Ukraine war mega thread

[harrybarracuda]

Are the petulant children all butthurt because the reality is finally sinking in that Ukraine is losing this war, and the sanctions aren't working?

Can't help cheerleading the war criminal can he?

[sabang]

The fact you just wanna closet yourself in your narrow minded ideological bubble, and disparage any information or opinion that goes against the 'approved narrative', means that of course you are gonna be butthurt when the inconvenient Truth finally sinks in. The problem is entirely yours pal.


Perhaps you (and ilk) should become a little more selective, even cynical, about the narrative you so unquestioningly swallow- especially when it is obviously being spun, or ramped up. Just a thought.

[sabang]

An excellent article (too good for this thread!), but worth copying- and reading- in full



by Graham E. Fuller (grahamefuller. com)
18 June 2022

The war in Ukraine has dragged on long enough now to reveal certain clear trajectories. First, two fundamental realities:

1. Putin is to be condemned for launching this war– as is virtually any leader who launches any war. Putin can be termed a war criminal–in good company with George W. Bush who has killed vastly greater numbers than Putin.

2) secondary condemnation belongs to the US (NATO) in deliberately provoking a war with Russia by implacably pushing its hostile military organization, despite Moscow’s repeated notifications about crossing red lines, right up to the gates of Russia. This war did not have to be if Ukranian neutrality, á la Finland and Austria, had been accepted. Instead Washington has called for clear Russian defeat.

As the war grinds to a close, where will things go?

Contrary to Washington’s triumphalist pronouncements, Russia is winning the war, Ukraine has lost the war. Any longer-term damage to Russia is open to debate.

American sanctions against Russia have turned out to be far more devastating to Europe than to Russia. The global economy has slowed and many developing nations face serious food shortages and risk of broad starvation.

There are already deep cracks in the European façade of so-called “NATO unity.” Western Europe will increasingly rue the day that it blindly followed the American Pied Piper to war against Russia. Indeed, this is not a Ukrainian-Russian war but an American-Russian war fought by proxy to the last Ukrainian.
Contrary to optimistic declarations, NATO may in fact ultimately emerge weakened. Western Europeans will think long and hard about the wisdom and deep costs of provoking deeper long term confrontations with Russia or other “competitors”of the US.

Europe will sooner or later return to the purchase of inexpensive Russian energy. Russia lies on the doorstep and a natural economic relationship with Russia will possess overwhelming logic in the end.

Europe already perceives the US as a declining power with an erratic and hypocritical foreign policy “vision” premised upon the desperate need to preserve “American leadership” in the world. America’s willingness to go to war to this end is increasingly dangerous to others.

Washington has also made it clear that Europe must sign on to an “ideological” struggle against China as well in some kind of protean struggle of “democracy against authoritarianism”. Yet, if anything this is a classic struggle for power across the globe. And Europe can even less afford to blunder into confrontation with China–a “threat” perceived primarily by Washington yet unconvincing to many European states and much of the world..

China’s Belt and Road initiative is perhaps the most ambitious economic and geopolitical project in world history. It is already linking China with Europe by rail and sea. European exclusion from the Belt and Road project will cost it dearly. Note that the Belt and Road runs right through Russia. It is impossible for Europe to close its doors to Russia while maintaining access to this Eurasian mega project. Thus a Europe that perceives the US already in decline has a little incentive to join the bandwagon against China. The end of the Ukraine war will bring serious reconsideration in Europe about the benefits of propping up Washington’s desperate bid to maintain its global hegemony.

Europe will undergo increasing identity crisis in determining its future global role. Western Europeans will tire of subservience to the 75 year American domination of European foreign policy. Right now NATO is European foreign policy and Europe remains inexplicably timid in asserting any independent voice.How long will that prevail?

We now see how massive US sanctions against Russia, including confiscation of Russian funds in western banks, is causing most of the world to reconsider the wisdom of banking entirely on the US dollar into the future. Diversification of international economic instruments is already in the cards and willl only act to weaken Washington’s once dominant economic position and its unilateral weaponisation of the dollar.

One of the most disturbing features of this US-Russian struggle in Ukraine has been the utter corruption of independent media. Indeed Washington has won the information and propaganda war hands down, orchestrating all Western media to sing from the same hymnbook in characterizing the Ukraine war. The West has never before witnessed such a blanket imposition by one country’s ideologically-driven geopolitical perspective at home. Nor, of course, is the Russian press to be trusted either. In the midst of a virulent anti-Russian propaganda barrage whose likes I have never seen during my Cold Warrior days, serious analysts must dig deep these days to gain some objective understanding of what is actually taking place in Ukraine.

