Thread: Islam Ctr Planned Next to Ground Zero

Originally Posted by mc2

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The majority of Americans are against this mega mosque at Ground Zero

Doesn't reflect too well on Americans in general if they think the actions of a few represent all Muslims.

Back up. Placing a Muslim Mega Mosque at Ground Zero is, bottom line, a clear provocation...end of story.

There is lots of mosques in the US, it is not like this case is one of general discrimination, like the civil-rights for Blacks back in time.

Living peacefully together is not always easy when you have to accommodate everyones wishes you must politically apply (saying in Danish "det muliges kunst") translated it would be "the art of the possible"

The US constitution is a wonderful paper, but with so many other rules the implementation is critical and execptions/bending a bit, is almost unavoidable Norton, I'm sure you could come up with examples of that. The right to own and carry arms is one Issue that comes to my mind.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by mc2

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The majority of Americans are against this mega mosque at Ground Zero

Doesn't reflect too well on Americans in general if they think the actions of a few represent all Muslims.

Back up. Placing a Muslim Mega Mosque at Ground Zero is, bottom line, a clear provocation...end of story.

Garbage. Plenty of Muslims working, living and passing through that area. They have a right to have a place of worship in their own design as much as anyone else.

Its the intolerant, arrogant and overly sensitive objectors that should be brought into question.

As I know, Patterson ain't running again. As I said before, it's the issue of not angering the major populace. People are nice as long as you don't anger them. This is not playing nice and folks see it as a prize of conquer, not as a hand outstretched in friendship.

Originally Posted by mr Fred

How far from ground zero would this community centre have to be before you deemed it acceptable?

Ozark Mtns or Mecca. Actually, Tuktoyaktuk would be OK -- interesting to see if the mozzies could survive a summer Ramadan tho.

Originally Posted by mr Fred

Originally Posted by larvidchr

There is lots of mosques in the US, it is not like this case is one of general discrimination, like the civil-rights for Blacks back in time..

Sadly you're wrong.
There are many documented incidences of attacks on mosques in the US.
You only have to see comments on this board to see it's Muslims they are against, not the mosque.
The objections are against the constitution of the US and are totally unfair in every respect.

I was refereeing to general Government legislative discrimination Fred.

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by mr Fred

Originally Posted by larvidchr

There is lots of mosques in the US, it is not like this case is one of general discrimination, like the civil-rights for Blacks back in time..

Sadly you're wrong.
There are many documented incidences of attacks on mosques in the US.
You only have to see comments on this board to see it's Muslims they are against, not the mosque.
The objections are against the constitution of the US and are totally unfair in every respect.

I was refereeing to general Government legislative discrimination Fred.

It's there.

Rep. Peter T. King, R-N.Y., told radio talk host Sean Hannity in an interview Monday no American Muslim leaders are cooperating in the war on terror.

"I would say, you could say that 80-85 percent of mosques in this country are controlled by Islamic fundamentalists," he said. "Those who are in control. The average Muslim, no, they are loyal, but they don't work, they don't come forward, they don't tell the police … ."

Between that and the general 'war on terror' only concentrating on Muslims (and ignoring US terror and support for terror), the last US administration started a trend against Muslims that was hardly there before 9/11.

Originally Posted by Norton

, it's about the right to practice ones religion.

Right and Islam is a religion of peace!

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Originally Posted by mr Fred

How far from ground zero would this community centre have to be before you deemed it acceptable?

Ozark Mtns or Mecca. Actually, Tuktoyaktuk would be OK -- interesting to see if the mozzies could survive a summer Ramadan tho.

So the proximity of the community centre to ground zero has nothing to do with it.
That's cleared up your argument about the offered alternative site.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Right and Islam is a religion of peace!

Can't say. Really don't know much about the details of the religion. I only go by personal experience. Have been acquainted with a few hundred Muslims over the years and nary a one has punched, stabbed, shot or in anyway threatened me.

Was shot a couple of times by some Buddhist in the 60s. Buddhists not very peaceful IMO.

According to the Constitution, it is just fine to open a gay bar next door to a mosque.

Now that the legalities are out of the way, would this be deemed a provocation or insensitive, albeit legal, and what is the status of the person that firebombs it?

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by mc2

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The majority of Americans are against this mega mosque at Ground Zero

Doesn't reflect too well on Americans in general if they think the actions of a few represent all Muslims.

Back up. Placing a Muslim Mega Mosque at Ground Zero is, bottom line, a clear provocation...end of story.

I agree, but I think a more accurate word is trophy.

On second thoughts, I guess it could be both, depending which side one is on.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by larvidchr

I'm sure you could come up with examples of that.

I already have. The "Patriot Act".

Passed through congress nearly unopposed. Doesn't make it right, unavoidable or constitutional, IMO.

