Ukraine war mega thread

[Bettyboo]

The war is terrible for Ukraine - that's the reality of a massive military bombing your cities year upon year.

The war is also terrible for Russia, as their citizens lives get worse month upon month, and their best friends/allies are Iran and North Korea (with part friendships from China, South Africa and India who are looking to stab Russia in the back at the first opportunity). Russia had a chance of developing into a global partner, the opposite has happened, and it'll take them decades to recover. At the same time, the massive brain drain out of Russia is benefiting many countries around the world; here is Korea, top performing Russian students are at record high and now entering the workplace.

[Takeovers]

The war is terrible for Ukraine - that's the reality of a massive military bombing your cities year upon year.

Yes, but they know, losing the war would be worse.

[Takeovers]

True, when did Russian elected politicians/military leaders suggest they would defeat Ukraine by/as of December 2023 ?

Indeed, they didn't. They intended to defeat Ukraine early 2022.

[Bettyboo]

Yes, but they know, losing the war would be worse.

You're right, so they'll fight on, and Russia will never win. Russia will have gains and losses, Russia will deplete their resources, send average Russians to the frontline as bullet stoppers and also kill lots of Ukrainians and destroy lots of places along the way. It may take a long time, but it's Putin's demise.

[bsnub]

Think your needle got stuck.
you are wrong on every level.

Tell us about the next game changer, I’m in need of a laugh

Says the bozo who has been making a fool of himself in this thread from the very start. Three months into the war you were posting shit like this...

QUOTE=Iceman123;4408184]Says the man who claims Ukraine is winning[/QUOTE]

Yep I am on the side of reality, and unfortunately Ukraine are losing.

Now when are you going to accept the reality that Ukraine are not winning.

the Ukraine has virtually no chance against a superior force in numbers and equipment.

Who’s winning now on planet Bsnub?

here on earth Ukraine are losing for sure.

I will repeat to try to get it to sink in “Russia is winning”

What a fucking clown.

[bsnub]

Indeed, they didn't. They intended to defeat Ukraine early 2022.

In three days according to pootin. The "lightning strike" into Kyiv.

[Neverna]

Maybe so

How's the other side doing ?

Gotta know

Kinda how war works

The New York Times quotes some Ukrainian marines talking about fighting at the Dneiper River. It's not going well for them at that location.

[Neverna]

The next Ukrainian counter-offensive could change things though.

[david44]

http://database.earth/population/by-country/2024 Russian Federation pop 143,957,078-475,051 Ukraine 37,937,8201,035,655

[Norton]

143,957,078-475,051

37,937,8201,035,655

Ukraine economy...$173 billion
Russian economy...$1.862 trillion

As I have said since day 1, numbers matter!

Will and means determine winners of war. Russia has a huge means advantage.

[OhOh]

that's the reality of a massive military bombing your cities year upon year.

The Ukraine military had been bombing and shelling their own citizens for years prior to Russia becoming involves.

Russia had a chance of developing into a global partner,

With whome and when were they discussing this "partnership"?

[OhOh]

DECEMBER 17, 2023 BY M. K. BHADRAKUMAR


Putin: “Odessa is a Russian city”

"At the year-end news conference on Thursday lasting four hours, Russian President Vladimir Putin made some key remarks on the conflict in Ukraine which throw light on the likely trajectory of the war through 2024. To be sure, Russia will not accept a “frozen conflict” that falls short of realising the objectives Putin had laid out at the commencement of the special military operations in February last year.

Putin stated: “There will be peace when we achieve our goals… Now let’s return to these goals – they have not changed. I would like to remind you how we formulated them: denazification, demilitarisation, and a neutral status for Ukraine.”

He spelt out denazification and demilitarisation as work in progress while leaving out the crucial question of a neutral status for Ukraine, a notion which the collective West outright rejects while pressing ahead with its intervention in newer forms despite the failure of Kiev’s months-long counteroffensive. Ironically, the accent in the revised western narrative is to create a strong resilient defence industry in Ukraine eventually with western technology and capital to ward off any Russian military threats in future.

On denazification specifically, Putin said that during the negotiations in Istanbul last year in March, Kiev showed receptiveness towards the idea of legislating against the spread of extremist ideology, but that lies buried in the past. As for demilitarisation, that idea also never caught on as Ukraine began receiving weaponry “even more than what was promised by the West.”

