Ukraine war mega thread

[OhOh]

Russia and the United States on the verge of a second Caribbean crisis

Biden's call to Russian President Vladimir Putin doesn't affect anything - the US is just trying to buy time

A Russian report on one scenario of a planned "NATO Exercise", due to kick-off later this month.

Initial 50 % is lots of historic references.

Here is IMHO, the latter very scary 50%:

" .....

All of the above is not at all theoretical and descriptive in nature. It is this scheme that the NATO army has been practicing in the framework of exercises under the code name "Defender Europe" since 2018.

With the only difference that until 2020 inclusive (the coronavirus prevented the full implementation of the plans), the northern part of Eastern Europe was considered to be the zone of the "war games": Scandinavia, the Baltic states and Poland. The main task is to deal with the logistical cross-country capacity of this space for large masses of personnel and equipment, as well as the corresponding volumes of logistics supplies.

In the current year, 2021, "Defender Europe" will be held in the Balkans and the Black Sea region. The United States intends to transfer 20,000 of its troops by air and sea (via Greece and ports on the Adriatic) to the Balkans — to Croatia (Slunj test site), Bosnia and Herzegovina (Manjaca test site) and Northern Macedonia (Krivolak test site).

Part of the training is also planned in Montenegro, Kosovo and Albania. In Bulgaria and Romania, air defence exercises and the firing of surface-to-surface missiles will be held. A significant part of the manoeuvres of the supply units will take place in Hungary, which will serve as a deep rear of the unfolding "war".

To participate in the war game, the Pentagon allocates units from the 1st Cavalry and 82nd Airborne Divisions, as well as the 53rd Infantry Brigade from troops stationed in the United States. Plus, it is supposed to involve parts of the American army located in Europe. The European allies will attract another 11,000 personnel to the exercises.

The second difference, in addition to the general geography, is the "factor of Ukraine". The north-western direction of the Russian troops is closed quite reliably, and the prospect of a "civil war" in the Baltic states is extremely unlikely. At least in the current conditions. While in the Black Sea region there is Ukraine, in which the civil war is already in its seventh year.

I.e., the formal basic conditions for launching the "expanse of war" scheme have been created there by now. It is enough to organise some local, but loud provocation, preferably in front of TV cameras and with blood, as the process can be started. What is missing is the NATO army group, which is now preparing to be deployed under the legend of the large Defender Europe 2021 exercise.

The goal of the United States in what is happening is quite simple – to include Ukraine in the “expanse of war" without its admission to the North Atlantic Alliance. This can only be done by an explicit order.

Putting Russia in front of a fact that, as it seems in Washington, Moscow will not dare to react harshly.

In this case, Washington and Brussels will be able to "finally hear Kiev's calls for help" and come to the rescue by directly entering the bloc's troops under the slogan of supposedly protecting Ukraine from the threat of possible Russian occupation. Then you can implement the "Yugoslav scenario", when the troops of the Western alliance did not see the civil war and ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia at close range. And if Russia "does not move the tanks" after that, then it will be possible to organise a direct invasion of Western troops in the L/DPR.

In the context of the conversation between Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin, Vladislav Shurygin wrote well about this:

"My source in Kiev today threw out information about a certain "Biden plan" for Ukraine, which was announced at the meeting between Blinken and Kuleba. From this meeting Kuleba came out as if on wings and said: "I am very satisfied with the meeting with Tony Blinken and our conversation. We spent an hour calmly discussing all our key issues on the agenda.<...> If you remember, after the first phone conversation with him, I wrote that a new day will begin in relations between Ukraine and America. Today I can confidently say that the day has begun, and we are already living it confidently"

The essence of this plan consists of two points:

1. Ukraine is rapidly adopting a law allowing the deployment of military bases of NATO and the United States on its territory.

2. The United States enters into an agreement with the leadership of Ukraine on the deployment of bases here, and unilaterally places three of its bases in Ukraine. One by sea and two by land. All three airfields will be upgraded for the acceptance of all types of American aircraft, including heavy transport aircraft.

This, according to the Americans, will block the Russian plan for a large-scale military operation against Ukraine, in the event of any aggravation of the situation in Donbass. Under the cover of these bases, or rather the American military presence, Kiev will be able to carry out a phased sweep of Donbass without the fear of a Russian response.

As the source said, as part of this plan, Biden's initiative to meet with Putin and hold a summit was announced. The procedure for preparing for the meeting and discussing the agenda will allow the Russians to buy time to prepare for the adoption of the law, the conclusion of the treaty and the deployment of American troops.