Would that this American media dominance that denies nearly all alternative voices were merely a blip occasioned by Ukraine events. But European elites are perhaps slowly coming to the realization that they have been stampeded into this position of total “unanimity”; cracks are already beginning to appear in the façade of “EU and NATO unity.” But the more dangerous implication is that as we head into future global crises, a genuine independent free press is largely disappearing, falling into the hands of corporate-dominated media close to policy circles , and now bolstered by electronic social media, all manipulating the narrative to its own ends. As we move into a predictably greater and more dangerous crises of instability through global warming, refugee flows, natural disasters, and likely new pandemics, rigorous state and corporate domination of the western media becomes very dangerous indeed to the future of democracy. We no longer hear alternative voices on Ukraine today.

Finally, Russia’s geopolitical character has very likely now decisively tilted towards Eurasia. Russians have sought for centuries to be accepted within Europe but have been consistently held at arms length. The West will not discuss a new strategic and security architecture. Ukraine has simply intensified this trend. Russian elites now no longer possess an alternative to accepting that its economic future lies in the Pacific where Vladivostok lies only one or two hours away by air from the vast economies of Beijing, Tokyo, and Seoul. China and Russia have now been decisively pushed ever more closely together specifically out of common concern to block unfettered US freedom of unilateral military and economic intervention around the world. That the US can split US-induced Russian and Chinese cooperation is a fantasy. Russia has scientific brilliance, abundant energy, rich rare minerals and metals, while global warming will increase the agricultural potential of Siberia. China has the capital, the markets, and the manpower to contribute to what becomes a natural partnership across Eurasia.

Sadly for Washington, nearly every single one of its expectations about this war are turning out to be incorrect. Indeed the West may come to look back at this moment as the final argument against following Washington’s quest for global dominance into ever newer and more dangerous and damaging confrontations with Eurasia. And most of the rest of the world–Latin America, India, the Middle East and Africa– find few national interests in this fundamentally American war against Russia.
==================
Graham E. Fuller is a former Vice Chair of the National Intelligence Council at CIA with responsibility for global intelligence estimates.

Some hard thoughts about post Ukraine

[bsnub]

Are the petulant children all butthurt because the reality is finally sinking in that Ukraine is losing this war, and the sanctions aren't working?

Blah, Blah, Blah. You are a broken record desperate to push a false narrative. I am still waiting for you to tell me when all the winning will start.

Perhaps you (and ilk) should become a little more selective, even cynical, about the narrative you so unquestioningly swallow

You are the one who spews constant propaganda and lies. You are indoctrinated and yet not smart enough to see it.

[sabang]

Any comments on Graham E. Fuller's article snubby?

[pickel]

Any comments on Graham E. Fuller's article snubby?

He's an apologist victim shamer, and an advocate of appeasement to tyrants. Much like yourself.

[sabang]

Nice way for a minion to describe the former Vice Chairman of the National Intelligence Council of the CIA! Show some respect boy.

[pickel]

Nice way for a minion to describe the former Vice Chairman of the National Intelligence Council of the CIA! Show some respect boy.

I thought you hated the CIA, and the Rand Corporation? He was heavily involved in the Iran Contra affair as well, providing weapons to Iran. Also accused of involvement in a coup attempt in Turkey. Kissinger, and now him. You rant on about American Imperialism, yet you'll bed yourself with architects of it, so long as they support Putins narrative. You're a hypocrite.

[sabang]

And Jack Matlock, John Mearsheimer, Noam Chomsky, David Stockman and many other foreign policy realists. The Biden admin has totally stuffed it up, and seriously hurt their so called close allies in the process. Which is why I cannot wait to see the arse end of them.

[pickel]

The Biden admin has totally stuffed it up, and seriously hurt their so called close allies in the process. Which is why I cannot wait to see the arse end of them.

You're delusional if you think things will change in regards to Ukraine if the Republicans get in. Other than a handful of Trumpist Q-anoners, they are united on Ukraine.

[sabang]

I will just leave the boneheads to stew in their own butthurt. Not like I didn't warn you.

[harrybarracuda]

The fact you just wanna closet yourself in your narrow minded ideological bubble, and disparage any information or opinion that goes against the 'approved narrative', means that of course you are gonna be butthurt when the inconvenient Truth finally sinks in. The problem is entirely yours pal.


Perhaps you (and ilk) should become a little more selective, even cynical, about the narrative you so unquestioningly swallow- especially when it is obviously being spun, or ramped up. Just a thought.

