Ukraine war mega thread

[helge]

Mayor Klitsko says that 71 buildings were hit, among them 45 residential.

Mayor of Lviv says that water and electric has been hit.

Doesnt correspond with the alleged 31 missiles getting through


Also:

Rumour has it that 20000 russian troops has been stationed near the belarus border north of Kiev

Too much pressure on the russians down south ?

[helge]

"For the enemies of Russia, the morning does not start with coffee" - General Surovikin, Supreme Commander of Russian Forces

Fucking hell

Apocalypse Now and Again

[sabang]

Don’t kill the messenger, but listen: America’s approach to this tragic war in Ukraine requires an urgent if not creative adjustment.


Elon Musk is right.

Perhaps not in the particulars of the peace settlement for Ukraine that he recently proposed for his millions of Twitter followers — and which is drawing much the same venomous reaction online that has been directed at other advocates of peace, including the Pope and Representative Ro Khanna.

Such a settlement can only be determined over the course of multi-dimensional diplomatic negotiations involving Russia, Ukraine, the United States, and Europe that would almost certainly require months, if not years, of high-stakes engagement. The specific terms that might form the basis of any agreement are impossible to know in advance.

But Musk is right that if things in Ukraine continue along their present course, the United States and Russia are headed toward a collision that could have catastrophic consequences for all parties to the conflict and for the world. And he is right that America’s approach to this mounting problem requires an urgent adjustment.

Musk appears to grasp what the Biden administration does not: that Putin is not following the script we have written for him in Ukraine. That script involves a calculation of costs and benefits that will lead him to back away from a confrontation with the United States and NATO that he cannot win. When we make those costs plain, we reason, he will realize that they far outweigh any potential benefits of aggression for him and for Russia.

But, again and again, as we have forced him to reckon with these costs, he has not reacted in the ways we have expected. Faced early this year with the explicit warning of draconian U.S. and European economic sanctions and military countermoves if Russia were to invade Ukraine, he followed through on his threats rather than backing off. Then, when the combination of Ukrainian courage and Western military technology blocked his bid to capture Kyiv, he upped the ante by unleashing a brutal torrent of artillery and rocket strikes on Ukrainian defenses in the Donbas region, betting that Russia’s vast stockpiles of munitions could outlast those of Ukraine and the West.

Now, in response to the successful Ukrainian counter-offensive in the Donbas, he is once again doubling down rather than backing off. In opting to mobilize Russia’s military reservists, ramp up Russia’s defense industry, annex more Ukrainian territory, and threaten a nuclear response if Russia is attacked, he is intensifying rather than defusing the war.

Why? Conventional wisdom cites Putin’s own aggression. And there are some merits to this explanation. The awkward pre-invasion spectacle in which Putin dressed down key Russian government officials on national television while they cowered before him suggests that he has grown disdainful of aides and unreceptive to alternative policy views. A different leader might well have handled matters differently, even if he – like much of Russia’s political elite – shared Putin’s views of Ukraine and mistrust of the West.

But the fact that so many in Russia have grave concerns about the prospect of encirclement by the United States and NATO suggests that Russian conduct in Ukraine has sources beyond Putin himself. When states fear their survival is at stake, they can engage in shockingly reckless behavior. Former American Secretary of State Dean Acheson alluded to this phenomenon in describing how the United States misread Imperial Japan’s intentions in the months prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor:

This misreading was not of what the Japanese military government proposed to do in Asia, not of the hostility our embargo would excite, but of the incredibly high risks General Tojo would assume to accomplish his ends. No one in Washington realized that he and his regime regarded the conquest of Asia not as an accomplishment of an ambition but as the survival of the regime. It was a life-and-death matter to them. They were absolutely unwilling to continue in what they regarded as Japan’s precarious position surrounded by great and hostile powers—the United States, the Soviet Union, and a possibly revived and restored China.

Each of these diagnoses of our Russia malady — Putin’s misguided ambition versus Russia’s existential fear of Western encirclement — points in a contrasting policy direction. The classic prescription for dealing with an offensive-minded foe is to confront it with overwhelming counter-pressure while avoiding Munich-style appeasement. But just as with Japan in the period leading to World War II, such an approach fuels risk-taking when dealing with a state that feels increasingly cornered and desperate, and it can be particularly dangerous when that state has nuclear weapons.

The problem is that Russia fits both these descriptions. To a significant degree, Putin’s bellicosity reflects the rise of Russian nationalists, whose influence has been growing not only in the military and security services but also in grassroots society. Aggrieved and combative, they are pressing the Kremlin to regather traditional Russian lands, including Belarus and parts of Ukraine. They have long viewed Putin as too eager to make deals with the West and too hesitant to defend compatriots abroad.