In fact, the Russians should be led by the nose for six months, which is necessary for the preparation and implementation of the American plan."

Moscow understands this scenario and does not want to allow it. That is precisely why, as Russian Defence Minister Sergey Shoigu said in his speech, the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, as part of the annual check of combat readiness and the results of the winter period of planned training, checked the relocation of two combined-arms armies and three formations of airborne troops to the south-western border of the Russian Federation.

In other words, it means: we don't want a war, but we're ready for it if there will be one. According to the experience of the Zapad-2019 and Kavkaz-2020 exercises, already on the tenth day of an active operation at any point of contact, the Russian army is able to have an advantage over NATO of 7 to 1, in infantry fighting vehicles – 5 to 1, in attack helicopters – 5 to 1, in barrel artillery – 4 to 1, in jet-propelled systems – 16 to 1, in short–range air defence – 24 to 1, in long-range air defence – 17 to 1, in tactical and operational-tactical missiles - the superiority of the Russian Federation will be absolute. In terms of the pace of building up our forces, we are decidedly superior to all the NATO armies, including the American one, so it is impossible to hope to beat us in this "expanse of war" or, as they say in the Pentagon, in the framework of a "multimodal operation".

And if America does start such a game, it may very well turn out that all this "expanse of war" will eventually be under full Russian control. Regardless of any borders of NATO, the EU or any other, completely conditional, entities. It will cost everyone dearly, but do not forget that Russia is also fully ready to switch to strategic nuclear trumps. As the Russian president , "if anything, we will go to Heaven, and they will just die."

So it turns out that literally right now there is an approach to the second Caribbean crisis. Whether it takes place or not depends on whether the Pentagon, the White House and Brussels believe in Russian resolve. Last time, although literally on the very verge of a big war, they believed it. We'll see how things turn out this time. Defender Europe 2021 is scheduled for the end of May.

That's why Biden called Moscow for the second time, because after insulting the Russian president, he tried to sharply raise the stakes, but it was a complete bummer, and America has nothing to cover Russian "polite" arguments with, so they again began to delay time under the guise of new peace initiatives.

Standard North American hockey practice.

Russia and the United States on the verge of a second Caribbean crisis | Institute for International Political and Economic Strategies

[russellsimpson]

What a massive pile of utter dribble. I've rarely seen the likes of .
War mongers must war monger.
We must keep the war material manufacturers manufacturing war materials.
Life goes on.

[helge]

I do not see my post you are referring to... (strange and unusual fact...)

Freedom of speech...if the mods agree

[NamPikToot]

The troop build up has been going on for some time with c 100,000 massed and a possible build up to 175,000.

* A threat to Ukraine independence
* Russia a major energy supplier to Europe which is already low on supplies - can the EU exert any influence, i doubt it.
* NATO has not been active for years so can it act and what appetite is there given the accusation of EU member states not meeting their membership commitments
* If Ukraine falls that puts Putin right on the EUs doorstep.
* Will America actively counter the threat.


Russia Ukraine: Biden warns Russia against Ukraine 'red lines'

Joe Biden has warned that he will not accept "red lines" set by Moscow as fears mount that Russia is planning an imminent invasion of Ukraine.


The US president said he will make it "very, very difficult" for Russia to invade its neighbour.


Meanwhile, US media has reported that intelligence officials fear an invasion could begin in early 2022.


It comes as Ukraine says Russia has boosted its military at the border and amassed some 94,000 troops there.


A video call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Mr Biden to ease tensions is expected this week. The US President told reporters he is expecting to have a long discussion with the Russian leader, and warned that he will not "accept anybody's red lines".


"What I am doing is putting together what I believe to be the most comprehensive and meaningful set of initiatives to make it very, very difficult for Mr Putin to go ahead and do what people are worried he's going to do," Mr Biden said as he left for the presidential retreat at Camp David.


While Mr Biden did not set out what precise actions the US plans to take, American and Ukrainian officials warned again this week that severe economic sanctions are on the table against Russia.


On Thursday Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said the US had threatened fresh sanctions after his meeting with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken.


Why Russia is stoking border tensions with Ukraine
Nato warning over Russian build-up near Ukraine
Mr Biden's comments come as the Washington post reported that US intelligence officials fear the Kremlin is planning a multi-front offensive as soon as early next year involving up to 175,000 troops.


Officials have also reportedly seen an increase in propaganda efforts through the use of proxies and media outlets to denigrate Ukraine and Nato ahead of a potential invasion.


