Thread: Rethinking the state of Israel

mao say dung OwnED and DONE !!!

Originally Posted by MrG

The Israelis steal people land,

Heh..it were their land to begin with...

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Heh..it were their land to begin with...

You don't mean the time God gave it to them, do you?

Do the Jews have the deeds signed by Mr Omnipresence?
Or is it just something they thought up?

It's OK boys. The Nazis couldn't see the absurdity of their "thinking" either, being blinded by hatred and all. It might not be "pure" stupidity, so maybe there is hope.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

The Nazis couldn't see the absurdity of their "thinking" either, being blinded by hatred and all.

absolutely, so can't the Israelis, hence the conclusion they have become the same. It really doesn't matter which side is "better", they are both wrong.

Getting back to the title of the thread, Rethinking the State of Israel, just why should anyone support the right of a chronic and unapologetic breaker of international law, an aggressive imperialist war monger, a terrorist against its neighbors and ships at sea in international waters trying to deliver humanitarian goods to the people Israel holds in its Gaza ghetto. The post below is just one new reason to ask just why is this piggy little country worth all the trouble it creates?

Israel Rebuffs U.S. on East Jerusalem Building
ByETHAN BRONNER
Published: July 19, 2009

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejected Sunday an American call to hold off on a planned Jewish housing development in East Jerusalem, saying Israel’s sovereignty over the disputed city could not be challenged. State Department officials had raised concerns over the project with Israel’s new ambassador to Washington, Michael Oren, during discussions last week on a range of issues. The American officials suggested that going ahead with the development now would cause problems in negotiations toward a two-state solution.
“I would like to re-emphasize that united Jerusalem is the capital of the Jewish people and of the State of Israel,” the prime minister said. “Our sovereignty over it cannot be challenged; this means — inter alia — that residents of Jerusalem may purchase apartments in all parts of the city.”
Israeli officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the delicacy of the matter, said the Netanyahu government had gone public with the issue to try to pre-empt further American efforts to stop Jewish building in East Jerusalem. Mr. Netanyahu noted in his statement that there were Arabs living in the predominantly Jewish western part of the city, adding, “We cannot accept the idea that Jews will not have the right to live and purchase in all parts of Jerusalem.”

Israel captured the eastern part of Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day war. It annexed East Jerusalem, which contains sites holy to Jews, Christians and Muslims, as well as many Palestinian neighborhoods, and built a series of Jewish neighborhoods in and around it to solidify its claim. It has also built scores of West Bank settlements.
As Washington seeks to help create a Palestinian state, it has challenged Jewish settlements in both areas and demanded a freeze in further building. Israel has been seeking a compromise on the question. The Obama administration’s Middle East envoy, George J. Mitchell, is expected here in a week for more meetings on the issue.
The East Jerusalem development in question, to be made into a 20-unit complex, was bought by a Miami-based businessman, Irving Moskowitz, in 1985. He has long supported Israeli and Jewish housing in East Jerusalem. From 1987 to 2002, he rented the building to the paramilitary border police. Recently the municipality granted permission for the housing development to proceed.
The property is in the neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, a predominantly Palestinian area that also has foreign consulates and Israeli government buildings.
At Sunday’s weekly cabinet meeting, the head of the Shin Bet security services, Yuval Diskin, said Hamas, the Islamist movement that rules in Gaza and opposes Israel’s existence, has been buying property in East Jerusalem and broadening its base here and that the Palestinian Authority had set up an intelligence network aimed at preventing Palestinians from selling their property to Israelis.
The chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, told Israel Radio that instead of defending the Moskowitz development, Mr. Netanyahu should be preparing Israel to make peace. “He knows very well that there will never be peace between Palestinians and Israelis without East Jerusalem being the capital of the Palestinian state,” Mr. Erekat said.

The US has used the term 'Regime Change' as somewhat of a mantra in recent history.

Back up position admittedly, but could well be timely to start some medium term planning for a regime change in Israel.

If the US wishes to effect this, it merely has to pull the purse strings and military/security co-operation & supply. The Israeli people will take care of the rest.

