Thread: Rethinking the state of Israel

Back to business as usual, really. The settlements will continue and Israel and US make an arms deal.

Full Wrath? Gee, what's that? Making a long distance phone call by Hillary?

U.S. and Israel sign massive arms deal
Exclusive / Despite row, U.S. and Israel sign massive arms deal - Haaretz - Israel News

As Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was in Washington this week absorbing the full wrath of the Obama administration, the Pentagon and Israel's defense establishment were in the process of sealing a large arms deal.

According to the deal, Israel will purchase three new Hercules C-130J airplanes. The deal for the three aircrafts, designed by Lockheed Martin, is worth roughly a quarter billion dollars. Each aircraft costs $70 million.

The aircrafts were manufactured specifically for Israeli needs, and include a large number of systems produced by Israel's defense industry.
As Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was in Washington this week absorbing the full wrath of the Obama administration, the Pentagon and Israel's defense establishment were in the process of sealing a large arms deal.

According to the deal, Israel will purchase three new Hercules C-130J airplanes. The deal for the three aircrafts, designed by Lockheed Martin, is worth roughly a quarter billion dollars. Each aircraft costs $70 million.

The aircrafts were manufactured specifically for Israeli needs, and include a large number of systems produced by Israel's defense industry.

The deal will be covered by American foreign assistance funds. The Pentagon will issue a formal announcement on the matter on Thursday evening.

America and Israel have still not reached an agreement regarding the purchase of the Lockheed F-35 war plane. It is still not clear when that deal, which is estimated to be worth more than $3 billion, will finally be sealed and carried out.

If that deal is signed in the near future, Israel will likely receive its first F-35 in 2014.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Panda

This will be a first if USA has the balls to go through with it.

Netya is a tough fucker, only the things he will understand are punch in the face

anything less than a vote for the resolution will be considered soft play by the Israelis

Considering USA normally vetoes every UN resolution condemning Israels war crimes and atrocities, abstaining would let the vote go through unanimously.
A vote without voting in effect. But still a far cry from standing up and condemning the Israeli intransigence and abuse of human rights.
Still only a threat at this stage though.

This is no secret, but it's nice that it's coming out to a broader audience.


The Banquo's Ghost of Israeli Foreign Policy
Max Blumenthal

....However, by assailing Goldstone's reputation to protect Israel from the meticulously documented facts and modest recommendations contained in his report about the assault on Gaza, Israel's right-wing government and its American allies unwittingly summoned the Banquo's Ghost of Israeli foreign policy: the country's longtime military alliance with South Africa's apartheid regime.

Whole article at:
http://www.thenation.com/article/banquos-ghost-israeli-foreign-policy

The more that's known about Israel, the less the world will be susceptible to its phoney pretensions about living out God's proscription.

Israel was once known as a bastion of intellectual freedom of thought and speech in the Middle East. Ben Yahuda Blvd. in Tel Aviv was known for the number of bookstores right there on downtown real estate. Recent skyline pictures I've seen looks like Tourist World Israel Land, ugly in more ways than one.

Anyway....

This is the end of a piece on Israeli ham handed refusal to allow Noam Chomsky to address a group on the West Bank. He's not the only one.

Israel has felt its legitimacy increasingly under attack in the past year and that has added to the debate here over Mr. Chomsky. Another reason Monday’s discussion was so heated is that Mr. Chomsky is not the first controversial figure denied entry in the past few years to Israel or the West Bank.
Late last month, Ivan Prado, one of Spain’s most famous clowns, spent six hours at Ben-Gurion airport in Tel Aviv being questioned by security agents before being sent back to Madrid. He had planned to run a clown festival modeled after one in Spain in the West Bank city of Ramallah but was accused of having ties with Palestinian terrorist groups by the Israelis.
A Foreign Ministry spokesman said Mr. Prado was caught lying during questioning at the airport and that his cellphone, which he denied having, contained a telephone number of a Palestinian who Israel considered to be a member of a terrorist group.
In January, Jared Malsin, a young American editor working in Bethlehem for a Palestinian news agency, was barred from re-entering at Ben-Gurion airport after officials said he would not answer questions satisfactorily.
In December 2008, Israel barred Richard Falk, an American who is a United Nations investigator of human rights in the Palestinian areas, saying he was hostile to Israel. He was seized at the airport and not permitted to enter.
And a few months earlier that year, Norman Finkelstein, a scholar who is a critic of Israel and its policies, wasbarred from entering after a visit in Lebanon that included conversations with officials of Hezbollah. Israeli officials said that Mr. Finkelstein refused to describe the nature of those conversations.

Whole article on:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/world/middleeast/18chomsky.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Originally Posted by MrG

I just never got into any of the old Jewish Conspiracy thing, and I've never seen any meaningful evidence to support it.