Ukrainian Defence Minister Oleksiy Reznikov has said that he believes the most likely timing of any Russian escalation "will be the end of January".


This week Britain's most senior military officer said "we have to be on our guard" about the potential for conflict in the region.


Gen Sir Nick Carter told the BBC that he "distinctly hoped" there would not be a war with Russia, but added that Nato would have to be ready for that eventuality.


Tensions between Russia and Ukraine are nothing new. In 2014 Russia annexed Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula and soon after started to back a separatist insurgency in Ukraine's east that has seen some 14,000 people killed in periodic fighting.


More recently, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has moved against Russian interests, slapping sanctions on a powerful friend of President Putin and banning broadcasts by three pro-Russian TV stations.

Russia Ukraine: Biden warns Russia against Ukraine '''red lines''' - BBC News

[helge]

If Ukraine falls that puts Putin right on the EUs doorstep.

Isn't Russia neighbor to 6 EU countries already ?

Or there abouts

Oops

Norway is only a NATO member

[russellsimpson]

The US president said he will make it "very, very difficult" for Russia to invade its neighbour.

Russia has zero intentions of invading Ukraine. This is all a question of the continuing propaganda Zelensky employs to get his nation into NATO which hopefully will never happen. That would amount to severe aggression on the part of the west.

So fuck all happening here folks. Typical American war mongerers doing typical war mongering stuff.

I'd personally like to see a referendum held soon in the east with a sixty percent threshold required for separation.

Fuck of Zelensky. Stick to stand up comedy.

[helge]

I'd personally like to see a referendum held soon in the east with a sixty percent threshold required for separation.

Good idea

And with a delegation of american observers.

They are avid vote counters

[pickel]

Russia has zero intentions of invading Ukraine.

Did you think that about Georgia and Crimea as well?

[harrybarracuda]

Did you think

Not something he's good at.

[NamPikToot]

so nothing then really

Readout of President Joe Biden’s Call with European Allies

Today, President Emmanuel Macron of France, Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, Prime Minister Mario Draghi of Italy, Prime Minister Boris Johnson of the United Kingdom, and President Biden of the United States held a call. The leaders discussed their shared concern about the Russian military build-up on Ukraine’s borders and Russia’s increasingly harsh rhetoric. They called on Russia to de-escalate tensions and agreed that diplomacy, especially through the Normandy Format, is the only way forward to resolve the conflict in Donbas through the implementation of the Minsk Agreements. The leaders underscored their support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. They agreed that their teams will stay in close touch, including in consultation with NATO allies and EU partners, on a coordinated and comprehensive approach.

Access Denied

[OhOh]

The EU’s Strategic Balance Sheet – Well, Good Luck With That…

Alastair Crooke December 6, 2021

How on earth did the EU get into such a strategic mess? The frank answer is by being unreflective, Atlanticist ‘bots’, Alastair Crooke writes.

“The United States will be hosting the online Summit for Democracy on 9 and 10^th December, 2021, empowering itself to define who is to attend the event and who is not, who is a ‘democratic country’ and who is not … this will stoke up ideological confrontation and rift in the world, creating new ‘dividing lines’”: So write (jointly) the Ambassadors of Russia and China accredited to Washington.

“China and Russia firmly reject this move … [they] call on countries: to stop using ‘value-based diplomacy’ to provoke division and confrontation”, the Ambassadors warn.

Yet, this is clearly what Biden intends (strategic polarisation). Team Biden is aiming to build a strategic pro-U.S. bloc to pull in more states as adherents, so to isolate Russia and China. Taiwan is being instrumentalised against China (and to Beijing’s fury, has become an invitee to the conference), and Ukraine is being weaponised against Russia. Both are explosive issues. But of the two, it is Ukraine that is the most volatile.

We should not forget however, that America was dabbling with General Chiang Kai-shek from as long ago as 1925. (During WW2, there about one thousand U.S. military advisers in Chiang’s army). And after the war, the U.S. handed Taiwan over to the Kuomintang (Chiang’s political movement), as the platform for instigating insurrection against ‘the communist danger’ in mainland China.

Of course, the U.S. ultimately had to face reality, and switched recognition only in 1971, from the Kuomintang in Taiwan (its’ one-party dictatorship only ended in 1988), as the legal representative of all China, to the CCP.

However, with China’s meteoric rise causing concern in Washington, (the Chimerica narrative was losing its credibility), President Obama initiated the ‘Pivot to Asia’, with Taiwan becoming fifth in terms of global recipients of U.S. weapons. Team Biden now want to go one step further than Obama: by adding a diplomatic component to arms build-up. So, the ‘wheel of time turns’, and politics invert – and it is all ‘Let’s Back Taiwan’ again, as the CCP is demonised afresh.