^ The US may well wish to but are more concerned about the Zionist lobby in USA effecting its own regime change at home there.

Excellent editorial from Haaretz in Israel, I'll just copy the concluding paragraph:-

Obama has internalized what his predecessors refused to understand: the traditional supporters of the Israeli right are growing old, or losing their relevance. They are giving way to younger, liberal forces who identify with Obama's values. In the "best" case, Netanyahu's incitement against the "self-hating Jews" will do to them what his whispered comment in the ear of Rabbi Kaduri "those leftists are not Jews" did to Israelis a decade ago - it turned them against him.

Akiva Eldar / What Netanyahu wants from Obama's 'self-hating Jews' - Haaretz - Israel News

Most Jews in Israel are not Settlers or other Right wing bigots. Obama will be talking to them directly soon, I hope.

The Israeli lefties are the only one worth saving in that POS of a country,

They should have been pre-empted and invaded for failing to comply with all those UN resolutions,

it's a rogue state per everyone definition

What would be helpful, at least as far as getting American political pressure to bear is if the American Press would report what is going on over there besides rockets into or out of Gaza. When Israel stopped and boarded a ship in international waters and kidnapped a number of it's passengers (one of them a Congresswoman...or perhaps former Congresswoman) that were trying to take medical and other supplies to Gaza, not a word was heard on any of the channels that I saw, and I make it a point to watch a bunch. Occassionally they'll do a piece on Israeli settlers, but they treat them with such kid gloves. Not the same for "terrorists" out of Gaza trying to reclaim their homes--they're always presented as the problem, not Israil.

^ Wouldn't have anything to do with the overwhelming Jewish control of the US media? Control the media and you control the peoples minds. Control the people and you control the government.

jewish control of us media - Google Search=

^ I think it has more to do with the fact that all those Christian babies that the Jews have sacrificed over the years have finally begun to pay off. Who'd've guessed? Most American people, simple souls that they are, will always instinctively support a democratic, relatively liberal state like Israel over a group of people who if given their political head will create a state much like all the Arab states around the region. You can take that to the bank. It doesn't much matter that the Elders of Zion control their minds. One has to wonder how you guys managed to escape the ubiquitous mind control thing. Just lucky? Or somehow special? I'd guess 'special'. They have schools for that now. Too bad, eh?

Not everyone swallows the popular media output unquestioningly. Unfortunately only a minority though. USA will never cross Israel, because the Jewish controlled media in US can make or break governments. The tail is certainly wagging the dog now.

^
Don't be so sure. If you lump people that way, you've lost. Israel has the largest Peace Movement per capita (I believe...subject to verification) than any other nation.

I just never got into any of the old Jewish Conspiracy thing, and I've never seen any meaningful evidence to support it.

Took a while to put this in a particular thread.

Soldier rarely make such comments about policy, but when Patreus did, the ADL (Anti-Defamation League) The ADL responded.

The Anti-Defamation League - for Israel.

ADL vs. Petraeus - Ben Smith: ADL vs. Petraeus
March 18, 2010

ADL vs. Petraeus

The Jewish Anti-Defamation League — which has been aggressive in defending Benjamin Netanyahu this week — took an unexpected jab at David Petraeus today for his "dangerous and counterproductive" suggestion that the conflict in the Middle East, and the perception of American favoritism, make it harder for the U.S. to work in the region.

Gen. Petraeus has simply erred in linking the challenges faced by the U.S. and coalition forces in the region to a solution of the Israeli-Arab conflict, and blaming extremist activities on the absence of peace and the perceived U.S. favoritism for Israel. This linkage is dangerous and counterproductive.

The subtext here is that critics of Israel's government have begun making the case that the necessity for a harder line on Bibi is a military one, and citing commanders in the region as allies. This seems to be a warning shot across Petraeus's bow that, if he even hints publicly at that view, he's diving into the kind of public debate soldiers tend to avoid.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...s.html?showall __________________

Originally Posted by Milkman

the perception of American favoritism, make it harder for the U.S. to work in the region.