But paradoxically, these aspirations are also rooted in a sense of vulnerability and weakness. Russia’s vast open plains and long history of foreign invasions have prompted its leaders for centuries to seek safety by putting geographic distance between its heartland and potential invaders. They see Russia’s greatness as a vital source of security, not just prestige. Many are convinced the West is intent on Russia’s demise rather than its democratic revival, and they are far from complacent about the stability of their present federation.

Managing this peculiar mix of ambition and fear poses a formidable challenge. It requires a delicate balance between pushing back against Russian belligerence – as we have been doing quite effectively in Ukraine – and engaging diplomatically to prevent a descent toward a direct conflict – which we have largely neglected. The resolution of the Cuban missile crisis, which involved both an American ultimatum threatening a military attack and a parallel offer to trade the removal of Soviet missiles from Cuba for the removal of American missiles from Italy and Turkey, provides an example of how that balance can work.

Musk has done much to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia’s invasion. Now he is doing Ukraine, the United States, and the world a service in highlighting the need for a diplomatic track to accompany the military pushback we have employed so far against Russia in Ukraine. Confronting Putin with a choice between humiliation and nuclear escalation is a formula for disaster.

Why Elon Musk is right - Responsible Statecraft

[helge]

Not to mention that the Russians used seawater to extinguish the fire, accelerating corrosion on all the exposed steel that just had its paint coat burned off.

Yep, will have to clean prime and paint where needed.

Not much salt in Sea of Asov.

But you knew that, didn't you ?

[sabang]

Russians can't prime, or paint. Russian paint is inferior, no good. All the Russian painters are sloshed on vodka. Azov sea salt is the most corrosive in the known Universe, and it has gotten even worse since they took Mariupol.

Sorry, snubby is still sleeping it off- so I took the liberty of answering for him.

[Hugh Cow]

I will bet you $100 USD right now that that idiot is wrong. Care to take the bet? To make it legit, we can have someone like AO or Stump as the "potholder". Both of us can send them the c note, and they can return the pot to the winner. The question is when is the war over? I think by the end of next summer, Russia will have lost all Ukrainian territories behind the 1991 borders.

That dude you think is so bright is an utter buffoon. Everything he is saying laughable.

You have a lot of humiliation coming if you think that the Ukrainian offensive is "stalled"

You dont think he will actually take you up on that do you? He, ohoh and backspin are just anti western propaganda trolls. They would have to be monumentally stupid to believe that shite they recycle here.
Jacob Dreizin wrote an article titled, "Why most U.S. weapons systems are worse than Russias." FFS. Does anyone need to know any more about this idiot.
Maybe they could just ask the Russians how their superior weapons are working out for them in Ukraine.

[helge]

More utter shit from one of your idiot, snivelling Putin apologists. I am a NAFO guy btw, and it has nothing to do with "think tanks" that bitch is full of shit.

The North Atlantic Fellas Organization (NAFO; a play on NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization) is an Internet meme and social mediamovement dedicated to countering Russianpropaganda and disinformation about the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.^[1][2][3][4]
In addition to posting irreverent commentary about the war and memes promoting Ukraine or mocking the Russian war effort and strategy ("shitposting"), the group also raises funds for the Ukrainian military and other pro-Ukrainian causes.^[1][3] The representation of a NAFO "Fella" is a Shiba Inu dog, often used as an avatar and sometimes described as a "cartoon dog"^[3][5] or a "group of Shiba Inu soldiers."^[6] According to The Economist, "NAFO's flippancy obscures its role as a remarkably successful form of information warfare."^[2]

I'll send NAFO a letter of recommendation.

You are exellent in 'shitposting'

Goofy

So you are what you accuse others of being

Oh dear

[helge]

are just anti western propaganda trolls

Bsnub is a pro western troll.

But a troll

Can't believe he admitted to that

Sorry, snubby is still sleeping it off- so I took the liberty of answering for him.

Nope, he attends the weekly NAFO stand up bingo

the group also raises funds for the Ukrainian military and other pro-Ukrainian causes.^[1][3]

Donated a Rolex yet, moi petite chicken hawk ?

[bsnub]

Drunk heldge trolling while accusing others of (you guessed it) trolling.



Technically, you should be the fourth member of TD's Three Stooges.

Donated a Rolex yet, moi petite chicken hawk ?

Another triggered loser.

[sabang]

Jacob Dreizin wrote an article titled, "Why most U.S. weapons systems are worse than Russias." FFS. Does anyone need to know any more about this idiot.

"Two reasons: complexity, and too much money"

FULL- EPIC FAIL: Why Most US Weapons Systems Are Worse than Russia's


Dreizin is amerkin you know, ex-US Army. Anyone who wants to read it can decide for themself.

[Backspin]

According to Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council, the security of Russia, its borders and citizens can be ensured only in case of "full dismantling of the political regime of Ukraine", which is impossible without total military and economic defeat of Ukraine.