And the EU goes along with this! In fact they are cheerleaders for ‘Let’s Back Taiwan’ (though Merkel expresses some reservations). It is strategic incoherence for the EU to play this U.S. game against China. President Xi has warned plainly: It is playing with fire. Why should Europe want a part in that?

The ploy here, is not for the U.S. to go to war with China, but to push Taiwan’s secessionist ambitions to the point that Xi ‘loses face’ (an unforgiveable lacuna in China), and the CCP is split. This at least, is the thrust of the anonymous ‘Longer Telegram’ written by a senior U.S. official, arguing that U.S. policy should be to exacerbate divisions in the Party command. It won’t work, but in the process, Europe’s relations with China will be ruined.

The Ukraine is the more pressing issue at this moment, because it is spiralling down into cascading systemic instability: Corrupt, oligarchic and dysfunctional. Economically bust: Ukraine has little prospect of replacing the energy (gas and coal), that it lost through its bitter clash with Russia; and it has no less than half of its army (100,000 men) sitting in muddy trenches, reminiscent of WW1 conditions, dug-in along a 250 Km contact line.

The boom of artillery and the crackle of small arms fire is continuous. It is a war against the Donbass militias, dug-in some few hundred metres back – a war that the Ukrainian soldiers openly admit – cannot be won without ‘outside help’. President Zelensky says that the slide to war is unstoppable, without outside help (dialogue with Putin).

Not only can the war not be won by the forces of Kiev, but those demoralised troops must know also, that – from the perspective of the Russian High Command – they face a demoralised Ukrainian army ‘just as they would want it’: Ripe for encircling, and ‘the taking’, should that become necessary.

The war situation spirals down. And something, sooner or later, will crack: conflict seems therefore, already ‘baked-in’. The U.S. and the EU see that Kiev cannot ‘do’ Minsk. This was the agreement reached by the Normandy Four Powers that the only solution was to be found in negotiations between the authorities in Kiev, together with the political leaders of Donetsk and Lugansk.

The EU faces an impasse: The crisis worsens; all routes out are blocked. Kiev will not implement Minsk, yet Russia insists on it. It refuses to budge. There is no other known framework (to Minsk) on anyone’s ‘table’.

The West’s answer is to somehow get itself off the Minsk ‘hook’ (though they all approved, when the accord became a binding UN Security Council Resolution). Intense pressure on Putin to bypass Minsk and to negotiate directly with Zelensky in a summit, is the West’s response. To bypass, and cut the feet from under the Donetsk and Lugansk leaders – and, for Russia to ‘give way’ on the latter’s existential interests, in order ‘to save Ukraine’. That is to say, save a rabidly anti-Russian political élite (desperate to join NATO), from its own dysfunctional mess, and then to supply this hostile entity with Russian gas, and coal – and to pay it hefty gas transition fees.

Well, Putin won’t do it: he declines to participate in a summit with Zelensky – a summit that expressly would bypass the legal internal framework to Minsk, and transform it from that into an international bilateral treaty between Putin and Zelensky alone. Putin wants no part of it. Moscow regards the Kiev leadership as wholly incapable, and untrustworthy.

Where is the EU on this issue? It cheerleads – and joins with the U.S. in demanding that Putin ‘save Ukraine’ for them (negotiate with Zelensky). EU leaders hold out chimeric mirages of Ukraine ‘one day’ joining the EU and NATO.

It won’t happen! But it raises hopes among some elements in Kiev that, were they to go for broke by attempting to recover the eastern provinces, that the EU and NATO would have no option but to dig them out from the deep hole in which the Kiev leadership finds itself.

So here we are. The question however, should be: How on earth did the EU get into such a strategic mess? The frank answer is by being unreflective, Atlanticist ‘bots’. The EU never questioned the direction or the consequence to U.S. policy, when in the wake of the USSR implosion – as American Chutzpah led Washington to resile from understandings and guarantees that precisely had given America an end to the Cold War (i.e. not extending NATO’s frontiers eastwards, beyond Germany). Rather, the EU watched admiringly as NATO began its march right up to the Russian doorstep.

Relations with Russia were bound to be problematic when the U.S. decided on an expanded, new EU – albeit one with Moscow shut out. The EU never truly baulked either, when, at the Clinton and Obama behest, the EU encroached both its, as well as NATO’s frontiers, ever deeper into Russia’s backyard. (The Euro-élites were too busy dreaming of their European ‘Empire’. I was there. I recall it well).

