Thread: Islam Ctr Planned Next to Ground Zero

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by larvidchr

a muslim prayer room/space/mosque whatever you want to call it supersedes in importance any other function in the building

Well thats a sudden change in the goal posts now isn't it?
Before, all the "anti's" were vociferously claiming it to be most definitely a Mosque.
Now that it has been shown not to be- because it will not be consecrated, well all of a sudden that doesn't matter any more. It's got a prayer room (2 actually) in the basement, so thats all that matters now. Not the 14 storeys above ground, open to people of all faiths and nationalities, not the hoop courts, gyms, meeting rooms, restaurants etc.
Of course, pretty much every international airport in the world (including Tel Aviv ) has a Muslim Prayer room too. The World Trade Center had a Prayer room as well, and so does the existing Park 51 building for that matter. There are a few in lower Manhattan.

The arguments against the Park Place development have been exposed as pure hot air. Not a Mosque at all, not at GZ, neither even in the WTC- rather on a side street two blocks north (to the garment district) and then a walk along seedy Park Place. The Board is multidenominational- Christians, Jews & Moslems. Open to all, and backed by the local community. There is no special 'membership' for Moslems or anything like that- if a Bulgarian Chess club wants to meet there, it just has to book a meeting room. The design looks rather nice too- gotta larf at the attempts to have the decrepit old coat factory listed as a "heritage building".

The funniest thing now would be to ramp up that 'celebrity dutch auction', see what some Right wing publicity whore might be goaded into shelling out for the existing, semi derelict dump. That just might appeal to the trading instincts of the Muzzies- never give a sucker an even break and all that. Of course they'll just use the windfall to put up a much grander community center nearby, or heck maybe even two. I think thats termed a Pyrrhic victory.

Doesnt matter.
If them Muzzies are setting it up, it has to be a monument praising the terrorist attack on 9/11. No other conclusion even to be considered. And then to extrapolate on that narrow minded bigoted conclusion, --- it has to be stopped at any cost, even in contradiction of the law and the US constitution.

Sure seems to be some wonderful patriots over there in USA. Wonder how long its going to be before they start nailing up Muslim Americans on burning crosses?

Originally Posted by Panda

Sure seems to be some wonderful patriots over there in USA. Wonder how long its going to be before they start nailing up Muslim Americans on burning crosses?

Nothing that radical (yet) - the building just won't get built is all...

The manufactured controversy seems to be dying down a bit anyway, but perhaps i'm being premature with election season coming up.

I put it to anyone who has even basically familiarised themselves with the facts about this place, not to mention Imam Rauf & the Cordoba Foundation- and still resolutely opposes it, then you might as well be honest with yerself. Your problem ain't really with the utterly non- 'Ground Zero Mosque' when it comes down to it, your problem is with Islam, or maybe just Islamic immigration.

Originally Posted by Dug

You know what Bin ladens objectives are.

I don't normally post in issues but I'll have a go at this one.

He like millions of others around the world wants the Israelis to come clean and get the fvck out of Palastine and the Americans to keep their noses out of it?

^
Hmmm...define "come clean"?

You mean leave their homeland?

Head off to the Ovens once more?

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by Dug

You know what Bin ladens objectives are.

I don't normally post in issues but I'll have a go at this one.

He like millions of others around the world wants the Israelis to come clean and get the fvck out of Palastine and the Americans to keep their noses out of it?

Except he bombs buses, trains and air-planes in our home-countries far away from Israel, to convey that message killing innocents going about their lives. Further more he also wants you and me to become if not Muslims then subservient to Islam and live in society's ruled by Islamic law. The Al Qaeda agenda is not restricted to their problems with Israel.

You, me our familys are personally Al Qaeda targets, as citizens of countries on his hate list, remember that.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Hmmm...define "come clean"?

I just posted a long reply and lost my connection and I will be fvcked if I'm going to re-typ my original responce but.......in a nutshell.

Stop hiding behind broken promises and America's skirt and if they believe Palestine/ West Bank is legally/ historically/ ethically theirs go and take the fvcker back using whatever means they feel appropriate.

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Except he bombs buses, trains and air-planes in our home-countries far away from Israel, to convey that message killing innocents going about their lives.

There is not a person on this earth that is more disgusted about what has gone on over the last 30 years then me.

All these Bin Ladens of this world are products of their hatred towards what they perceive as the West (particularly America) unfairly supporting what they believe is a race of people who have stolen and continue to steal the Palestinian's land and whilst doing so killing it's citizens.

Whether they are right or wrong has nothing to do it in my opinion but why doesn't the west just let them get on with it and settle this long running war and not insist on these absolute ridiculous peace talks which everyone knows is just stalling the inevitable.

Let the strong survive and the weak can suit themselves,,,,,,,,,,,,

Good night and God bless...........