When you provide some "information", as opposed to witless propaganda, come back and talk.

[harrybarracuda]

You're a hypocrite.

I don't think he realises, he's more of a crayon-munching fuckwit.

[sabang]

Graham Fuller, Jack Matlock, Noam Chomsky, Henry Kissinger, John Mearsheimer, and so on- crayon munching fuckwits.

Do you realise how much of a fuckwit you have made yourself out to be, in front of the whole TD readership? Plus we can smell your butthurt from, well, anywhere!

[bsnub]

You rant on about American Imperialism, yet you'll bed yourself with architects of it, so long as they support Putins narrative. You're a hypocrite.

Well said and spot on, he will jump on anyone's bandwagon that helps him prop up his shit false narratives. He has no shame in his own obvious idiocy.

I am still waiting for him to show me where all this winning is that he claims the Russians are doing.

[sabang]

These 'false shit' narratives are supported by no less than the people above, and many others junior. Crayon munching fuckwits!

Smell that butthurt, this whole thing has totally backfired on those imbeciles you elected to government.

[bsnub]

These 'false shit' narratives are supported by no less than the people above, and many others junior.

They are a bunch of over the hill clowns, but I guess that is why you like them. They remind you of yourself.



I will take the words of Gen. David Petraeus who by the way was also a former director of the CIA. He disagrees with your clown show...

Hear ex-CIA director's prediction about who will win in Ukraine - CNN Video

[sabang]

From Space highlights





Ukraine Uncensored
· Following
Posted by Kuzma Kremen
22h


Putting this here to have a quick link to proof of government level Nazism in Ukraine.

A person considered a national hero in Ukraine second only to Stepan Bandera is Roman Shukhevych. Even Wiki, with its tremendous anti-Russian bias describes him quite accurately —

“…one of the commanders of Nachtigall Battalion
, a hauptmann
of the German Schutzmannschaft (SS) 201
auxiliary police battalion, and one of the organizers of the Galicia-Volhynia massacres
of approximately 100,000 Poles
.”




This literal Nazi, a SS Captain, a war criminal who took part in heinous acts of genocide against Jews and Slavs is honored and praised in today's Ukraine as a national hero.

There are at least six cities and towns in Ukraine that have streets named after him, including Kiev, where one of its central avenues bears his name. There are numerous plaques and monuments erected in honor of this mass murderer all over Ukraine.

https://truthabouturkaina.quora.com/

[bsnub]

Blah, Blah, Blah. Stalin is a national hero in Russia, and he alone committed caused 5 million Ukrainian deaths during the Holodomor. But let's look to China Mao Zedong is the biggest mass murder on the planet and he is considered a national hero by the CCP.

So in Russia and China, the two biggest genocidal murderers in the history of the world are both national heroes. At least the Germans have the compassion to demonize Hitler. Once again, you are coming off like a fool with no knowledge of basic global history.

[Backspin]

Ukrainian general bragging about shooting at Russia (with German equipment) on June 22 at 4am. The anniversary of Hitlers attack on the USSR. But hey we aren't nazis !

[Backspin]

Those missile carrier warships lined up in the Black Sea are definitely gonna have a good time very soon. It is almost like Ukraine is provoking Russia to level them with the ground.

[misskit]

Ukrainian Army pursues counteroffensive in Kherson region

The Armed Forces of Ukraine are continuing their counteroffensive operation in Kherson region, without disclosing the already liberated settlements citing security reasons.
That’s according to the head of the Joint Coordination Press Center of the Ukrainian South Defense Forces, Natalia Humeniuk, who spoke on the air of the national telethon, an Ukrinform correspondent reports.


"We do have certain successes, pursuing counteroffensive action that allowed us to significantly advance eastwards, but we aren’t announcing the names of the liberated settlements at the moment because in the times of war, it’s very important to advance, liberate areas, cement own presence, and push the enemy out as far as it is needed to prevent powerful and truly brutal artillery and mortar strikes on settlements that are already under our control," Humeniuk said.

The official noted that the Ukrainian forces are in contact with residents of the occupied territories and guerrillas who are helping the Armed Forces.


"We are in contact with them, we communicate, we support them, and we are very grateful for the powerful guerrilla movement with which they keep the occupiers anxious. Because they constantly demonstrate that Kherson and the entire Kherson region are part of Ukraine and liberation is about to come," Humeniuk stressed.


As reported, Operational Command South stated that Russian military operatives had been shot dead in captured Kherson.