Then there was a second ‘ratchet’ towards problematic relations. What did the EU do when Obama developed his venomous antipathy towards President Putin personally? Well … nothing. They fell into ‘Merkelism’ – that mode of never taking hard decisions; playing for time; no real reform; ‘kicking the can’, and essential fudging. Angela Merkel played at empathy for Russia. She ‘talked the talk’ of good relations, whilst ‘walking the walk’ of the EU implementing each and every sanction proposed by the U.S. on Russia.

Let’s put that into context: As a Soviet official, Putin was posted to Germany, he speaks German well, and hails from St Petersburg, the most European of Russia’s cities. When he first came into the Presidency at the end of the Yeltsin era, Putin wanted Russia to be a part of Europe; he advocated for Greater Europe. He even once suggested that Russia join NATO!

Russia had expected that Europe’s need for energy and raw materials would translate into Russia somehow getting a seat at the Greater Europe table. Instead, the U.S. railed at the evils of Europe having energy dependency – and many Europeans actually fought against additional pipelines to increase gas supplies coming into the EU.

We all know that the EU was conceived on the basis that the U.S. has ‘its back’, whilst the EU anyway is treaty-bound to reflect NATO security interests. We understand that the Euro was deliberately shaped to be subordinate to the dollar, and that those who inhabit Brussels, forever have one eye on Washington, to confirm that they remain on the ‘magic career carpet’.

And so it becomes clearer … Obama couldn’t bear a Russian President that was smarter than him (he prided himself on being the smartest man in the room). Obama was an interventionist (though effaced, through ‘leading from behind’), but he was no out-and-out, neo-con. There were (and are) those in Washington, whose hatred for all things Russian reaches back to Trotskyist times, and who were then turbo-charged by the U.S. reversal following Yeltsin’s fall.

These U.S. hawks believe that a Ukraine war would finally achieve their long-standing objective to disrupt, and sever the energy corridor linking Russia to a gas-dependent European Union – leaving Russia weakened and vulnerable. In short, for this foreign policy constituency (and please note, it is but one faction, albeit an influential one), hurting Russia trumps any hurt to the EU (who they believe have no choice but to remain beholden to Washington).

For the moment, Biden is focussed more on keeping energy prices and inflation down. He does not want energy prices through the roof. The hawks may be silent for now, but they are not gone. They are acting in collusion with certain component Kiev hardliners who want Russia provoked into military intervention in Ukraine (by taking action, however futile, against Donbass). Sanctions on Russian energy would rain down, in the wake of Russian intervention: It could spell the end of gas pipelines to the EU. Some in the EU even would applaud (as their citizens freeze without heating). Is this what ‘having the EU’s back’ means?

So, let’s look at the strategic balance sheet: The EU has virtually ruptured its relations with both Russia and China – at the same time. Washington’s hawks wanted it. A ‘European Brzezinski’ certainly would have advised the EU differently: never lose both in tandem – you are never that powerful. In Moscow, where once there were many Europhiles, these sympathies now are rarer than hens’ teeth. Even the suave, courteous Foreign Minister does not deign to take the EU seriously.
Maybe some, enraptured by the supposed allure of European ‘values’ will feel this strategic ‘loss’ is just the price worth paying for upholding European ‘values’.

Well, good luck out there … But let’s remember that Europe doesn’t have much in the way of secure indigenous energy, or raw material supplies. But don’t let that stop you shouting and belittling Putin and Russia. Europe too, is a tad behind in technology, and finance for tech starts-up, but don’t let that stop you castigating Xi as a dictator; or alleging that China is practising ethnic cleansing in Xinjian province (evidence please!). And yes, please don’t stop vetoing all Chinese attempts to merge with, or acquire European firms, because … European and North Atlanticist Values! They evidently feel so warm (that’s good, given a cold winter is predicted).

I am sure that Team Biden ‘has your back’, and will come to your aid when the economic crisis bites (after all, we are all in the faltering ‘re-set’, the transition, and the health and ‘emergencies’ together). Aren’t we? Too bad for ECB, that Jay Powell just said that “inflation isn’t transitory”. Well, best of luck out there."

https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...uck-with-that/

[sabang]

Excellent article- but then again it is authored by Alistair Crooke! Wish we heard more from him.

Alastair Crooke - Wikipedia

[harrybarracuda]

Excellent article- but then again it is authored by Alistair Crooke! Wish we heard more from him.