Therefore, Russia is left with no other option but to keep destroying the Ukrainian military capability as the core of the demilitarisation process. But Putin believed that certain parameters can still be negotiated, and, in fact, “We actually agreed on them [with Ukrainian negotiators] during the Istanbul talks; although these were thrown out later, we managed to reach agreement.” The alternative to reaching an agreement on demilitarisation is to “resolve the conflict by force. This is what we will strive for.” However, to this end, Putin ruled out another mobilisation as already “there will be about half a million people [in the war zone] by the end of this year.”

These remarks bear the hallmark of a statesman speaking from a position of strength who is conscious of it, too. Putin asserted that Russian forces are “improving their position almost along the entire line of contact. Almost all of them are engaged in active combat. And the position of our troops is improving along [the entire line of contact.]” Putin conveyed no willingness to compromise with the US and EU.

Significantly, Putin said that the southern part of Ukraine has “always been Russian territory… Neither Crimea nor the Black Sea has any connection to Ukraine. Odessa is a Russian city.” This is an ominous statement implying that Russian operation may after all extend to Odessa which is on the western side of the Dnieper and even further westward along the Black Sea coast to Moldova that renders Ukraine a land-locked country. A prolonged conflict is in the cards.

On the contrary, the reports from the US media quoting American officials convey the impression that there is no willingness to throw in the towel at the present stage. That is of course predicated on the belief that Russia will be hard put to realise its objectives and by the end of 2024, the tide of war can change and Russia may be compelled to compromise. Thus, a new strategy is being worked out between the US and Ukrainian military that can be executed by the early part of 2024 with the American accent on holding the territory that Ukraine controls as of now and digging in.

The New York Times reported that Ukrainian military subscribes to a “forward policy.” The Pentagon is stationing a three-star general in Kiev with a view to “stepping up the face-to-face military advice it provides to Ukraine.” This could be the beginning of deployment of American military advisors to Ukraine to oversee the war, which will put the Pentagon in a direct role in the management of the operations from both the tactical as well as strategic perspectives.

Meanwhile, the final word is not yet spoken by the US Senate on the Administration’s demand of $61 billion as additional funds for Ukraine. The likelihood is that the senate will eventually pass the bill since there is a big groundswell of support among Republican lawmakers for the war effort. The Administration is driving home that Russia has an “imperial” agenda toward NATO countries and vital US interests are at stake in preventing Russia from winning the war.

Interestingly, in a related development two days ago, Congress approved legislation that would prevent any president from withdrawing the US from NATO without approval from the Senate or an Act of Congress. Equally, Europe is also circling the wagons and taking a long-term view that Russia’s scale-up of arms production to sustain its operations in Ukraine poses a real threat to Europe, especially to the Baltic states, Georgia and Moldova. NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg last week warned that “If Putin wins in Ukraine, there is real risk that his aggression will not end there.”

The German Defence Minister Boris Pistorius echoed that sentiment when he said on Saturday that Europe must ramp up its security and defence capabilities to respond to the threat Russia poses, as the US will likely reduce its involvement on the Continent in the coming years and increasingly turn its attention to the Pacific region in the next decade. As he put it, “This isn’t just sabre-rattling. Dangers could lie ahead at the end of this decade.”

The message from the European Council meeting in Brussels last Friday is also that circumventing Hungary’s opposition, EU leaders are navigating a pathway to ensure Ukraine will still get its €50 billion aid package to help prop up its hollowed out economy — if necessary, by taking the radical step of sacrificing EU unity and providing the money on a bilateral basis. The EU leaders are expected to reconvene at the end of January or early February to unlock the issue.

On Friday, Ukraine’s foreign ministry released a statement lauding the opening of EU membership negotiations and voicing optimism about the €50 billion aid package from Brussels. The tough talk notwithstanding, Russia too must be sensing that the EU will ultimately find a way somehow to solve the financial question. For the present, though, the deadlock in Brussels and Washington on aid has generated an air of uncertainty, which is bad optics for Kiev and plays into the Russian narrative.

All in all, Putin’s tough remarks on Thursday factors in that the US isn’t going anywhere but stays put in Ukraine and the Biden administration’s game plan is to revamp the war strategy to put it on a stronger footing and make it sustainable through the period ahead till the November 2024 election.

