Thread: Trump to announce Jerusalem as capital of Israel

Originally Posted by jabir

While the Palestinians have the beginnings of a viable nation with a population united by common descent, history, culture and language, that's not enough.

Any hint to specs what is "enough"? Enough what the 193 member states do possess?

I haven't seen the list so I don't know who voted how, but my guess is that the OIC block voted, so we start with 56 of those 138 votes right there, with the balance coming from rogue and Mickey Mouse states that were bought off cheap. Could argue a vote is a vote even if was bought or rented. But pointless, because I would also guess the A-team abstained.

Really? The 'list', that you so asininely say was either bought off or is a rogue nation, includes the worlds three most populous nations- China, India & Indonesia. It includes the BRIC's. It includes Thailand. Obviously, it includes the UN too. It includes most of the world actually.

Just who was bought off? It certainly wasn't those countries in yellow- here, look for yourself.

Harry is a funny one rails against Russia vetoing all UN resolutions on Syria but quite content with the US vetoing all UN resolutions on Israel for as long as time exists.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Harry is a funny one rails against Russia vetoing all UN resolutions on Syria but quite content with the US vetoing all UN resolutions on Israel for as long as time exists.

How on earth do you draw that conclusion?

FFS what an idiot.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Jeezus this thread devolved into a bozo fest.

Maybe it needs your intellectually calming influence Snubs.
No one would accuse me of muzzie love. In fact some would say if a muzzie was on fire I'd probably pull up a chair open a tinnie and roast a couple of snags. The truth in this one though is the red sea pedestrians have right royally shafted the Palestinians. I reckon blind Freddy ought to be able to see that. Being an expert on world affairs, my suggestion would be since our Deutcher friends caused all this hullabaloo by trying to get rid of the yids, they should just cut off a chunk of the old Deutchland, say maybe Rhineland seeing as they haven't had it back all that long anyway, so probably wouldn't miss it. Put a big fence around it so no one can get in or out chuck the Jews in and Bobs your uncle.. As an added bonus circumcise Trollers cheesy dick (probably need a microsurgeon) give him a prayer shawl and a skull cap and throw him over the fence so he cant get out. Two problems solved. No need to thank me.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

Al Aqsa Mosque is under Hashemite guardianship.




?? Eh? That sounds like some very strong preconditions. What are you on about?
And why are Israeli preconditions above Palestinian ones, especially when Israeli preconditions involve breaching international law and the Geneva Convention?

I didn't make the rules, that's the way it works. Both sides have preconditions in talks without preconditions. Part of the madness in our modern world.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I think you mean "You can't have anything because the four by twos want it".

If the Pals aspire to genuine peace and prosperity, side by side with Israel, it can only be achieved through sovereignty. Hands up all those who believe they do, won't be many.

If the Pals aspire to destroying Israel, it can still only be done as a sovereign neighbour, not by a few attacks here and there while the whole world can see its people are wilfully deprived of education and most other basics for a viable society.

Either way they need to get their act together, shake off the image of a thoroughly corrupt society governed by two thoroughly corrupt sets of leaders, and demonstrate that they are capable of running a state.


AQ faded to the IS because their plan was plain and simple jihad; they had no plan beyond jihad for the sake of jihad, whereas IS did their dd with infrastructure and trimmings. This is why desperate western leaders celebrate their great victory over the IS in a tiny region, whilst ignoring the fact that it remains a greater global threat than it was before said 'destruction', and that the 'kill zone' will never again be under the control of forces sympathetic to the west.

You are being lied to, and lap it up!

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Any hint to specs what is "enough"? Enough what the 193 member states do possess?

"Enough" is five of 193 votes.

^

Originally Posted by jabir
While the Palestinians have the beginnings of a viable nation with a population united by common descent, history, culture and language, that's not enough.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Any hint to specs what is "enough"? Enough what the 193 member states do possess?

My question was to your statement that the Palestine does not have enough to become a UN member state.
So, what each of the 193 UN member states does possess what the Palestine does not?

Originally Posted by jabir

If the Pals aspire to genuine peace and prosperity, side by side with Israel, it can only be achieved through sovereignty. Hands up all those who believe they do, won't be many.

If the Pals aspire to destroying Israel, it can still only be done as a sovereign neighbour, not by a few attacks here and there while the whole world can see its people are wilfully deprived of education and most other basics for a viable society.

Either way they need to get their act together, shake off the image of a thoroughly corrupt society governed by two thoroughly corrupt sets of leaders, and demonstrate that they are capable of running a state.


AQ faded to the IS because their plan was plain and simple jihad; they had no plan beyond jihad for the sake of jihad, whereas IS did their dd with infrastructure and trimmings. This is why desperate western leaders celebrate their great victory over the IS in a tiny region, whilst ignoring the fact that it remains a greater global threat than it was before said 'destruction', and that the 'kill zone' will never again be under the control of forces sympathetic to the west.

You are being lied to, and lap it up!

But you are ignoring the fact that *any* time the peace progress has made tangible progress, the blue suede shoes have gone out of their way to be antagonistic and fuck it up.

They want all that Mediterranean oil and gas for themselves.

Not ignoring that at all. But they get away with it because through the bluster those that matter can see the Pals are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit.

They have a chance to achieve sovereignty, which is worthless if it keeps the people as they are right under the thumb of corrupt despots, so imho it would be a leap forward if they were willing to sacrifice those pathetic leaders to reach that goal.

The other side survived 70 years not by being stupid, but by manipulating and exploiting facts on the ground.

Originally Posted by jabir

Not ignoring that at all. But they get away with it because through the bluster those that matter can see the Pals are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit.

They get away with it because the US protects Israel.