On June 20, Kherson guerrillas said in a video address that they would continue their fight against the aggressors.

Ukrainian Army pursues counteroffensive in Kherson region

[bsnub]

Those missile carrier warships lined up in the Black Sea are definitely gonna have a good time very soon. It is almost like Ukraine is provoking Russia to level them with the ground.

Idiot.

[sabang]

Each domestic disaster is followed by a call pledging more aid to Kyiv – it’s the most expensive therapy session in history






What do you do when in deep trouble? Boris Johnson is having his fill of it, but does he consult his chief whip, his political aides, his secretaries or his wife? Intriguingly he turns to someone in even deeper trouble that himself, the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy.

Last Wednesday the prime minister suffered the humiliating departure of his so-called “ethics” adviser, Lord Geidt. Johnson was facing a critical meeting with northern MPs before the upcoming Wakefield byelection. It was a three-line whip: nowhere was his presence more vital to boost morale and find votes. Yet not long after the Geidt statement Johnson cancelled his ticket to Yorkshire in favour of one across Europe deep into Ukrainian territory. He clearly and desperately needed the embrace and consoling chat of his friend Zelenskiy. Ducking and weaving from Putin’s missile batteries is clearly as nothing to the cluster weaponry of a bunch of Tory backbenchers.

Research by the i newspaper has revealed that these sudden conflabs with Zelenskiy have coincided precisely with Johnson’s moments of acutest embarrassment. On 6 June Sir Graham Brady announced that Tory MPs were ready to vote on their party leadership. Within three hours Johnson was on the phone to Zelenskiy. A month earlier, on 5 May, the day of local elections with dire results, Johnson sought comfort from the same source. On 30 April there was disastrous news of MP Neil Parish’s resignation. Johnson called Kyiv. On 23 April, news broke that the Met was issuing fines over a bring-your-own-bottle lockdown party at Downing Street. Johnson called Kyiv. On 16 April, when the UN savaged the Rwanda plan, Johnson called Kyiv. On 12 April Johnson was fined by the Metropolitan police over Partygate, and he called Kyiv. Was it really to discuss strategy in Donbas? Surely it was just a celebrity shoulder to cry on and a good news headline.

One wonders what on earth they discuss. Does Johnson plead that Vladimir Putin must be an absolute doddle compared with his Keir Starmer? Do they discuss peace in our time or what they had for tea? All we know is that on almost every occasion, Johnson conjures from the air another tranche of British taxpayers’ money in aid for Ukraine. It must be the most expensive psychotherapy session in history.

FULL- https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-call-kyiv-aid

[Hugh Cow]

From Space highlights





Ukraine Uncensored
· Following
Posted by Kuzma Kremen
22h


Putting this here to have a quick link to proof of government level Nazism in Ukraine.

A person considered a national hero in Ukraine second only to Stepan Bandera is Roman Shukhevych. Even Wiki, with its tremendous anti-Russian bias describes him quite accurately —

“…one of the commanders of Nachtigall Battalion
, a hauptmann
of the German Schutzmannschaft (SS) 201
auxiliary police battalion, and one of the organizers of the Galicia-Volhynia massacres
of approximately 100,000 Poles
.”




This literal Nazi, a SS Captain, a war criminal who took part in heinous acts of genocide against Jews and Slavs is honored and praised in today's Ukraine as a national hero.

There are at least six cities and towns in Ukraine that have streets named after him, including Kiev, where one of its central avenues bears his name. There are numerous plaques and monuments erected in honor of this mass murderer all over Ukraine.

https://truthabouturkaina.quora.com/

Blah, Blah, Blah. Stalin is a national hero in Russia, and he alone committed caused 5 million Ukrainian deaths during the Holodomor. But let's look to China Mao Zedong is the biggest mass murder on the planet and he is considered a national hero by the CCP.

So in Russia and China, the two biggest genocidal murderers in the history of the world are both national heroes. At least the Germans have the compassion to demonize Hitler. Once again, you are coming off like a fool with no knowledge of basic global history.

Nice to see you take a breather from Vlads cock to post something. Unfortunately for you harking back to events around 80 years ago smells suspiciously like a drowning man grasping for any straw he can. With your logic we should blame the japanese and Germans of today for what their grandfathers did.
Many surveys in Russia have shown their is still a great following for Stalin. I would bring you up to speed on the atrocities he inflicted on Ukrainians Poles Russians etc but it would take too much time. BTW you neglected to mention there are around 30 streets in Russia named after Stalin but then that doesn't fit your pro Moscow narrative does it?