Kremlin’s hope that US support for Ukraine is on the wane seems misplaced. Curiously, spokesman Dmitry Peskov added in good measure in an interview on Friday with broadcaster NBC News that Putin would prefer an American president who is “more constructive” toward Russia and understands the “importance of the dialogue” between the two countries. Peskov added that Putin would be ready to work with “anyone who will understand that from now on, you have to be more careful with Russia and you have to take into account its concerns.”

Between now and the presidential election in March in Russia, domestic politics will be hotting up. After Putin’s re-election for a fresh 6-year term as president, which is widely expected, by the time the new government is formed, the campaign for the US election will have accelerated and it is a safe bet that Ukraine war will be on auto-pilot with the priority almost entirely lying on averting any serious embarrassment to Biden’s reelection bid.

Suffice to say, staving off a military defeat in Ukraine and keeping the stalemate on track will be the Biden administration’s singular aim through 2024. The big question is whether Putin would “cooperate” or have some surprises in store. Peskov has begun looking beyond the Biden presidency."

Putin: “Odessa is a Russian city” - Indian Punchline

[helge]

Zelenskyy loses popular support
Ukrainians' confidence in their president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, has fallen from 84 percent to 62 percent since December last year, according to a poll by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology (KIIS).


But almost all Ukrainians, 96 percent, have maintained confidence in their military – in this area, confidence has remained stable over the past year. In fact, Ukrainians have more confidence in the Supreme Commander of Ukraine's Armed Forces, Valery Zaluzhny, than the President.--88 % of all respondents

[helge]

EU announces 12th package of sanctions against Russia



Mads Vestergaard




The EU has today announced another package of sanctions against Russia. This is the 12th of its kind and the new package has a particular focus on imports and exports to Russia.

Among other things, the package includes a ban on diamond imports from Russia, writes the Council of the European Union in a press release.

"This ban applies to diamonds originating in Russia, diamonds exported from Russia, diamonds in transit through Russia and Russian diamonds when processed in third countries," the Council said in a statement.

The package also includes a new ban on imports of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG).

[helge]

The Surat Diamond Bourse, which overtook the Pentagon to become the world’s biggest office complex.
Source: Morphogenesis




A new office complex that surpasses the Pentagon in size is set to officially open on Sunday in Surat, cementing the western Indian city’s ambitions to become the world’s diamond capital.
The Surat Diamond Bourse in Gujarat state, which covers a constructed area of 6.7 million square feet (620,000 square meters), became the world’s largest office complex when it was completed in July at a cost of 32 billion rupees ($384 million)............More

World's Biggest Office Opens in India's Diamond Hub Surat - Bloomberg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wel well well

[helge]

"This ban applies to diamonds originating in Russia, diamonds exported from Russia, diamonds in transit through Russia and Russian diamonds when processed in third countries," the Council said in a statement.

I think someone forgot to ask the ones in charge.

In a certain 'quarter' of Antwerp, where no business is conducted on Saturdays, there will be disatisfaction.

Funny shit, innit ?

[helge]

There is no alternative to mobilization: Budanov cited the reason



Photo: Head of the Main Directorate of Intelligence of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Lieutenant General Kyrylo Budanov (Vitalii Nosach, RBC-Ukraine)© RBC-Ukraine



As of today, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have over a million soldiers.

Without mobilization, no recruitment will meet these needs, this was stated by the Head of the Main Directorate of Intelligence of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Kyrylo Budanov, according to the discussion panel 2024: Challenges and Perspectives.


Budanov explained that all those who wanted or were ready to fight have either already encountered the full-scale invasion of the Russian Federation in various units of the Defense Forces, or they joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine within the first six months.

Due to objective reasons, according to the head of intelligence, there are now few of those people remaining in the ranks of the Defense Forces.

"This is a fact, and it needs to be understood and recognized.

With such volumes, no recruitment will cover our needs without mobilization.

This is a similar problem to ammunition because the quantities are enormous.

The total strength of the Armed Forces of Ukraine now amounts to (the name is somewhat conditional in quantity because we are approaching state secrets) one million one hundred thousand people.
No recruitment can cover such volumes. Only mobilization," noted the head of the Main Directorate of Intelligence.

However, he added that in the context of mobilization, another question arises - motivation.

"However many people we mobilize, whether forcibly or non-coercively, using some tricks or following the norms of legislation, the combat effectiveness coefficient will be almost zero.


What is happening lately needs to be openly recognized as well. Therefore, it is not even conceivable to think that we can do without mobilization.
We cannot," emphasized Budanov.