Ya, that a-hole Lincoln didn't follow the Constitution either.

"Inter arma silent leges" was a Latin phrase much heard in the North during the Civil War. It translates roughly as, "during war, the laws are silent."
Habeas corpus is another Latin phrase, meaning "(you should) have the person," and it's part of a longer phrase, habeas corpus ad subjiciendum, meaning "(you should) produce or have the person to be subjected to (examination)."
...

Article 1, section 9 of the Constitution, restricting powers of Congress, forbids the suspension of habeas corpus except, "when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public safety may require it."

...

On April 27, 1861, about a week after the Fort Sumter surrender, President Lincoln ordered Winfield Scott, then head of the nation's military, to arrest anyone between Washington and Philadelphia suspected of subversive acts or speech, and his order specifically authorized suspension of the writ of habeas corpus.

Habeas Corpus in the Civil War


Guess that's why Bush had the Patriot Act passed.

Originally Posted by mr Fred

There are many documented incidences of attacks on mosques in the US.
You only have to see comments on this board to see it's Muslims they are against, not the mosque.
The objections are against the constitution of the US and are totally unfair in every respect.

Got some linkies for your claims? We ain't against the mozzies; it's the location of this mosque. How about attacks against churches and especially synagogues in the US? Lots of those, too.

Originally Posted by keda

According to the Constitution, it is just fine to open a gay bar next door to a mosque.

Again, nothing to do with constitutional legality. Constitution protects the right of citizens to practice the religion of their choice. If local authorities deny permission to build simply because they don't like a particular religion, it is an unconstitutional act. Here in lies the "dilemma" local authorities have in the case of the ground zero mosque. The only way to comply with constitutional law is to grant permission to build no matter how "insensitive" it may be to some. We can be sure, the mayor of New York is well aware of the legal implication of denying a permit.

Originally Posted by keda

Now that the legalities are out of the way

Legality all up to local zoning laws same as location of any bar, pornoshop and the like.

Originally Posted by keda

what is the status of the person that firebombs it?

Once a gay bar a mosque, church or any other establishment has local approval and built, anyone destroying the property will go to the slammer.

I'd rather open a Tony Roma's rib joint next door.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I'd rather open a Tony Roma's rib joint next door.

Works for me but doubt many walk in customers from your neighbor unless you go halal like some of the KFCs in England.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Originally Posted by mr Fred

There are many documented incidences of attacks on mosques in the US.
You only have to see comments on this board to see it's Muslims they are against, not the mosque.
The objections are against the constitution of the US and are totally unfair in every respect.

Got some linkies for your claims?

Yes.
Christians return to preach outside Bridgeport mosque - Connecticut Post

About a dozen members of Texas-based Operation Save America had confronted worshippers at the mosque last Friday, yelling what mosque members described as hate-filled slogans.

White Supremacist Sentenced in Hate Crime Threat to Kill Muslim Woman, Baby :: Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.)

Seattle PI News reports on the sentencing of a white supremacist Eric Lee Garner to 1 and 1/2 years in prison for assault threatening to use a knife on a Muslim woman and her 6 month old baby.

And a pile of others.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

We ain't against the mozzies; it's the location of this mosque.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Originally Posted by mr Fred

How far from ground zero would this community centre have to be before you deemed it acceptable?

Ozark Mtns or Mecca. Actually, Tuktoyaktuk would be OK -- interesting to see if the mozzies could survive a summer Ramadan tho.

Make your mind up. One post wants the community centre in the middle of nowhere or outside the US but you claim to have nothing against "mozzies".

What's that smell?


Ah, bullshit

^ Like I said, it's the location of the mosque that offends. You asked for alternative sites, I gave you a few.

Originally Posted by mc2

The location of the mosque offends those of the same mentality as white people in the 1950s when a black lady sat in a seat on a bus and didn't vacate it.
.

Ner. That's just the location that needed to be changed.
The slave barn or Africa would have been fine.
Bigotry really doesn't change very much except for the target.

A point not mentioned as yet here is respect for the 3K folks who were incinerated at ground zero. You don't build a theme park on hallowed ground and that's what this mega mosque would be...

Respect for the folks that died should start with a truth finding mission into what actually happened that day.

Shyam Sunder, IST lead investigator for WTC7, when asked in 2006 why WTC 7 collpased, he said “[T]ruthfully, I don’t really know. We’ve had trouble getting a handle on building No. 7.”
http://nymag.com/news/features/16464/index6.html

That's just not good enough. There is a mountain of real scientific evidence, enough to warrant an new public re-investigation in 911, starting with an investigation into the security firms of these buildings.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Did he say blowing up the new mosque?

Not sure who the "he" is you are referring to, perhaps you should look closer to home.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I will support the people who wait until this mosque is built and then blow it up.