Nazis thought that they are the superior race. They have done a lot of "crazy" things to keep the blood clean.
Israel does not allow mixed marriages in order to keep the blood clean. Being the superior race is what Israel politicians and rabbis claim all the time.
Could be a reason why jews are loved all arround this world ?


No conspiracy there or ?

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Israel does not allow mixed marriages in order to keep the blood clean

Israel does allow mixed marriages though- they are certainly not the norm, but there are several marriages between Arab Israeli's and Israeli Jews.

Sure there are some bigoted Jews, and some are quite ugly- like those execrable right wing Settlers, the types who inhabit the illegal outposts and think it's fun to teach their kids to throw rocks at the Palestinians who's land they are stealing- but there are bigots in every society.

Really, my argument with Israel ends with getting them out of the illegally occupied territories.

Some fairly nasty protests in Jerusalem against Rahm Emanuel- and hence the Obama government- by the usual suspects. Doesn't seem to matter to them he was there for his sons Bar Mitzvah, not a state visit.

According to Ha'aretz, earlier in the day, the Emanuel family "surrounded by heavy security, was met during the visit by a crowd of angry far-rightists who accused him of being an 'anti-Semite' and 'hating Israel.' Police forces were on hand to dispel the demonstrators and to arrest their leaders, Itamar Ben-Gvir and Baruch Maezel."

The sooner the Emanuel family gets out of Jerusalem the better. There are few places in the world where President Obama is hated as much as he is in Jerusalem. Why? The combination of racism and the fear that Obama will actually produce an end to the occupation drives rightwing Israelis crazy and East Jerusalem's Jews are predominantly Orthodox settlers.

Now that the Bar Mitzvah is over, the Emanuels should get themselves to liberal secular Tel Aviv, Eilat, Haifa, a kibbutz, or just come home. One last thing: the President should not set foot in Israel so long as Israel's equivalent of the tea party right dominates the culture. If the half-Israeli, all-Jewish chief-of-staff to a President who provides Israel with more aid, by far, than any other country is not safe in Israel, who is? (Obama himself just approved an extra $200 million in aid; Israel is exempt to all the cuts applied here). The good news is that Rahm now has a hint of the kind of hate Palestinians endure nonstop.

It's time for the real Israelis (secular, liberal, tolerant, progressive) to take their country back. They should start by dumping the current government of fanatics. If they won't, America needs to start tightening the screws. A country cannot claim to be our best ally in the world when our leaders aren't safe there. It's time to re-think this relationship.

I look forward to the day the occupation ends and Israel can again be, what it once was, a strategic and moral asset to America and country of which all Jews can be proud. That is not the case today. Far from it.
MJ Rosenberg: The Shame Of Israel: Son of Rahm's Tight Security Bar Mitzvah

^ Couldn't agree more. I think the real 'self-hating Jews' are the Israeli Right.

The right wing religious loonies of Israel is the reason why Israel was destroyed not once, but twice in the last 3000 years

they say good things come in three, let's hope it's true for Israel

it was obviously a mistake, a mistake to remember

^^ In a follow up to Sabang's post above.

A Jew is calling another Jew an "anti-semite" again over politics.

We know Jews are not actually Semites for the most part. Rahm is an Israeli citizen who fought with the IDF, also.

But here we go again.

Israeli Heckler Calls Rahm Emanuel "Anti-Semite"

Posted by Robert Berger 45 comments
JERUSALEM -- White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel got a hot welcome to Jerusalem's Old City Thursday. Arriving to celebrate his son's Bar Mitzvah, President Obama's right-hand-man was heckled by far right-wing Israeli activist Itamar Ben-Gvir.

"You are an anti-Semite, a hypocrite who hates Israel!" Ben-Gvir shouted. "You want Israel to return to the 1967 borders. Shame on you!"

Many Israelis feel betrayed by Emanuel, whose father is Israeli. They blame him for what they see as President Obama's anti-Israel policy.

Ties between Israel and the U.S. have plummeted since Mr. Obama took office last year. The President demanded a freeze on Jewish construction in the West Bank and disputed East Jerusalem, charging that the settlements were an obstacle to peace with the Palestinians.

LInk & Entire: Israeli Heckler Calls Rahm Emanuel "Anti-Semite" - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Israel does not allow mixed marriages in order to keep the blood clean

Israel does allow mixed marriages though- they are certainly not the norm, but there are several marriages between Arab Israeli's and Israeli Jews.

Sure there are some bigoted Jews, and some are quite ugly- like those execrable right wing Settlers, the types who inhabit the illegal outposts and think it's fun to teach their kids to throw rocks at the Palestinians who's land they are stealing- but there are bigots in every society.

Really, my argument with Israel ends with getting them out of the illegally occupied territories.

