Ukraine war mega thread

[sabang]

And this, utterly predictable-


Nord Stream 2: Russia tells Europe ‘welcome to brave new world’ of soaring gas prices after pipeline sanctions


Russian government official has warned that Europeans could now face sky-high prices for gas after Germany announced that the certification of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline would be suspended.

“Welcome to the brave new world where Europeans are very soon going to pay €2.000 for 1.000 cubic meters of natural gas,” Dmitry Medvedev, who was Russia’s president between 2008 and 2012 and is now deputy chair of the security council of the Russian Federation, wrote on Twitter.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/nord-stream-2-russia-tells-europe-welcome-to-brave-new-world-of-soaring-gas-prices-after-pipeline-sanctions/ar-AAUaxbC

[Switch]

Everyone can tell how desperate Putin supporters are, when a Trump quote is used to support any legitimacy that remains for Russias action and threats.

[sabang]

Trump is the ex-Potus. He might well be the next one too. That doesn't tickle your funny bone? I'm sure they're pissing themself in Russia!

[Hugh Cow]

The putin arselicker can't help himself.

Look on the positive side. It does save you from looking for the editorial opinion on R.T.

[misskit]

Sabang, you may be interested in this long read. Tis a good one from The New Yorker.


Inside the High-Stakes Fight to Control the Narrative on Ukraine


As Putin searches for a false pretense to invade Ukraine, the Biden Administration has moved to release, in real time, what it knows of Russia’s war plans.

Inside the High-Stakes Fight to Control the Narrative on Ukraine | The New Yorker

[sabang]

I read it MK (not that long!)- cheers. Had to giggle when the article insinuated that 'maybe' if the Russians didn't invade on a particular day as the histrionic anglo press said (several times), it was because they had publicised it. Yeh right.

I love all this selective outrage. Northern Ireland, Scotland, Quebec hold secession Referendums- no outrage. Crimea does- following the violent overthrow of the elected national government no less- Outrageous!! Is that because the vast majority of Crimeans (89%) voted to secede I wonder- only successful secession Referendums are considered outrageous? Na, Russophobia of course.

And now we're being told that Russia has 'invaded' the self declared republics of Donetsk and Luhansk- Outrageous!! But they were invited in by the local governments- which have been in place since 2014, and the vast majority of the population is happy to have them there to help assure their safety. Also of course, they have declared themself independent of post Maidan Ukraine, and asked to reunite with Russia- rebuffed. But at least now diplomatically recognised by Russia, so it could send peacekeepers in.

The contrast with another actual, ongoing invasion and colonisation could not be more extreme. I mean not only is this occupied nation a recognised State, not only do the vast majority of the population strongly want the invaders and colonisers out, but the US government is subsidising it! I am talking of course about the Israeli invasion and colonisation of Palestine. Where is the outrage there?

It would seem the people of Palestine, Luhansk, Crimea & Donetsk have one thing in common- the US apparently considers them subhuman, untermensch- their right to self determination is non-existent. But the Israeli Jews are above the law, ubermensch presumably.

Neither do I detect much outrage about your ongoing and illegal presence in Iraq and Syria (and the local people most definitely do not want you there), or the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.
Selective outrage indeed. What happened to this-


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Preamble to the Declaration of Independence

[Norton]

If the Ukrainians are indeed genuinely concerned about a Russian invasion, they are stupid to keep themselves in such an obvious defensive losing position- it is little short of suicidal frankly.

So speaketh our commander in chief General Sabang.

[Norton]

why have we now got another thread running on Ukraine

3 and sure more to follow. Ridiculous innit.

[harrybarracuda]

The Ukrainian army and neo-Nazi militias are occupying some land

No they're not, they're in their own country you fucking moron.

[sabang]

^^ Maybe give them some lessons norts. If big bad Vlad is really gonna have a poke at some or all of Ukraine outside the Republics, they are sitting ducks.

[OhOh]

the Berlin Wall came down, and most of the former Warsaw Pact countries, decide to join Europe.

A solution was agreed verbally and written and then the western powers renegades on their previously agreed, detailed, recently published, secret promises.

Western SOP.

Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine

Russia has not invaded Ukraine.

I predict China in very short order,

Not so far.

[Troy]

^ Which treaty was that?

[panama hat]

Can the mods merge all Ukraine threads into on so sabang, Backspit and OhWoe can focus better

[OhOh]

May settle for the for lines of status quo ante last week , then all of Donbas and so on and so on.

Some Ukrainians, noticing what Russia has delivered the two republics, may desire similar. The Ukrainian government should hold new elections to determine its people's opinions.