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Imam Rauf

The slander campaign (and death threats) against him is particularly regrettable and reprehensible, because Rauf is not only the sort of Moslem we would like to be encouraging to live in our societies, he is the sort of Citizen we would all like to have too.

Originally Posted by larvidchr

a very nice shariah import agenda

But no, he's a sharia loony after all.
It seems puerile to repeat the same stuff I've pointed out over and over again- his condemnation of Islamic terrorism, his moderate Sufism, his personal friendship with prominent non-Moslem people who vouch for him etc.

The US State Department has been sponsoring him to speak to Moslem audiences around the world since the Bush administration. You honestly think they would do this with a 'sharia import'? You honestly think State wouldn't have a lot of information on this guy? Come on now.

So if you still have a problem with him, it comes down to you having a problem with Islam. But I think that is pretty obvious now that you have said virtually every international airport in the world is a 'Mosque' for all intents and purposes.

Originally Posted by Aussie Tigger

Until the constitution is changed to only provide freedom of speech and democracy to those who are deemed worthy of it ie those who truly swear allegance to the USA its ideals and principles threads like this will continue forever until of course the Muslims have enough votes to start banning construction of all other faiths places of worship. Better late than never to intervene and put in place steps to stop this happening but it would mean a war on home soil for all non Muslim countries who have allowed so many to settle in their countries even though they do not accept our way of life. It is ridiculous how easy it has become for foreigners to gain full citizenship in our countries. But try to do that in their countries and see if you have the same success and benefits.enuf said.

Muslims account for less than 2% of US citizens. Its going to take em a while to breed up enough numbers to take over the place.

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by Dug

You know what Bin ladens objectives are.

I don't normally post in issues but I'll have a go at this one.

He like millions of others around the world wants the Israelis to come clean and get the fvck out of Palastine and the Americans to keep their noses out of it?

Except he bombs buses, trains and air-planes in our home-countries far away from Israel, to convey that message killing innocents going about their lives. Further more he also wants you and me to become if not Muslims then subservient to Islam and live in society's ruled by Islamic law. The Al Qaeda agenda is not restricted to their problems with Israel.

You, me our familys are personally Al Qaeda targets, as citizens of countries on his hate list, remember that.

^Rubbish.
Bin Ladens stated aim is to free Muslim countries from political and military interference by foreign countries. If you can find any evidence of Bin Laden wishing to take over the rest of the world and force non-Muslims outside Islamic countries to live under Sharia law please enlighten us all.

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by Dug

You know what Bin ladens objectives are.

I don't normally post in issues but I'll have a go at this one.

He like millions of others around the world wants the Israelis to come clean and get the fvck out of Palastine and the Americans to keep their noses out of it?

Except he bombs buses, trains and air-planes in our home-countries far away from Israel, to convey that message killing innocents going about their lives. Further more he also wants you and me to become if not Muslims then subservient to Islam and live in society's ruled by Islamic law. The Al Qaeda agenda is not restricted to their problems with Israel.

You, me our familys are personally Al Qaeda targets, as citizens of countries on his hate list, remember that.

^Rubbish.
Bin Ladens stated aim is to free Muslim countries from political and military interference by foreign countries. If you can find any evidence of Bin Laden wishing to take over the rest of the world and force non-Muslims outside Islamic countries to live under Sharia law please enlighten us all.

"Rubbish" oh no Mate

Look it up in the Quran Panda you do not get it anymore official than that, it is the stated holy duty of every Muslim to seek world domination for Islam, especially the Islamist fanatical fascists with roots in Wahhabism like Osama Bin Laden, and the Taliban, takes that bit quite literally.

It is preached by the Imams in the Al Qaeda Madrasses in Pakistan well documented, it is preached by radical Imams in numerous Mosques around in the whole world, documented by hidden video recordings and quite openly spoken from radical Imams with proven terrorist links.

This is something I don't need to prove, you can look it up anywhere and educate yourself.

This is really basic knowledge about radical Islamists and Islam, the fun part with Osama Bin Laden is that he is so radical fanatic that the radical Wahhabists in Saudi have been forced to "officially" denounce him, if they had not it would have been an open declaration of war against the non Muslim world, something the Saudi Royal family is not prepared to do openly, instead they semi secretly finance the Islamist propagation by building Mosques all over the world and support Western based radical Islamist organisations with money.

It is of-cause the hypocritical irony that the US/West pretends to be friends with Saudi, if there "ever" was a place we should wage embargo/war it is there. But the steady supply of the black gold makes our Politicians participate in the immoral disgusting sucking up to the horrible oppressive regime in Saudi.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Imam Rauf

The slander campaign (and death threats) against him is particularly regrettable and reprehensible, because Rauf is not only the sort of Moslem we would like to be encouraging to live in our societies, he is the sort of Citizen we would all like to have too.