Sorry Sabang, maybe I expressed myself a little bit unclear. I saw this report on TV the other night and was a bit shocked. It was about Cypris and the marriage tourism of Israelies. When I googled it I came up with this.

But when Oriah and Moshe decided to marry, the local rabbi told them that Israeli law forbids Jews to marry Christians.

Religion: Mixed Marriages in Israel - TIME

Irit Rosenblum, Advocate, chairperson of New Family says that the State of Israel refuses to offer a solution to non-Jew Israelis who want to marry Jewish partners forcing them to travel abroad to receive what they should be entitled to. "The fact that there is no official marriage registration causes a violation of the civil rights of these citizens," said Rosenblum.

1 in 10 marriages in Israel is mixed - Israel Jewish Scene, Ynetnews

MIXED MARRIAGES:
With the exception of consular marriages, a marriage between a Jew and non-Jew may not be performed in Israel. Either the non-Jewish partner must convert to Judaism or the Jewish partner must convert to the religion of the other.
Whether two persons of different non-Jewish religious communities may marry depends on the religious laws of the religious communities involved.

U.S. Embassy Israel

We love your money and support...but don't marry our daughters and sons. That's the official messages to the US from Israel. Some Friendship !!!!
Israel always has two laws! The official and the one to be broken.
A person with two tongues can never be trusted !

General Situation of Mixed Marriages in Israel

While the precise number of mixed marriages in Israel between Arabs and Jews is unknown, International Crisis Group qualifies them as rare (4 Mar. 2004, 2) and Newsday reported that there are estimates running from several hundred to well over a thousand (27 Apr. 2002). The Newsday article indicates that the vast majority of cases comprise "Arab men who are citizens of Israel and Jewish women" (27 Apr. 2002); couples made up of Palestinians from the Occupied Territories and Israeli Jews are a rare occurrence (Newsday 27 Apr. 2002). According to Newsday, few marriages survive, with many couples eventually separating, divorcing or leaving the country, "particularly when they have children and face the entrenched biases and impediments here" (ibid.).
UNHCR | Refworld | Israel: Mixed-marriage couples and families (particularly of an Arab husband and a Jewish wife); reports of such couples being targeted by Orthodox Jewish groups or any difficulties they may face; protection and recourse available

There are Israeli Christians, and plenty of Israeli Atheists. The biggest 'congregation' as I understand it is the liberal Reform synagogues. Some marriages do happen.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

The right wing religious loonies of Israel is the reason why Israel was destroyed not once, but twice in the last 3000 years

they say good things come in three, let's hope it's true for Israel

Why are frogs in charge of France? They clearly do not deserve it.

As for Israel - yep they are horrible.

And they are about 500 times better than the Muslim raghead terrorist neighbors.

The only democracy in the middle east.

There is a nice video on you tube that depicts the Romans dispersing the Jews throughout the Provinces [Europe], considering them a threat to the Empire, where they succeeded beyond all expectations even when prohibited to do "honest work". Therefore few laborers and more lawyers, doctors as well as diamond experts since their position required security and portability. Over time this created resentment culminating in Hitlers "Final Solution".After the war, out of guilt and self interested the Allies needed another "Ghetto", the state of Israel was only created after intense terrorist activity against colonial GB, as well as punishing the Arabs who mostly supported the Axis. Again succeeding beyond expectations as well as resentment. They had succeeded in the previously forbidden occupations of farming and soldiering. Naturally the Palestinians who had supplanted the Jews were not pleased. Most of the non Jewish world no matter the protestations prefer not to have Jewish neighbors and the Israelis know it, Therefore if you agree with the above where do you relocate them to?

Then we have the powerful Zionist lobby in the USA, UK, etc. as well to contend with.

Originally Posted by dotcom

Why are frogs in charge of France? They clearly do not deserve it.

As for Israel - yep they are horrible.

And they are about 500 times better than the Muslim raghead terrorist neighbors.

The only democracy in the middle east.

I'am not a big supporter of the ragheads either. But calling Israel a democracy is a big joke. When it comes to treating women, muslims and jews are almost the same...Bastards. Try getting a divorce from a Hassadic jew or any of those curly Knuckleheads.
Imagine you want to marry a non christian in the U.S. and you have to go to Mexico. Fine democracy. This is just a little example of a so called democratic laws of Israel.
Treating their own people like the SS....imagine what the muslims have to go through in Israel ??!!!

And then, after all that, and serving the israel army, which some people that have a binding covenant with the Torah and halacha don’t, we still can’t even get a legally-recognized marriage in our own Jewish state. I guess Olga and Nico can just make pretend they’re married, just like they make pretend they’re Jews.