Let the people express their desires democratically, publicly.

a Trump quote is used to support any legitimacy that remains

As opposed to the current stair stumbling, POTUS's mumblings?



Bring onto the field the Europe visited, reserve game winner:

Harris, Harris, Harris ....

[OhOh]

n 5 years you'll have paid it 3 times

Some have suggested the Russian's construction costs have already been paid off, by the US$ value decline and the US$ increase in speculated, international/spot, oil and gas prices. Which for unknown reasons most of the Europeans buyers prefer. Whether their citizens prefer the higher costs, is not specified.

No mention of SWIFT ejection!

No mention of sanctioning on Russian oil and gas companies, exports to NaGastan!

As NaGastan has said previously, let's, "fuck the EU". NaGastan allies and partners beware. The writing is on the walls, worldwide.

NS2 being "paused", by Germany as opposed to "delayed", by Germany. Allegedly, "a bit of soft barking to please the masters in Washington".



The Putin Plan Profits, it seems.

One hopes Russia doesn't sanction McDonald's:

[OhOh]

Kneel and bow down to your dictator.

Obviously you have not been to many western sporting evens to witness this act daily.

No they're not, they're in their own country you fucking moron.

Reading the MINSK agreements the west's representatives and Ukraine government signed may be an education for you.

The Birth of the Baby Twins: Russia’s Strategic Swing Drives NATOstan Nuts

Pepe Escobar

February 22, 2022

“You don’t believe in the principle of indivisible security? Fine. Now we dictate the security rhythm.”

"History will register that the birth of the baby twins – Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics – only a few hours before 2/22/22, was simultaneous to the birth of the real, 21^st century multipolar world.

As my columns have stressed for a few years now, Vladimir Putin has been carefully nurturing his inner Sun Tzu. And now it’s all in the open:

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”

The thunderbolt was months in the process of being meticulously polished. To paraphrase Lenin, who “created Ukraine” (copyright Putin), we did live many decades in only these past few days. It all started with the detailed demands of security guarantees sent to the Americans, which Moscow knew would be rejected. Then there was the Russia-China joint statement at the start of the Winter Olympics – which codifies not only the strategic partnership but also the key tenets of the multipolar world.
The culmination was a stunning, nearly one hour-long



by Putin shortly after the Russian Security Council live session deliberating on the request for independence by the DPR and the LPR

( is a condensed version.)

A few hours later, at an emergency UN Security Council meeting, Russian Permanent Representative Vasily Nebenzya precisely outlined why the recognition of the baby twins does not bury the Minsk agreements.

The baby twins actually declared their independence in May 2014. In 2015 they signed the Minsk agreements as one of the interested parties. Theoretically they could even be back within Ukraine if Kiev would ever decide to respect the agreements, which will never happen because the U.S. has vetoed it since 2015. Moreover, the people of Donbass do not want to be subjected to a regime harboring neo-Nazis.

As Nebenzya outlined,

“I would like to remind you that at the time of the conclusion of the Minsk agreements, the LPR and DPR had already declared independence. The fact that Russia today recognized it does not change the composition of the parties to the Minsk agreements, since Russia is not one (…) Another thing is that the Minsk agreements have long been openly sabotaged by Ukraine under the auspices of our Western colleagues. Now we see that many colleagues want to sign that the Minsk agreements are dead. But this is not the case (…) We are still open to diplomacy, but we do not intend to allow a new bloody massacre in the Donbass.”

And here’s the clincher, directly addressing imperial support for the killing of ethnic Russians in Donbass:

“The main task of our decision [on recognizing independence] was to preserve and protect these lives. This is more important than all your threats.”

There you go: Responsibility to Protect (R2P), a concept invented by the Americans to launch wars, used by Russia for preventing one.

That certified nullity, German chancellor Scholz, deriding Putin’s characterization of a genocide in Donbass as “laughable”, was a decisive factor in the birth of the baby wins. Putin, in his address to the nation, especially took time to detail the Odessa massacre:

“We cannot but shudder when we remember about the situation in Odessa, when people were burned alive (…) And those criminals who did this, they are not punished (…) But we know their names, and we will do everything to punish them (…) and to bring them to justice.”

What about China?

Geopolitically, in Eurasian terms, two huge questions stand out: the role of the CSTO and the response from China.

If we look at the Article 19, Chapter VI of the

CSTO charter

, we learn that,

“any state sharing the goals and principles of the Organization and being ready to undertake the obligations containing in this Charter and other international treaties and resolutions effective within the framework of the Organization may become a member of the Organization.”