And finally, we call on the citizens of Ukraine, who are in the territory controlled by the Kiev regime, at least to avoid being and even more work at military, administrative, logistical and energy facilities, as well as, if possible, leave Ukraine before the final dismantling of the Kiev junta by allied forces.

You can go to Europe or to Russia. We do not consider citizens of Ukraine as enemies; our state is ready and provides all possible help to Ukrainian refugees, including granting citizenship in the most simplified mode and in a short time.

Telegram: Contact @Slavyangrad

[bsnub]

if possible, leave Ukraine before the final dismantling of the Kiev junta by allied forces.

Good luck with that. What happened today was a tantrum triggered by the Kerch Bridge missile strike. The Ukrainian army will continue its offensives in Luhansk oblast and Kherson. Today's terror attack on civilians does not change the fact that Russia is going to lose this war.

[misskit]

‘Countries of the West send in their scum to die as mercenaries’ How the Kremlin tells propagandists to talk about the war and to minimize the Crimean Bridge blast

Once again, Meduza has gained access to the Kremlin-issued guidelines for Russian propagandists. This time, it’s a memo on how the pro-Kremlin media should talk about the recent Crimean Bridge blast. The Russian President’s Office instructed the state-controlled media and bloggers to present the explosion as something that has “split the American establishment on the question of supporting the terrorist Ukrainian state.” Meduza’s special correspondent Andrey Pertsev reports on how the Russian state would like its citizens to think of the security failure on the bridge.

The guidelines accentuate the ease with which the Crimean Bridge is going to be restored. “The hysteria around the explosion was completely artificial, and the damage grossly exaggerated by the Kyiv propaganda,” says the Kremlin’s new memo to the media. It also advises propagandists to say that the blast led to a greater “unity” and solidarity, and that “there’s no panic or fear.” Instead, it recommends saying something like this:


People are very understanding of the temporary difficulties and the auto checkpoints. They reveal their better qualities by helping out at gas stations, sharing their fuel, and caring for those who are stranded in Crimea. The resorts, the hospitality and private sectors are all extending the dates of their visitors’ stays free of charge, so that they could leave calmly once transportation is working again.

When addressing the facts of the explosion, the memo gathers them under the section title “Strengthening Russia.”


The section devoted to the so-called “special operation,” which continues to be the official euphemism for the war, says that the Ukrainian armed forces “stand no chance of advancing further” in their Kherson offensive.

The President’s Office also recommends saying that “in the West’s war against Russia ‘to the last Ukrainian’, Ukrainians are starting to run out.” Another suggested thesis is this:


Countries of the West can send in their own scum to die as mercenaries [in the Ukrainian war]. Ukrainian formations deployed in the Kyiv-controlled part of Zaporizhzhia now have an equal number of AFU troops and foreign mercenaries.

The mass media are also encouraged to spread the idea that, due to its support of Ukraine, Germany is now running out of weapons. “Weapons deliveries to Ukraine have depleted the military reserves of the NATO countries, which are being effectively demilitarized by Russia,” the memo suggests.


The subsection on “The New World Order” suggests that the United States is busy preparing the public for “ditching the Kyiv regime.” To support this thesis, the pro-Krelin press is supposed to quote the former US president Donald Trump and the former State Department spokesman John Kirby, both of whom have recently urged that talks begin immediately between Ukraine and Russia.


Apart from these recommendations, a source close to the Russian Presidential Office has told Meduza that the Kremlin has commissioned its opinion-polling contractor, VTsIOM, to conduct a poll on how the Russian society feels about the Crimean Bridge explosion: “A broad range of questions will be asked, about attitudes towards the war and towards Ukraine. There’s also concern about the Russians’ attitudes towards Zelensky.”


https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/10...as-mercenaries

[misskit]

^ Our Putin fans will be along to post articles/opinions repeating this misinformation. 3….2….1

[misskit]

Who is ‘General Armageddon?’ The new commander leading Russia’s forces in Ukraine is reportedly a proponent of targeting civilian infrastructure

On October 8, the same day a large explosion hit the bridge connecting Crimea and Russia, the Russian Defense Ministry announced that General Sergey Surovikin had been appointed the new commander of Russia's forces in Ukraine. The announcement marks the first time an individual has been officially declared to be in charge of the war effort; previously, only the commanders leading specific groups of forces were named publicly by the ministry. Surovikin, who Russian media has referred to as "General Armageddon" for his ability to act "brutally" in war, first made headlines during the failed 1991 Soviet coup, when three protesters were killed under his command. A summary of what we know about the new leader of Russia's troops in Ukraine.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu has appointed a new commander to lead Russia’s forces in Ukraine: General Sergey Surovikin. In 2017, Surovikin was made the Commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces, and since the start of Russia’s war against Ukraine, he’s led Russia’s “South” group of forces, which captured the city of Sievierodonetsk.