For many Israelis, such requirements simply are untenable. Consequently, thousands of Israelis leave their home country to get married abroad, most often flying to nearby Cyprus. They marry abroad either because they do not qualify for wedlock — the state has determined them not marriage-worthy — or because they want to bypass the religious establishment. Israel’s archaic approach to marriage can be traced back to the state’s establishment, when then-Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion conceded authority over religion and personal-status issues — such as birth, marriage and divorce — to the Orthodox Jewish establishment.

[quote]

Israel's Peres denies South Africa nuclear weapons deal

Israel's President Shimon Peres has denied a report which claims there was an alleged nuclear pact between Israel and apartheid South Africa. Documents to be published in a new book show Israel agreed to give South Africa nuclear weapons in 1975, the Guardian newspaper has reported. Mr Peres was Israel's defence minister at the time and was named in the Guardian article.

The news comes as tension over nuclear weapons in the region is increasing.
Mr Peres' spokeswoman, Ayelet Frisch, said there was "no basis, no foundation in reality" for the reports. "We regret that the paper used in the story documents by the South African government officials rather than documents that present the facts," a statement given to the BBC said. "Israel did not conduct any negotiations for the sale of nuclear weapons to South Africa and none of the aforementioned documents are original signed Israeli documents that confirm the existence of such talks of such negotiations."
The president is going to write a letter to the Guardian demanding "the right facts" be reported, the statement said.

'Ambiguity'
The Guardian reported that the previously secret documents, unearthed by American academic Sasha Polakow-Suransky, provided the first official documentary evidence of the existence of Israeli nuclear weapons.
Israel operates a policy of "ambiguity" over its nuclear programme, but in 1986 Israeli nuclear technician Mordechai Vanunu revealed details of a nuclear reactor in Israel. The Federation of American Scientists estimates Israel could have produced up to 200 nuclear weapons.

The Guardian also said the documents could undermine any claim that Israel might make that it is a responsible country and can be trusted to hold nuclear weapons, while Iran is not.

The alleged deal also indicates the strength of the relationship between the Israeli government and apartheid South Africa, the Guardian said.

Makes sense. Racist, apartheid regimes...birds of a feather. I look forward to seeing if those documents make the case.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10146075.stm

Yep, Iran is soooooo responsible.

People who don't eat pork are evil.

They will never be allowed in my barbecue parties in the mountain.

[Dans le cochon tout est bon]

Antisemitism is not a sign, a symbol,
a bullet or a gas. It is a Virus - Vanderleun

Txs for the Turk post. The guy is a nutter or he is being paid off. Or both.

Why argue as there are no solutions. Occupy the land and the newspapers and the websites. Control or be controlled.

For more than four decades, the settlement movement has distinguished itself in bending, defying, ignoring, exploiting, autonomously redefining and retroactively manipulating the law, the judicial system, the civil government and the military of Israel. All Israelis know it. Many approve of it. Most suffer it in silence. But everyone knows it.


At a time when Palestinian militants are largely silent, how long will the public continue to support the crushing cost of the settlements, the ever-expanding price to Israel's diplomatic standing, its military burdens, and the diversion of much needed resources to correct social-welfare burdens within the country?

A Special Place in Hell / As Bibi faces Obama, settlers try radical shifts in tactics - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


Part of rethinking the state of Israel rests on Israeli's rethinking their own country. The Settler movement and the Haredim (ultra-Orthodox Jews) are both professional leeches on the state of Israel, massive financial drains and Political and Diplomatic albatrosses. They contribute nothing, save perhaps Settlers form an inordinate amount of career Officers in the IDF- although they are in fact part of the problem. Haredim avoid military service altogether, have massive families and often refuse to work.

Why should these leeches, who rarely play any positive part in the functioning of the modern state of Israel, be the main reason for Israeli foot dragging and intransigence in forming a Palestinian state? Why should they be the reason Israel is a diplomatic pariah worldwide? The average Israeli is not one of these people at all.

Leeches though they are, they hold an inordinate amount of power in the faction ridden Israeli Knesset. And Settlers comprise an inordinate amount of the top Israeli military & security agency leadership.

Originally Posted by sabang

Why should these leeches, who rarely play any positive part in the functioning of the modern state of Israel, be the main reason for Israeli foot dragging and intransigence in forming a Palestinian state? Why should they be the reason Israel is a diplomatic pariah worldwide? The average Israeli is not one of these people at all. Leeches though they are, they hold an inordinate amount of power in the faction ridden Israeli Knesset. And Settlers comprise an inordinate amount of the top Israeli military & security agency leadership.

Excellent point, and probably not widely known outside of Israel.

I suggest they are as much pawns of the state as they are leeches. The State of Israel uses them and their children as colonists for their intended takeover of the occupied territories. It's a symbiotic relationship they have with the State, and one more reason the present situation is unsupportable in the long run.