Originally Posted by larvidchr

a very nice shariah import agenda

But no, he's a sharia loony after all.
It seems puerile to repeat the same stuff I've pointed out over and over again- his condemnation of Islamic terrorism, his moderate Sufism, his personal friendship with prominent non-Moslem people who vouch for him etc.

The US State Department has been sponsoring him to speak to Moslem audiences around the world since the Bush administration. You honestly think they would do this with a 'sharia import'? You honestly think State wouldn't have a lot of information on this guy? Come on now.

So if you still have a problem with him, it comes down to you having a problem with Islam. But I think that is pretty obvious now that you have said virtually every international airport in the world is a 'Mosque' for all intents and purposes.

So you point to the moderate statements from Rauf like it is carved in stone, but blankly refuses to acknowledge the Man's own words when they don't fit with your private subjective evaluation of Rauf, tsk. tsk. Sab

Stressing the non Muslims that believe in Rauf is fine, if you also mention that a majority of New Yorkers and Americans is against the Rauf Mosque being built at that location, and that many equally as respected as the supporters of the mosque, including for-instance high ranking politicians like the Democrat "Senate majority leader" Reid oppose the Mosque at that location. So it is not just a few radical anti Islam nutters like you would like to present it.

There can be no doubt that the state do have a big secret file on Rauf Sab, but being a closet radical Islamist is not against the law, just like Governments support around in the world of mistakenly perceived moderate Muslim organisations is a matter of record, something that the last few years have become clear in England and the US as examples, and where said organisations no longer enjoy the same unwavering official support.

Originally Posted by Panda

Muslims account for less than 2% of US citizens. Its going to take em a while to breed up enough numbers to take over the place.

They are breeding, immigrating, and they are growing.

Islamic "issues" in America will be problematic in the future. Just like the UK and Europe.

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by Dug

You know what Bin ladens objectives are.

I don't normally post in issues but I'll have a go at this one.

He like millions of others around the world wants the Israelis to come clean and get the fvck out of Palastine and the Americans to keep their noses out of it?

Except he bombs buses, trains and air-planes in our home-countries far away from Israel, to convey that message killing innocents going about their lives. Further more he also wants you and me to become if not Muslims then subservient to Islam and live in society's ruled by Islamic law. The Al Qaeda agenda is not restricted to their problems with Israel.

You, me our familys are personally Al Qaeda targets, as citizens of countries on his hate list, remember that.

^Rubbish.
Bin Ladens stated aim is to free Muslim countries from political and military interference by foreign countries. If you can find any evidence of Bin Laden wishing to take over the rest of the world and force non-Muslims outside Islamic countries to live under Sharia law please enlighten us all.

"Rubbish" oh no Mate

Look it up in the Quran Panda you do not get it anymore official than that, it is the stated holy duty of every Muslim to seek world domination for Islam, especially the Islamist fanatical fascists with roots in Wahhabism like Osama Bin Laden, and the Taliban, takes that bit quite literally.

It is preached by the Imams in the Al Qaeda Madrasses in Pakistan well documented, it is preached by radical Imams in numerous Mosques around in the whole world, documented by hidden video recordings and quite openly spoken from radical Imams with proven terrorist links.

This is something I don't need to prove, you can look it up anywhere and educate yourself.

.

I refer to your earlier quote where you stated --
" Further more he also wants you and me to become if not Muslims then subservient to Islam and live in society's ruled by Islamic law."

Your literal interpretation of the Koran and/or the rantings of some radical Muslim clerics have little to do with Bin Ladens stated aims of driving out foreign military and political control over Muslim countries.

Do a Google search and look up Bin Ladens stated aims of his terrorist war against the western invaders. You wont find anywhere a claim by Bin Laden that he wants to take over the whole world. In a nut shell, what he wants to achieve is to oust the imperialist influence of foreign nations like USA, Russia and UK from ME Muslim countries.

Extrapolating the rantings of some other radical Muslim clerics and your own literal interpretation of some passages from the Koran does not in any way at all support your claim that Bin Laden wants to take over the western world.

You are getting sucked into the anti-Muslim paranoia there Larv. Take a step back and look at the factual evidence rather than extrapolations and suppositions fraudulently presented as fact.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (and likely Iran) are nothing more than a battle for control of those ME governments by foreign powers for geopolitical reasons. Such is the reason for the resistance and resort to terror tactics in the face of overwhelming military force. Its got absolutely nothing to do with any imagined plan by Muslims to take over the world as is being put forward by paranoid individuals such as yourself.

Originally Posted by Tunaka

Originally Posted by Panda

Muslims account for less than 2% of US citizens. Its going to take em a while to breed up enough numbers to take over the place.

They are breeding, immigrating, and they are growing.

