Thread: Rubber trees 101

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Why don't you post something about percentage tappers in Malaysia that says different.

I didn't make the statement that tappers make up to 80% of the price sold. You did.

It's a minimum wage, hourly, daily or monthly in Malaysia, do the maths, it's not hard.
For an international rubber/business consultant, Henry you seem a bit uninformed.

So do tell, how much does a Malaysian tapper earn, do they work for less then guest workers.

Over and out space cadet Hat,

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Why don't you post something about percentage tappers in Malaysia that says different.

I didn't make the statement that tappers make up to 80% of the price sold. You did.

It's a minimum wage, hourly, daily or monthly in Malaysia, do the maths, it's not hard.
For an international rubber/business consultant, Henry you seem a bit uninformed.

So do tell, how much does a Malaysian tapper earn, do they work for less then guest workers.

Over and out space cadet Hat,

Still doesn't change the fact that you just make up something and pass it off as 'fact'.

Try harder, maybe you can drag yourself out of your morass

Sold at auction Tuesday, Udon province, 23.89 baht per kg. Must still be money to be made as there were 14 (fourteen!) bidders.

Sold at auction yesterday, Udon province, 21.73 baht per kg.

Got 18 baht day before yesterday at gate...another two large farms locally chopping rubber trees..sad that the cutters will be out of a job and income.

My personal philosophy:
Anyone who owns a few rai in Thailand can and will survive with a little ingenuity.
Grow your own veggies, a few chickens for meat and eggs maybe and a goat for milk?
Just remember my dad thankfully coming home from WW2...he kept rabbits for meat and converted flower beds to vegetable gardens…bit of ‘careful’ ‘trading’ got us milk, eggs, butter and cheese.
I guess we can do without the internet and phones, gasoline/diesel powered vehicles.
I note that in our local village some are bartering or swapping. Our neighbors swap/give us various fruits and vegetables…MIL has chickens,SIL has many fruit trees.
Do we actually need banks and the plethora of non ‘producing’ entities..I think not.

Originally Posted by crepitas

Anyone who owns a few rai in Thailand can and will survive with a little ingenuity.

Precisely - chop down the trees and get a low timber price because the scum know you're desperate.
A lower income is better than no income at all, it is still a commodity that people buy

Just asked one of the local drive by wet cup buyers, today's price 16 baht a kilo, they all took a hit over the Buddha holiday, buying on 22 Oct. prices.

crepitas, your right Thais will survive, there is going to be a lot more cheap second hand cars for sale, Thai guy down the road, fair sized rubber plantation, just handed the keys over on a 2 year old car.

Bright side, if there is one, there will be a lot less rubber out there, government is clearing illegal plantations all over the country. Have facebook friends from Vietnam, buyers and exporters, saying a lot of trees getting felled there.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Thai guy down the road, fair sized rubber plantation, just handed the keys over on a 2 year old car.

Back to the finance company I assume, do they keep lists of what they have for sale? Or do they sell at auctions or dealers.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Back to the finance company I assume, do they keep lists of what they have for sale? Or do they sell at auctions or dealers.

No idea what the banks do with the cars, guess an auction somewhere.
Strange thing is defaulting on the loan seems to have little effect on your credit rating, just a loss of face.

# Correction. 21.37 baht per kg. Not 21.73.
# 18 baht is the going rate around here on gate prices.
# Most of the trees being cut down round here are going to the Double A Eucalyptus buyers, ie sold for paper pulp rather than furniture lumber. Absolute crying shame.
# A LOT of bargains to be had now and in the near future, re cars, m/cycles, land and houses. A lot of debt and a lot of people starting to suffer financially, in all walks of life, not just farmers.

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

A lot of debt and a lot of people starting to suffer financially, in all walks of life, not just farmers.

Rubber is the main legal income around my way, low prices mean house building stops, shops sell less, no one spends. So yes it's not just the farmers who lose, noticeable on Tuesday, the full moon Buddha day.
Normally the night is alive with fireworks, this year few bought them, no money spare.

Rubber prices continue slump as tapping halts at large plantations - Global Rubber Markets

Well, we finally made it. Sold below the 20 baht threshold, yesterday at auction, Udon province, 19.29 baht per kg.

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Well, we finally made it. Sold below the 20 baht threshold, yesterday at auction, Udon province, 19.29 baht per kg.

Had buyers phoning, to see if we had rubber for sale, crap 16 bt, but very little rubber around.
Most tappers and small family plantations have gone over to rice harvesting for wages.

19.2 baht the other day at aution, udon thani. yes our tappers are days down because busy cutting the rice............