He is only stating the obvious. He uses the word "perception" to describe the feelings of the Arab middle east. No statement the policy is wrong. Jewish Anti-Defamation League, being a bit stupid here.

Check out this:


Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini

Originally Posted by crippen

The main reason that the Jews have trouble is that they refuse to fit in with locals:- they are gods people,they do not, as a rule,interbreed with the locals and 'disappear'as a race.Nearly all other countries are a mix of all different races and over the centuries,individual stock gets all mixed up.UK has Saxons,Norse,French,Vikings,Irish,and all sorts of others,but the Jews kept apart and refuse to assimilate.

,,they did before WW2 and that sent shock waves through the jewish hierarchy .All sorts of CRAZY stories went around that hitler was paid to exterminate as many jews as possible for the greater good. Yes, before WW2 jews and christians got married. there were many crazy stories about jews and there still are. That they are God's chosen people !!!!. That really is jing jing crazy.

Jews are not a race, only an ethnic group.

Israeli racism, at least when I was there in the 70s, is not restricted to the indigenous Arabs, it is just a clearer distinction. Actually, the lighter skinned European Jews who immigrated to the area, the Ashkenazi, held superior "racist" attitudes realative to the Sephardic Jews indigenous to the area.

For those that think Israel would give up it's policy of stealing land unless it has a peace agreement that includes recognition of the State of Israel, here's a little history that pokes a hole in that old lie.
What was the Fahd Plan of 1981 and Fez Initiative of 1982?

...The Fahd Plan, proposed in 1981, was an eight point proposal to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict and give the Palestinians an independent state. It received a mixed reception in Arab capitals, because it implicitly recognized Israel, but found support among European countries, anxious to secure their oil supplies. The US, at that time, was more interested in what became known as the Reagan Plan that kept Jordan in place as the sovereign in the West Bank.

The elements of the plan were familiar, and loosely based on UN Resolutions 242and 338: Israel to withdraw from 1967-captured territories, including East Jerusalem (but not the whole city), dismantling of settlements, recognition of the PLO as the Palestinian representative, establishment of an independent Palestinian State with Jerusalem as its capital, and secure guarantees of peace. Fahd's plan was not popular at home with the Saudi intelligentsia, middle class, and clergy who were strongly critical of any proposal that recognized Israel.

At the Twelfth Arab Summit Conference, held in Fez, Morocco September 9, 1982, the League of Arab States adopted a version of the Fahd plan, which became known as the Fez Initiative....

Still, there was optimism in Washington. Vice-President George Bush said the Fez resolution meant implicit Arab recognition of Israel. Secretary of State Shultz thought the Fez summit could be a "genuine breakthrough," and added: "There might be an implied recognition of Israel. I hope that is so." This mood faded after theIsraeli expansion of their incursion into southern Lebanon in mid-September 1982 that led to a temporary cooling of relations between Israel and the US.

Israel rejected the Fez Initiative because it made all the usual demands of Israel but did not have anything new to provide for Israel's security. Still, it did represent a shift in Arab policy by a) its implicit recognition of Israel, and b) the possibility of negotiating a peace agreement of some sort, this a considerable change from the "three no's" of the Khartoum Resolution of 1967. Fez thereby opened the door, a little, to future negotiations and peace initiatives.

Instead of working with the plan, Israel scuttled it with an incursion into Southern Lebanon. From the link above:

Israel justified its breech of the cease-fire (negotiated by US Ambassador Philip Habib in 1981) by citing the attempted assassination of the Israeli ambassador in London, continuing PLO cross-border attacks on the Galilee settlements, and a build-up of PLO armaments and troops in South Lebanon.

Slightly abbreviated. Whole article at http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_fahd_1981.php

"Meanwhile, the US is reportedly considering abstaining from a possible UN Security Council resolution against Israeli settlement expansion in East Jerusalem. The US usually blocks Security Council resolutions criticising Israel. "

BBC News - Israel's Netanyahu downplays tensions with US

This will be a first if USA has the balls to go through with it.