Islamic "issues" in America will be problematic in the future. Just like the UK and Europe.

So when is it that you estimate Muslim Americans will have sufficient numbers at the ballot box to taker over political control of the country and oust all the other religions?

First it was the blacks then the Communists, now its the Muzzies turn to be the big bogey man threatening the free American way of life.

The robber barons controlling the military industrial complexes just love paranoid people like you who react on unfounded fear rather than rational thought.

[
Except he bombs buses, trains and air-planes in our home-countries far away from Israel, to convey that message killing innocents going about their lives. Further more he also wants you and me to become if not Muslims then subservient to Islam and live in society's ruled by Islamic law. The Al Qaeda agenda is not restricted to their problems with Israel.

You, me our familys are personally Al Qaeda targets, as citizens of countries on his hate list, remember that.[/quote]


^Rubbish.
Bin Ladens stated aim is to free Muslim countries from political and military interference by foreign countries. If you can find any evidence of Bin Laden wishing to take over the rest of the world and force non-Muslims outside Islamic countries to live under Sharia law please enlighten us all.[/quote]

Does this give you a clue?
“Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Koran 2:191
“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123
“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Koran 9:5

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by Thaiguy

[


Does this give you a clue?
“Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Koran 2:191
“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123
“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Koran 9:5

Your hysterical quotes are indeed amusing. If the 2.5 million Muslims in USA actually believed that shit (as you do), there would be a civil war going on with millions dead.

I don't find them at all amusing and I dare you to try and get a laugh out of an Imam if you told him how you thought the words of Allah and Mohammed were so hilarious?

Now lets get back on track. Can you find anywhere in any of Bin Ladens Quotes that his stated aim is to take over the world? No, of course you cant! Bin Ladens stated objective is simply to drive the foreign invaders namely (USA and their lap dogs, UK) out of Middle East Muslim countries. His methods, -- terrorism and guerrilla warfare are not considered sporting to us in the west, but nevertheless have proven relatitively effective.

Turning the spotlight off the real threat to citizens of the west (which is the radicalization of Muslims due to invasion of their countries and their terrorist threat) and onto peaceful fellow citizens who happen to be of the Muslim faith is a rather bizarre knee jerk reaction of the weak minded and paranoid.

What a crock of crap - next you'll be telling me the fundamentalists are not in charge?

I can imagine that the likes of you, Larv and Tunaka would only be happy when all western Muslims are interned in concentration camps surrounded by razor wire, dogs and armed guards.

Yes,.......
I think for the safety of myself and my family that would be best!

^ Then don't live in a country that the US might want to attack.

Originally Posted by Thaiguy

I dare you to go up to Moslem and tell him to his face how laughable you find the words of Allah and Mohammed!

Next you'll be trying to convince me that there are moslem "moderates" that don't believe in all the instructions of the Koran and that the "fundamentalists are not in charge ? - dream on.

Missing the point there yet again Thaiguy. What is laughable is your hysterical assumption that all Muslims are intent on killing or converting all those who do not believe in their faith.

Second point. Radical fundamentalist minorities exist in every religion. Doesnt mean that your Muslim neighbour down the street is planning to kill you and your family if you dont convert. Believing such rot is well, -- hysteria, if not bordering on paranoid.

10 or 20 years ago, before the USA came to loggerheads with the Middle Eastern Muslim resistance over foreign interference in the politics of ME countries, types like you didnt have a problem with the Muslim neighbour living down the street.
Now all of a sudden when we are at war, all Muslims are considered evil and a threat to civil society in the minds of people like you. Settle down and get a grip man. There aint Muslims hiding in every doorway ready to jump out and cut your throat. The friendly fellow serving you in any shop is far, far more likely to be a Muslim.

[quote=Panda;1575818]

Originally Posted by Tunaka

Originally Posted by Panda

Muslims account for less than 2% of US citizens. Its going to take em a while to breed up enough numbers to take over the place.

They are breeding, immigrating, and they are growing.

Islamic "issues" in America will be problematic in the future. Just like the UK and Europe.

So when is it that you estimate Muslim Americans will have sufficient numbers at the ballot box to taker over political control of the country and oust all the other religions?

I already answered this question, but my post was deleted. What is going on here?

I've never stated the muslim American with "take over political control of the country."

First it was the blacks then the Communists, now its the Muzzies turn to be the big bogey man threatening the free American way of life.

For you maybe, but not me.

The robber barons controlling the military industrial complexes just love paranoid people like you who react on unfounded fear rather than rational thought.

The military industrial complex is a sinister and powerful force in the US and should be challenged and dismantled in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Tunaka

I already answered this question, but my post was deleted. What is going on here?
.

Yes. Mods at it again steering the subject in the direction of their own personal persuasion. Some of my replies deleted also.