He explained that currently, in Ukraine, there are not so many people willing to do anything, let alone go to war.
"And this is the current situation. There will be losses, and this number needs to be maintained constantly," he added.

Recruitment to the Armed Forces of Ukraine
Earlier, the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine launched a recruiting program for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It allows any willing Ukrainian to choose the unit and vacancy where they want to serve.

Overall, the process is similar to employment.

The Ministry of Defense also explained how the salary for the recruited military personnel to the Armed Forces of Ukraine would be formed.

The Ministry of Defense signed contracts with companies such as Robota.ua, Work.ua, and Lobby X for recruitment.
For more information on what the approved concept of the Ministry of Defense entails, you can read it at the provided link.

There is no alternative to mobilization: Budanov cited the reason (msn.com)

[helge]

^

Hard to believe his....frankness.

[bsnub]

The New York Times quotes some Ukrainian marines talking about fighting at the Dneiper River. It's not going well for them at that location.

If you buy anything that the NYT says, then you might as well just get your information from the ruzzian MOD.

https://twitter.com/darko_ua/status/1736492282101039240

[OhOh]

The Ukraine offensive has failed -
What´s next?

"Österreichs Bundesheer Colonel Markus Reisner analyses and explains the causes and consequences of the Ukrainian summer offensive which, according to Ukrainian officials, ultimately failed after more than 190 days.

What was the initial situation, how should the Ukrainian attacks be assessed from a tactical and operational perspective and what strategic conclusions can be drawn."



An update from the previous June video.

[OhOh]

Another grim report.

NATO IS A MESS AND THE RUSSIANS ARE WINNING.
Equipment and Manpower in Desperately Short Supply

STEPHEN BRYEN

DEC 20, 2023

Stephen Bryen is a former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense and is a leading expert in security strategy and technology. Bryen writes for Asia Times, American Thinker, Epoch Times, Newsweek, Washington Times, the Jewish Policy Center and others.

"The British are about to sign a Naval Security Pact with Ukraine, doubling down on their support for the sinking Zelensky-led country.

Pardon the pun.

Meanwhile Germany is upping its commitment of arms for Ukraine, even though its arms stockpile is practically empty.


Both the UK and the Germans are emptying their wallets and their arsenals while the US is trying to do the same thing.


Meanwhile the Washington Times, in an article by Bill Gertz, reports that Representative Mike Gallagher (R-Wi), who is the chairman of a House Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party, has come up with some novel ideas to help Taiwan make use of otherwise obsolete weapons in the US arsenal, mostly because getting new weapons right now is nearly impossible.

Gallagher says that "Recent war games simulating conflict with China over Taiwan revealed that the U.S. would run out of long-range precision-guided bombs and missiles less than a week into the conflict." Bill Gertz reports that the Pentagon has a backlog of more than $2 billion worth of weapons that Taipei purchased, held up by defense industry delays. Taiwan currently is waiting on 400 Harpoon missiles and 100 Harpoon launchers that the Pentagon announced as a sale over three years ago and which may not reach the island until 2029.


The key point is that it will take five more years (8 years total) to deliver Harpoon missiles to Taiwan. It is even worse for other war stocks, such as 155mm and 120mm ammunition.


The weakness and problems of the American defense industrial base pale into insignificance against the shortages of manpower that affect most of our NATO allies and the US.


Germany's small army is lacking new recruits. Like the US, Germany has a volunteer force, but things are getting so bad the German government is thinking about some kind of conscription system. With the current German government already rapidly losing political support, trying to get the Bundestag, Germany's parliament, to vote in any conscription system would be political suicide. ..... "

Continues here:

NATO IS A MESS AND THE RUSSIANS ARE WINNING

[cyrille]

^

substack

[helge]

substack

Note to Ohoh:

You should abstain from posting anything other than from the non-biased and non-warmongering BBC, in case that our oracle Cyrille should surprise everyone with one of his rare and much awaited and appreciated one word' visits.

Get it ?

[OhOh]

^

Get it ?

I use misskit's "rules".

[cyrille]

Note to Ohoh:

You should abstain from posting anything other than from the non-biased and non-warmongering BBC, in case that our oracle Cyrille should surprise everyone with one of his rare and much awaited and appreciated one word' visits.

Get it ?

You really are a pickled little b*tch these days.