The other side survived 70 years not by being stupid

Seventy years pales into insignificance when you are Palestinian, who have continuously occupied their land throughout the millennia. I daresay they have encountered several Nakba in that considerable time. It is one of the longest continuous habitations in human history, if not the longest- for example, Jaffa is considered to be the longest continuously occupied urban environment in human history- only Aleppo in Syria has a competing claim.

Both places are considerably older than Jerusalem, which was already a thriving city by the standards of the time, long before the first Hebrew set eyes upon the place- it was founded by the Canaanites. It was also the capitol of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (larger than neo-Israel/ Palestine) for two centuries. Now, the Old City is divided into Armenian, Christian & Jewish quarters- and has been for a long time.

Only ever the capital of Israel?? Indivisible?? What a contemptible liar Bibi is, representative of the sort of people he represents. Incidentally, Samaria (land of the Samaritans) was not a part of ancient Israel either, which was in fact divided into two kingdoms of Judea & Israel. Jews can never agree upon themselves either.

Originally Posted by sabang

Seventy years pales into insignificance when you are Palestinian, who have continuously occupied their land throughout the millennia. I daresay they have encountered several Nakba in that considerable time. It is one of the longest continuous habitations in human history, if not the longest- for example, Jaffa is considered to be the longest continuously occupied urban environment in human history- only Aleppo in Syria has a competing claim.

Both places are considerably older than Jerusalem, which was already a thriving city by the standards of the time, long before the first Hebrew set eyes upon the place- it was founded by the Canaanites. It was also the capitol of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (larger than neo-Israel/ Palestine) for two centuries. Now, the Old City is divided into Armenian, Christian & Jewish quarters- and has been for a long time.

Only ever the capital of Israel?? Indivisible?? What a contemptible liar Bibi is, representative of the sort of people he represents. Incidentally, Samaria (land of the Samaritans) was not a part of ancient Israel either, which was in fact divided into two kingdoms of Judea & Israel. Jews can never agree upon themselves either.

What are you saying ?
All Muslims , Jews and Christians should give the land to the original inhabitants ?

He's exposed some myths propagated by Bibi & friends.

Originally Posted by stroller

He's exposed some myths propagated by Bibi & friends.

And used some big words, which is why Fluke didn't understand him.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

They get away with it because the US protects Israel.

Ah, right, not because the non-Muslim world can see through the bluster that the Pals through their leaders are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit.

Needs a major shake up that starts at the top, and from past form I doubt it would be bloodless.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

And used some big words, which is why Fluke didn't understand him.

It was his poor choice of words that was confusing .
He used the word "occupied" and he should have used the word *inhabited*
In a thread about occupied territory , its better not to used the word occupied when meaning that someone has been living there
The correct word would be *inhabited*

Originally Posted by jabir

Leave it out, so have the Jews a thousands-year history in the region.

So what, that doesn't give European Jews the right to take over land where indigenous people live, and have lived for thousands of years.

Every time people bring up this "argument" of Jewish settlement for thousands of years they forget that it's not the Jews that have lived there for ages and their families and descendents that are the problem...if it was only them, it would not be a problem because they'd be around 5% of the population of the area.
Somehow, people with the same religion are making a claim.
Lets say my gt gt gt grandfather converted to Zoroastriansim. Does that give me and my kids a right to a section of Iran, even though we have never been there, and neither has my dad, his dad before him nor any of our ancestors that we can reliably trace. No, it's a preposterous idea and I'm sure the Iranians would scoff at it.
So what gives Europen Jews the right to occupy Palestine based on their religion and intangible claims to ancestry?

Originally Posted by jabir

the Pals through their leaders are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit.

How desirable to live for generations under occupation, however, lucky to receive a walfare...
BTW, don't the Israeli receive a pretty welfare either?

Originally Posted by Norton

Ancient history is irrelevant.

True, except in the context of continual occupation (in a habitation sense, for Fluke). The European Jews and the Morrocan Jews et al have not got that, but many Palestinians do, yet they are still ousted. Not fair, not right.

Originally Posted by Norton

The UN partition making Palestine into a zone for the Arabs and a zone for the Jews (Israel) is the one in place today.

Not really. Israel broke out from that and occupied AND settled beyond that partition.

Originally Posted by Norton

the Arabs did not and shortly after attacked Israel

No, Israel attacked. Israel fired the first shots. Couch it as "pre-emptive" if you want, but the fact remains that Israel attacked. It fit with their agenda.

Originally Posted by Norton

Really a dumb move on the Arabs part.

In hindsight, they may agree. Dumb moves don't justify Israel's expansion nor the US's support for it.

Originally Posted by Norton

A place of constant strife with incompetent leaders who still refuse to acknowlege Israel as a legitimate state

Not correct. From an Israeli Jewish source (for one...there are many links negating your assertion.)
"Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine
read more: https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.579701".

Originally Posted by Norton

and in turn Israeli bogus territorial expansion in the name of "security".

Totally bogus. That Golan, eh...gas reserves and arable land. Westbank aquifers. And so on.

Originally Posted by Norton

Fat chance as long as US has veto power.

Correct. And it's high time all 5 powers of veto have their horns lopped. The powers of veto are being abused, blatantly.

Originally Posted by jabir

Ah, right, not because the non-Muslim world can see through the bluster that the Pals through their leaders are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit.

Straight out of the four by two playbook.

They build schools and hospitals, they build agriculture and factories. Then the four by twos say they are terrorist hideouts and blow them up.

It's a great vicious circle. Terrorise them into retaliating then go "OOH OOH LOOK THEY'RE TERRORISTS!".

Not to forget the few ships coming under the guise of international humanitarian help (for Gaza people) but recognized as supplying WMD (such as hammers, nails, etc), so had to be trapped, some of the crew shot...