Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

snubbs might like this ...

I do and I reference it often. Thanks for thinking of me.

The majority of the residents of the four seceded provinces definitely do not think 'Russia and Ukraine should be one country'.

Once again, you post this bald faced lie. In almost every liberated village and town in Ukraine, the people pour out of their hiding spots to greet their Ukrainian liberators. Russia is being defeated and Ukraine will never be a part of Russia.

Stop the delusion.

[sabang]

You can't tell me with a straight face snubbed that all of the residents of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zapo & Kherson who voted to secede (90%+!) were individually held at gunpoint by armed soldiers and forced to vote that way against their will.

Stop the delusion.

[bsnub]

You can't tell me with a straight face snubbed that all of the residents of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zapo & Kherson who voted to secede (90%+!) were individually held at gunpoint by armed soldiers and forced to vote that way against their will.

That vote is a joke, and you are an utter buffoon to think it has a shred of credibility, but then again you were stupid enough to think the vote in Crimea was legit too. You are a full stop clown. You clearly have seen the video posted of the Chechen mercenary escorting Russian puppet's door to door strong-arming people for votes.

I would prefer they all stop fighting in Ukraine and go home. I am sure bsnub would like to see the same. But they don't and instead grinding them into fertilizer is an acceptable second choice.

Thank you and you are correct.

[sabang]

I would like nothing more than for a proper Referendum to be held under independent, UN supervision. Of course it would only serve to confirm what we already know, and could only be achieved after a peace deal or sustainable ceasefire is arrived at. And you can bet your bottom dollar the Ukies would fiercely oppose it, because they fully know the outcome in advance as well as any other person with a shred of common sense. By a very comfortable majority, they want to reunite with Russia. Of course, given recent Ukrainian advances, there must be a growing question in some residents mind- can Russia protect them in their decision? Yet to be demonstrated.

[misskit]

10 torture sites in 1 town: Russia sowed pain, fear in Izium

IZIUM, Ukraine (AP) — The first time the Russian soldiers caught him, they tossed him bound and blindfolded into a trench covered with wooden boards for days on end.


Then they beat him, over and over: Legs, arms, a hammer to the knees, all accompanied by furious diatribes against Ukraine. Before they let him go, they took away his passport and Ukrainian military ID — all he had to prove his existence — and made sure he knew exactly how worthless his life was.


“No one needs you,” the commander taunted. “We can shoot you any time, bury you a half-meter underground and that’s it.”


The brutal encounter at the end of March was just the start. Andriy Kotsar would be captured and tortured twice more by Russian forces in Izium, and the pain would be even worse.

Russian torture in Izium was arbitrary, widespread and absolutely routine for both civilians and soldiers throughout the city, an Associated Press investigation has found. While torture was also evident in Bucha, that devastated Kyiv suburb was only occupied for a month. Izium served as a hub for Russian soldiers for nearly seven months, during which they established torture sites everywhere.

MORE 10 torture sites in 1 town: Russia sowed pain, fear in Izium | AP News

[bsnub]

And you can bet your bottom dollar the Ukies would fiercely oppose it, because they fully know the outcome in advance as well as any other person with a shred of common sense.

Total BS as always from you.

Another clueless delusional post that goes against reality. Ukrainians want to be part of Ukraine not Russia and every time the partisans behind the lines of occupation detonate a car bomb, or execute a targeted assassination of Russian appointed puppet officials it is further evidence of that reality. Civilians cry and cheering after being liberated by Ukrainian soldiers...

[bsnub]

A great interview with American General HR McMaster...

[sabang]

You are totally propagandised, childish, anti-intellectual and lack any objectivity or credibility snubs. Thus there is no point wasting time debating you- as I have repeatedly pointed out, my posts are not aimed at boneheads.

[Norton]

I would like nothing more than for a proper Referendum to be held under independent, UN supervision

The Ukraine like all nations has a Constitution which allows a province to succede from the Ukraine. For the Ukraine, takes an all Ukraine referendum with 2/3rd agreement. If Western Aus wanted a referendum to succede, it would need permission to do so from Canberra.