That would open the door for the baby twins, as soon as they have finalized all the bureaucratic endeavors pertaining to new, independent nations, to request CSTO membership. Incidentally, CSTO secretary-general Pashinian has already gone to Moscow to discuss it.
China is a way more complex proposition. One of the key tenets of Beijing’s foreign policy is the fight against separatism – embedded in the foundation of the SCO. So Beijing cannot possibly recognize the baby twins, or what would amount to Novorossiya – yes, Putin did pronounce the magic word – before Kiev itself does or, a serious possibility, completely disintegrates.

The Foreign Ministry so far has been extremely cautious. Wang Yi has reiterated “China’s long-standing position that the legitimate security concerns of all countries must be respected, and the purposes & principles of the UN Charter must be upheld.”
Further on down the road, presumably after some serious exchanges between Wang Yi and Lavrov, China can always find myriad ways to unofficially help the baby twins – including advancing BRI-related connectivity and sustainable development projects.

As for Kiev disintegration, that’s directly linked to Moscow demanding the immediate stop of the mini-blitzkrieg against Donbass, otherwise they will bear full responsibility. Yes, regime stalwarts will be hunted and punished – complete with a possible War Crimes Tribunal. No wonder all sorts of oligarchic/political rats, big and small, are scurrying away, to Lviv, Poland and the UK.

The Munich effect

The intervention of all 12 members at the Security Council session, combined with Putin’s address to the nation was the stuff of gripping geopolitical drama. Putin’s body language and the look in his eyes testified to the immense gravity of the moment – and it all came to the forefront when he embarked in a concise history lesson spanning a century.

Barely containing his anger at the countless ways Russia has been vilified by the West, and taking no prisoners when referring to communism, what mostly stood out was the clear-cut rendition of the insurmountable antagonism between the Anglo-American islands and the civilizational Heartland – or the clash between maritime powers and land powers. That Eurasia classic was the bulk of his exposition: the recognition of the baby twins took less than three minutes.

The



, this past weekend, had made it all so explicit. Munich, as terrifying as it was in terms of a congregation of headless chickens posing as eagles, at least confirmed everything is in the open.
The enemy is Russia. NATO infinite expansion – to outer space – is against Russia. And then we had a parade of add-on threats: no disarmament in Eastern Europe, cutting off the Russian economy from the EU, end of Nord Stream 2, Ukraine in NATO, world order built on “universal liberal values”.
Munich spelled out No Compromise Whatsoever – which was exactly what Putin, Lavrov, Patrushev and co. expected, the warmongering rhetoric burying any meaningful discussion of migration, inflation, cyber wars, the European energy crisis and, of course, the only thing that matters for the MICIMATT (military-industrial-congressional-intelligence-media-academia-think tank complex, as defined by Ray McGovern): let’s milk this Eurotrash lot for untold billions in new contracts, let’s isolate Russia, let’s destroy Nord Stream 2 to sell them our ultra expensive LNG, let’s keep them on a leash – forever.

So actually it’s not even war against Russia: the $30 trillion-indebted Empire with a woke military attached simply could not afford it. Not to mention the certified freak out in case they receive a phone call from

Mr. Khinzal and Mr. Zircon

: cue to the spectacular Russian display of “military and technical” superiority, hypersonic and otherwise – staged, irony of ironies, in synch with the circus in Munich.

What we have here is so lame: just a lowlife offer-you-can’t-refuse racket to be inflicted on the EU.

The Indivisible Security dance

The rabid Munich “No Compromise” show; the imperially-ordered Ukro crypto-blitzkrieg against Donbass; and the role of the

U.S. Lack of Intelligence Community

– an Andrei Martyanov-coined howler – altogether sealed the deal for the Security Council deliberations and Putin’s decision.
Considering the ideological stupidity of the current Brussels gang – Stoltenberg, von der Leyen, Borrell –, incapable of understanding even basic economics, the fact remains that the EU without Russian energy is doomed. Martyanov stresses the algorithm: Russia can afford the break up with Europe. Europe cannot. The U.S. just wants to collect. And we’re not even talking about the dire, incoming ramifications of the systemic crisis across NATOstan.

Even as Moscow plays a very long, calculated game, as it stands that does not necessarily mean that Russia will be “winning” the baby twins while “losing” Europe. Russia’s strategic swing repeatedly baffles the Atlanticist combo. The U.S. lack of intelligence community was predicting a Russian “aggression” every other day – and still is. Instead they got the baby twins as the latest independent republics of the Global South.
Even before Munich, the Ukro crypto-blitzkrieg, and the recognition of the baby twins, Moscow had again warned it may respond with “military and technical measures” to ensure its own security after the U.S. and NATO blatantly ignored key points from its proposal for a long-term European security architecture, and instead “cherry-picked” issues from a package deal.