Sold at auction, Udon province, cup rubber;
24/11/15, 19.70 baht per kg,
yesterday 20.16 baht per kg.
Many (most) operations going over to a 55/45 % split, as recommended by the local Sor Kor Yor office, until prices stay regularly above 20 baht per kg. My staff yesterday had a glum look on their face as they got a 40% payout. We will probably follow suit, if the next sale is below 20 by going to a 55/45 split.

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Many (most) operations going over to a 55/45 % split, as recommended by the local Sor Kor Yor office, until prices stay regularly above 20 baht per kg. My staff yesterday had a glum look on their face as they got a 40% payout. We will probably follow suit, if the next sale is below 20 by going to a 55/45 split.

I am loathed to change the percentages, once done hard to claw it back.
We have been giving the tappers a bit of extra money for fuel etc and small loans if needed.

Think the prices have bottomed out now, only way is up, this well be the first year where rubber output fell world wide.
Hard to get solid numbers, but the GRM people [in some stats] are saying over 200,000 MT shortfall.
Fingers crossed, but fairly sure we will make it through another season.
The agro bank has phoned up offering soft loans, don't want to borrow, but it's good to know the money is there if needed.

Fingers crossed.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Many (most) operations going over to a 55/45 % split, as recommended by the local Sor Kor Yor office, until prices stay regularly above 20 baht per kg. My staff yesterday had a glum look on their face as they got a 40% payout. We will probably follow suit, if the next sale is below 20 by going to a 55/45 split.

I am loathed to change the percentages, once done hard to claw it back.
We have been giving the tappers a bit of extra money for fuel etc and small loans if needed.

Think the prices have bottomed out now, only way is up, this well be the first year where rubber output fell world wide.
Hard to get solid numbers, but the GRM people [in some stats] are saying over 200,000 MT shortfall.
Fingers crossed, but fairly sure we will make it through another season.
The agro bank has phoned up offering soft loans, don't want to borrow, but it's good to know the money is there if needed.

Of course I could well be wrong here but it must be somewhat perplexing to know that the only light at the end of the tunnel is that one can borrow money ,just to survive , the only problem being of course is that the end of the day it has to be paid back , a simple thought that some how evades the Thai line of thinking .

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Of course I could well be wrong here but it must be somewhat perplexing to know that the only light at the end of the tunnel is that one can borrow money ,just to survive , the only problem being of course is that the end of the day it has to be paid back , a simple thought that some how evades the Thai line of thinking .

Would think that levels of debt here are well below western debt.
Thai banks aren't going broke from debt defaults, they loan to people they believe can repay said loans.

For us, we are talking up to 100,000 Bt. to cover the dormant period, shouldn't need it, but you never know. bet many have credit cards with higher limits.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Many (most) operations going over to a 55/45 % split, as recommended by the local Sor Kor Yor office, until prices stay regularly above 20 baht per kg. My staff yesterday had a glum look on their face as they got a 40% payout. We will probably follow suit, if the next sale is below 20 by going to a 55/45 split.

I am loathed to change the percentages, once done hard to claw it back.
We have been giving the tappers a bit of extra money for fuel etc and small loans if needed.

Think the prices have bottomed out now, only way is up, this well be the first year where rubber output fell world wide.
Hard to get solid numbers, but the GRM people [in some stats] are saying over 200,000 MT shortfall.
Fingers crossed, but fairly sure we will make it through another season.
The agro bank has phoned up offering soft loans, don't want to borrow, but it's good to know the money is there if needed.

Indeed, i agree, if split % change, it could be difficult to get back. Looking at my books, one year ago exactly, prices were the same to within a few satang. I've told the staff we are in this together, through thick and thin. Put the boot on the other foot, what happens when prices maybe hit 60 baht kg cup/130 baht sheet, do we then say we'll have a 65/35 split because you're earning too much? The look on their face said "ah yeah good point"...

Another point in this % split, your trees and mine pump out a hell of a lot more rubber then the usual Thai cared for plantations.
I'd say my trees put out at least twice as much as the locals, so the tappers on local plantations get far less.

For some of the plantations around here, makes no difference on the split, their tappers have already gone to better paid jobs. Husband and wife tapping team needs to earn minimum wage at least or they will get a job, no shortage of work really.

?????????????????????? [ TRA News ]


New York, NY - ReportLinker forecasts worldwide demand for tires is projected to increase 4.1 percent per year to 3.0 billion units in 2019. In value terms, sales of tires are forecast to grow 7.1 percent per year to $258 billion. Increasing incomes in developing regions will spur growth in the number of vehicles in use, fueling demand for tires.

I seldom get up early anymore to see.
Are you here, if so come on over for a few beers, stay the night and have a few more beers. Jim