Oh we have.

Anything he writes about the great satan is gleefully cut and pasted.

[OhOh]

^^
Infomative posts from a knowledgable person, are always worth the time to read them.

^
Your opinion of the post appears not to have been posted.

The EU’s Strategic Balance Sheet – Well, Good Luck With That…

I presume you will remedy that once you have read it.

[NamPikToot]

Look, none if this is about sides on this forum really its about what Russia proposes to do viz a former territory which it ceded and ever since Putin gained power decided to flirt with walking back on that position. We have two posters, formerly three, who seem to view current territorial transgressions against independent states as nothing more than exercising their rights over citizens who chose self determination.

I'm not really sure how OhOh, Sabang and Klong can justify their positions on Taiwan, Tibet, Ukraine et al - perhaps they can produce a cogent explanation that stands up to the self determination counter point?

[harrybarracuda]

^^
Infomative posts from a knowledgable person, are always worth the time to read them.

Person who posts the same propaganda as Hoohoo = "knowledgable" person.

[harrybarracuda]

A good title for this post would be "Is Putin playing an imaginary war card to distract his people from their ever-growing awareness of both his industrial-scale theft of Russian wealth as well as his gross incompetence in handling the pandemic?"

[OhOh]

who seem to view current territorial transgressions against independent states as nothing more than exercising their rights over citizens who chose self determination.

Russia has not transgressed in any countries territories. It has not walked anything back. On the contrary NATO has moved eastwards constantly.

Russia had an agreement to be in the Ukranian port with the Ukraine government.

Subsequent to the NaGastani coup, the citizens of the port city held an election and decided they would seek Russian acceptance of them back into Russia. Which Russia did.

You may wish to read the ruling:

ACCORDANCE WITH INTERNATIONAL LAW OF THE UNILATERAL
DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE IN RESPECT OF KOSOVO

INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE
YEAR 2010

It may be of interest to you and provides a path to follow.

Currently, Russia has no desire to fight with anybody.

The Minsk agreements, another UNSC legally binding resolution, specified the steps to be undertaken by the Ukraine government and the Ukrainian people who were still fighting.

The people who are trying to exercise the UNSC resolution, which is considered to be a legal undertaking, are being ignored by the current Ukraine government and are under attack, with heavy weapons and drones daily.

Many of the people under attack are Russian citizens.

Which the Russian government has an obligation to protect.

NaGastan and some other NATO countries are assisting the Ukraine military in these attacks.

The Russians have advised all they will defend them if necessary.

As I am presuming yesterday's online meeting between the Presidents of Russia and NaGastan will discuss this situation, it may be prudent to wait and see if any solution has been found.

I'm not really sure how OhOh .... can justify their positions on Taiwan, Tibet, Ukraine et a

There are many posts here on TD, try reading them.

[harrybarracuda]

Russia has not transgressed in any countries territories. It has not walked anything back. On the contrary NATO has moved eastwards constantly.

It annexed Crimea you utter buffoon.

What did NATO annex?

[sabang]

You can repeat that fallacy all you like, but the fact remains that following the effective dissolution of the former Ukrainian federation after the Maidan Revolution- which overthrew the elected government, the Parliament of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea called a Referendum, and the people voted by an overwhelming majority to reunite with Russia. Throwing hissy fits does not change a thing.

[panama hat]

Your opinion of the post appears not to have been posted.

Anything he writes about the great satan is gleefully cut and pasted.

Settled.

What did NATO annex?

You can repeat that fallacy all you like

What did NATO annex?

Also settled.

[sabang]

Anyway, forget Crimea- that's done and dusted. Eastern Ukraine/ Donbass republic is the flashpoint now, and has been for a while. This area does not have the convenient 'autonomous republic' status that Crimea possessed, and thus no recognised Parliament. But what the People there want seems pretty clear. I hear this talk of self determination and democracy, and I agree- so lets walk the walk, not just talk the talk, and let the People decide- but I'm pretty sure you will find that is the last thing that both neo-Ukraine and the USA want.

[panama hat]

I hear this talk

Of course you do . . .

[sabang]

Well, I'm eager to 'walk the walk' and put it to the democratic test. Are you? Send in an army of UN observers and hold elections. Let the People decide.

[panama hat]

Well, I'm eager

That's very white of you . . . Now, let's create another straw-man argument, shall we? Then you can argue and declare yourself the winner.

Is this another topic you're not interested in to the extent of posting more often than anyone else and will you accuse others of "perjury" again?