No way the UN has the right to enforce a referendum be held for a province to succede from the Ukraine and Russia sure as hell doesn't.

[sabang]

So, it isn't legal under the Ukrainian Constitution, or International law. But we already know that. Lots of things aren't- one hardly needs remind an American of that, or Brit. The Maidan Revolution wasn't legal, either. And the Ukrainian government has hardly provided an enlightened example of democratic governance, or nation building, ever since. The nation is a basket case, with a falling population, Europe's highest corruption rate and lowest income per head (possibly shared with Moldova). It's ham fisted "Ukrainisation" and "deRussification" policies, and their administration has also terminally alienated a great deal of the Russian population- an important part of the fabric of Ukraine as we knew it. Beyond repair.

Fact remains, the vast majority of the residents of these four provinces want to reunite with Russia- and more controversially, I do not blame them. The American Revolution was illegal too you know.

[misskit]

^ You keep saying that, but you don’t know it is so, other than you think it is so. Unless a referendum is held and monitored by the UN, we don’t know the results.

[bsnub]

You are totally propagandised

This coming from the clown that posts Russian and Chinese propaganda.

anti-intellectual

lack any objectivity or credibility snubs.

Once again, this is coming from a snivelling apologist who posts Russian and Chinese propaganda.

Somewhere in the world, an irony meter is exploding.

Fact is though, the vast majority of the residents of these four provinces want to reunite with Russia- and more controversially, I do not blame them.

You post this outright lie yet claim I lack objectivity and credibility.

[sabang]

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announced Friday local time he would pursue fast-track NATO membership, yet the application failed to draw
enthusiasm from the US. US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan articulated that it was “not the right time” for Ukraine’s admission to the alliance and the application “should be taken up at a different time.” His underlying message was: The US does not need Ukraine as a NATO member, but needs Ukraine, rather than the whole of NATO, to fight against Russia.

To make his message clearer, Sullivan continued that he believed the best way to help Ukraine is to provide practical assistance “on the ground.” On Saturday, Zelensky thanked US President Joe Biden for signing a bill that will provide more than $12 billion in additional funding for Ukraine.

The US won’t cease sending strategic assistance to Ukraine. But whether or not to soon absorb the country into NATO is another story. The value of Ukraine as a pawn has not yet been fully exploited by the US. Before Russia is exhausted by the war, the US will have no appetite to end the crisis, or stop taking advantage of Ukraine.

All Washington cares about is its security architecture built in Europe in the 30 years after the fall of the Soviet Union. Clues can be found that when everyone is led to believe the NATO and Ukraine are strong partners, Ukraine is the one that literally keeps bleeding.

If now is not the “right time” to consider Ukraine’s NATO membership, when will the appropriate time be? NATO has its criteria for those who apply for membership, including the clause that candidates must pursue the peaceful settlement of territorial and ethnic disputes. But Ukraine has been trapped in an ethnic conflict for a long time at home. Worse still, it is now in a war.

It would also be naïve to believe that the right timing will come after the end of the war. Despite the war being highly unlikely to end any time soon, NATO has a clear standard when it comes to expansion – to gain more advantage, rather than taking on a burden. Only when Ukraine develops itself into a stable and prosperous country without conflict both at home and broad will it be the realistic timing for it to become a NATO member.

On the other hand, observers also note that there is another scenario in which NATO could grant Ukraine the NATO membership in a fast-track manner. If a war breaks out between Russia and NATO, the latter may soon take in countries that could fight Russia on the frontline. Again, it is all about whether the US can make use of Ukraine. This is a scenario with very little chance of occurring. But once it does take place, all European countries will tremble under the shadow of a possible nuclear war. In that case, there will be no security for anyone, not for Ukraine, and not for the world.

Instead of pursuing resolutions to end the conflict, Washington has, over and over again, displayed that the US is charging toward the other direction – fanning the flames of war.

“America’s fully prepared with our NATO allies to defend every single inch of NATO territory. Every single inch,” Biden said on Friday. Apparently he did not realize the irony when he stressed “every inch.” It only reminds people of the pledge then US secretary of state James Baker made to then Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev – NATO will move not one inch eastward.

