is quite beyond belief.

What about Bahrain?

Originally Posted by floorpotato

If you see another realistic alternative of how history will unfold, let us know

Well, let me ask the other way round: do you think moving an entire nation across the globe is a "realistic alternative"?

realistic alternative or logical solution?

Originally Posted by floorpotato

Agreed, but the very idea of starting a nuclear war and the destruction of Western civilization because of 6 million people who moved in 60 years ago is even more preposterous. Since Yitzak Rabin was killed, all that remains on both sides is hate. If you think we can pacify Israel's enemies with conventional armies, you're smoking some good weed. Now, in even its best case scenario, where Israel (or its proxy, the Bush administration) defeats its neighbors by unleashing nukes, the Middle East would become a radiological disaster. Israel's farmland, water tables and the Gulf oil fields would be trashed for decades. Sometimes we must choose the least ridiculous of very bad alternatives. If you see another realistic alternative of how history will unfold, let us know (and please, no drivel about fostering 'moderate Arab regimes', because they're aren't any).

Perhaps placating Iran, Syria and their proxy terrorist groups isn't such a good idea either.
If Israel is backed against the wall they are likely to make the first strike with the nuke bunker busters we've recently sold them. The radiological disaster you describe would be averted in such a scenario.

I agree there will be no mollifying the Arabs or the Persians. It will take a strong kick or three to their faces and the annihilation of their military industry.
They possess neither the resources nor the technical know how to complete in the modern world unless they change their tune about about Israel.
Israel is there to stay.

earl, why do you support the nation of israel?


btw, i believe this is precisely what ahmednejad is referring to when he states that israel will be 'wiped off the face of the map' .

Originally Posted by raycarey

earl, why do you support the nation of israel?

Because the religious fanatics at Faux News told him to. I am always amazed how some "atheists" will support Israel no matter what. Is there a contradiction somewhere how non-believers will support Israel no matter what atrocities are committed in the name of Israel ? maybe they should read the Bible and see what kind of mess Israel was 2500 years ago.

Originally Posted by stroller

Originally Posted by floorpotato

If you see another realistic alternative of how history will unfold, let us know

Well, let me ask the other way round: do you think moving an entire nation across the globe is a "realistic alternative"?

Isn't that how Israel came to be in the first place?

The difference here is that it's a group of religious people (Jews)....not an ethnic group (like British).

Originally Posted by floorpotato

because of 6 million people who moved in 60 years ago is even more preposterous.

I don't understand this? Are you saying 6 million people moved to Palestine following WWII?

That's fairly accurate. The area known as Israel now had about 400,000 Jews in 1940. Now the number is over 5,000,000.

The big problem is that the non-Jewish population is almost equal to the Jewish population (if the occupied areas are counted).

Yet, those nearly 50% of the greater population of all Israeli controlled lands are denied equal rights due to simply being non-Jewish.

the number now; or the number in 1946? Remember, a huge number of jewish Palestines came from the Soviet Union.

In fact the peak percentage of Jews/non-Jews occurred around 1970 when Jews comprised about 71% of the entire population. Now the percentage is about 53%. That is why Israel commits the atrocities that it does.

It's a pity that such a brilliant people as the Israelis are living in a permanent state of hostility. No more statesmen like Ben-Gurion and Rabin to be found, just right-wing, arrogant, belligerant supremacists. Some bunker busters and hi-tech drone warplanes won't snuff out their many hostile neighbors. A return to their 1967 borders, some compensation to displaced Palestinians and a very high wall might. Then the Arabs can revert to doing what they do best, slaughter each other. Of course, I wouldn't really like to see Jews pack up and leave for Tasmania or wherever. But if Israel continues its current policies, relocation is the only logical alternative to a life of perpetual war.