Moscow will not let the Americans run away from the by now notorious 10-page Russian response. Putin, addressing the Stavka, had already

warned

“we are in a situation (…) where we are forced to resolve it.” Which bring us to what John Helmer niftly qualified as Russia’s black box defense. The beauty is no one knows what’s inside the black box.
Enter, once again, the “military-technical measures” that will be “reciprocal” (Putin) to what U.S. and NATOstan are already deploying against Russia. They won’t necessarily be implemented in the Black Sea, the Sea of Azov, in the airspace above Donbass, even in cyberspace. It could be anywhere – from the Syrian theater to Latin America.

Surprise! That’s what strategic ambivalence, ambiguity, or – let’s get down to the rhythm – swing is all about. You don’t believe in the principle of indivisible security? Fine. Now we dictate the security rhythm. You’re not gonna stop deploying nuclear weapons outside your territory? Fine. Here’s some reciprocity. You’re not gonna accept legally binding guarantees of our security? Fine. Meet our “military-technical” measures.

Now dance, suckers."

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/02/22/the-birth-of-the-baby-twins-russias-strategic-swing-drives-natostan-nuts/

[bsnub]

No they're not, they're in their own country you fucking moron.

Exactly. The ignorance of the Three Stooges is astounding.

[Switch]

From the Mongols to Napoleon to the Ottomans to the Germans to the Brits to the Nazis and now the Americans ;every empire of the day seems to find a reason to stage their military on Russia's western border.


Nato was flying weapons into Ukraine 24/7 -the same place that Napoleon and Hitler used to attack here-and would not write a simple security guarantee.

NATO rejects Russian demands for security guarantees in latest round of talks - ABC News

All the west needs to do, is pretend to be French and surrender to Putins demands. Then you can go away?

[HermantheGerman]

Look on the positive side. It does save you from looking for the editorial opinion on R.T.

..and maybe get him to label it with a "Warning manipulated media”

[sabang]

Help us out with your profound insight snubs- d'ya reckon Biden & Co stuffed up the Diplomacy? Do them Repubs have a point?

[HermantheGerman]

Exactly. The ignorance of the Three Stooges is astounding.

Its not worth arguing with them. You already know the answer/outcome from the start.
Its a little bit like the Olympics in the old days, you knew exactly that U.S.S.R. would win all gold medals (followed by East Germany) due to doping.

Respect for Putin, he has managed to dope the "three Judas stooges" and they don't even know it



The Russian athletes in the old days didn't have a choice, but our Judas Stooges do.

[HermantheGerman]

Before I forget, the Dictator of East Germany was also democratically elected. Its they type of voting system that the Judas Stooges keep praising here on TD.

Will they understand my post

[HermantheGerman]

The Ukrainian army and neo-Nazi militias are occupying some land east of the Line of Control- ie within the Donetsk & Luhansk republics, in clear violation of the Minsk 2 Agreement. Nice position to shell civilians from. So the short term question is what Putin intends to do about this. Will he just leave them there, or perhaps wait for them to start shelling again before taking action? Or will he issue an Ultimatum and tell them to get out- and you can certainly be sure that if they don't comply, the Russian Army will drive them out. I guess we'll know in the next few days.

The chance of outright war has obviously increased. If the Ukrainians are indeed genuinely concerned about a Russian invasion, they are stupid to keep themselves in such an obvious defensive losing position- it is little short of suicidal frankly. They are grouped roughly along the Line of Control, and in several cases over it, and any infant can see that they are ridiculously easily outflanked by Russian battle groups coming in behind them. Thus, they would be sandwiched between the forces in the republics, and the flanking forces. So just how worried are they about an invasion of Ukraine proper? The current formation is obviously offensive, and aimed vs the Republics- but there is absolutely no chance for them there now. I guess we'll see. Meanwhile, cities like Kiev, Mariupol and Kharkov are comparatively lightly defended, and effectively there for the taking. Don't tempt him!

"WARNING! Manipulated Media"

[Backspin]

War is almost guaranteed at this point considering one party has withdrawn from a 7 year long peace talks process .

Which is why this will require it's own thread

My second post in this thread. Who pulled out of Minks ? Ukraine. Who instructed Ukraine to do this ? The United States

[OhOh]

Nay problems, the NaGastani consumers will drink the Kool-Aid.

"The LNG plants will be working full speed to make that LNG that is then to be tanked across the Atlantic.

This means higher demand for US gas, which means higher prices for Americans. Enjoy the rest of the Biden Winter"