This is the first time the Russian Defense Ministry has publicly announced the appointment of a commander to lead all of the country’s invading forces in Ukraine. Until Surovikin’s appointment, only the names of commanders of various military groupings were released publicly, while the only information about the people making the decisions guiding the Russian army as a whole came from sources speaking to journalists. In April, BBC News reported that General Alexander Dvornikov, the head of Russia’s Southern Military District, had been put in control of the country’s war effort in Ukraine. Later, a group of independent investigators from the Conflict Intelligence Team, citing a source, reported that Deputy Defense Minister Gennady Zhidko had replaced Dvornikov as the leader of Russia’s troops.


Sources told Meduza months ago that Surovikin was expecting a promotion. A source close to the Putin administration and a source close to the Russian government said that there was talk of Surovikin being given either a key post in the Russian Defense Ministry or a being put in charge of Russia’s forces in the Donbas.


As both Russian and Ukrainian Telegram channels have pointed out, Surovikin’s appointment comes amid a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive, which liberated Lyman, a city in the Donetsk region, in October as well as forcing Russian troops to flee the northern part of the Kherson region.

Surovikin’s name might sound familiar to people old enough to remember the failed 1991 Soviet coup. Now 55 years old, Surovikin once served in the Soviet special forces, including in Afghanistan. During the 1991 coup attempt, the then-24-year-old was in charge of the 2nd Guards Motor Rifle Division, which tried to break through the barricades at the intersection of Moscow’s Garden Ring and Novy Arbat Avenue. Three protesters were killed in the clashes: Dmitry Komar, Ilya Krichevsky, and Vladimir Usov. After the coup plotters’ swift defeat, the three men were posthumously named Heroes of the Soviet Union. Surovikin spent several months in custody, but the charges against him were ultimately lifted (the Moscow Prosecutor's Office determined that he had been “carrying out the orders of his command”).


Wagner PMC founder Evgeny Prigozhin (whose forces have played an active role in Russia’s war against Ukraine, and who has repeatedly criticized the leadership of Russia’s Defense Ministry) responded to the news of Surovikin’s appointment by harkening back to his role in the coup attempt. “After receiving orders,” Prigozhin said, Surovikin “got in his tank without hesitation and rushed to save his country.”

Sergey Surovikin later took part in the armed conflict that rocked Tajikistan in the early 1990s and in the Second Chechen War. Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov wrote on Saturday that he’s known Surovikin well for almost 15 years, adding that “the united group of forces is now in good hands” and that he’s confident Surovikin will “make things right” at the front.

Surovikin also led Russian troops in Syria. Surovikin was appointed a commander of Russian forces in Syria in May 2017. In October of that year, he was put in charge of the Russian Aerospace Forces, and that December, he was named a Hero of Russia for the operation he led in Syria. In August 2021, Surovikin was promoted to the rank of general — the highest rank held by any officer currently serving in Russia’s military.


https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/10...ral-armageddon

[harrybarracuda]

Elon Musk is right.

He's a fucking twat and all of his ridiculous tweets are being used as propaganda.

[harrybarracuda]

"Two reasons: complexity, and too much money"

FULL- EPIC FAIL: Why Most US Weapons Systems Are Worse than Russia's


Dreizin is amerkin you know, ex-US Army. Anyone who wants to read it can decide for themself.

I read it and I decided it's a load of bollocks.

The paedophile you support so much is "ex-US Army" as well.

[harrybarracuda]

Who is ‘General Armageddon?’ The new commander leading Russia’s forces in Ukraine is reportedly a proponent of targeting civilian infrastructure

So a war criminal then. No surprise there when his boss is one.

[helge]

The Russians basically committed another massive strategic blunder,

Exactly. No strategic value whatsoever.

Careful, Pickel

He is an influenzer

[bsnub]

He is an influenzer

And you are a fool, a drunk one at that.

[pickel]

Careful, Pickel

He is an influenzer

And you are a shit disturbing contrarian troll, who, on the extremely rare occasion, actually posts an opinion. And sometimes I agree with it. You should try it more often.

[mackayae]

"Why most U.S. weapons systems are worse than Russias."
Let's hope the captain of K-329 has Mammoet-Smit's phone number.

[panama hat]

So a war criminal then. No surprise there when his boss is one.

Why does our Moscow-trio admire war criminals so?

[sabang]

??? I promise you I am absolutely no fan of dubya and those evil Neo-cons. Just look at the death and devastation they have wrought. Makes this current stoush look like a picnic.

[harrybarracuda]

And you are a shit disturbing contrarian troll, who, on the extremely rare occasion, actually posts an opinion. And sometimes I agree with it. You should try it more often.

Nah, he's just a scandihooligan twat.