Just as a reminder, Biden’s tough stance has nothing to do with Ukraine. He was talking about NATO’s territory. And Ukraine’s latest application to become a NATO member in a fast-track manner has just been declined. That being said, Biden’s rhetoric is about ensuring that the conflict burns longer on the European continent to make the US the ultimate winner. As for Ukraine, Washington keeps signaling that the US has offered weapons and assistance, and it is Ukraine that must fight to the end.

Whether the conflict will spiral out of control is everyone’s concern. For Ukraine, it may believe its way out is joining NATO. “We are de facto allies… Ukraine is applying to make it de jure,” Zelensky said. But the US does not think so. It just wants Ukraine to be de facto bullet bait, period.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202210/1276526.shtml

[harrybarracuda]

I would like nothing more than for a proper Referendum to be held under independent, UN supervision.

Really?

Personally, I'd like nothing more than for this illegal invasion to be ended and Ukrainian territory to be returned to its rightful owners.

Because that's the fucking law.

[sabang]

I am not as Rad as David Stockman, you know -


The territory of Ukraine is a mosaic of other people’s lands. If we want to stop this insane war and ensure peace in Europe, instead of calling Russia’s sponsored referendum in Eastern Ukraine a sham, we should conduct an honest referendum in all the disputed territories under the auspices of the UN and let the people decide what government they want.
https://original.antiwar.com/David_Stockman/2022/09/27/washingtons-pointless-war-on-behalf-of-a-fake-nation/

[misskit]

^ Do you think the big print makes that crap more valid?

you are as bad as ohoh

[sabang]

Short and pithy kitty. That's all.

[bsnub]

You are totally propagandised, childish, anti-intellectual and lack any objectivity or credibility snubs.

You make a post like this and then immediately post Chinese proganda...

US doesn’t see Ukraine as NATO ally, but as de facto cannon fodder

www.globaltimes.cn

What an utter clown.

[panama hat]

without provocation

Utter nonsense, and most everyone with any familiarity with the situation and recent history already knows it.

Umm, anyone with any familiarity with the situation and recent history already knows it. Without provocation.

You are totally propagandised, childish, anti-intellectual and lack any objectivity or credibility

The irony-metre is powerful in this one

my posts are not aimed at boneheads.

Nope, they are written by one

^ Do you think the big print makes that crap more valid?

you are as bad as ohoh

Please tell us that you're not only noticing that now

[bsnub]

The irony-metre is powerful in this one

It sure is. He is having another one of his meltdowns because Putin is having has ass handed to him on a plate.

Wait until he gets the news from over in Kherson.

[bsnub]

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has officially confirmed the liberation of two settlements in Kherson Oblast - Arkhanhelske and Myroliubivka.

Quote: "I am thankful to the soldiers of the 129th brigade of my native Kryvy Rih, who distinguished themselves with good results and liberated, in particular, Arkhanhelske and Myroliubivka."

Details: Zelenskyy has also expressed gratitude to the soldiers of the 115 brigade of Territorial Defence Forces that defended Zhymotyr Oblast; soldiers of the 117th brigade that are currently defending the north-eastern front in Sumy Oblast; soldiers of the 127th brigade of Territorial Defence Forces for defending the city of Kharkiv and liberating large parts of Kharkiv Oblast; soldiers of the 110th brigade who are bravely repelling occupiers’ attacks on the Zaporizhzhia front.

Yaroslav Yanushevych, Head of Kherson Oblast Military Administration, has also reported the liberation of two settlements in Kherson Oblast - Arkhanhelske and Myroliubivka.

Previously: Russian propagandists started panicking and reporting the success of Ukrainian counteroffensive in Kherson Oblast on social media on 2 October.

Specifically, the liberation of the village of Khreshchenivka in Kherson Oblast was reported on social media on 2 October. The Armed Forces of Ukraine have not officially confirmed this information yet. However, Nataliia Humeniuk, spokeswoman for the press service of the Operational Command Pivden (South), has said that "there is success".

Zelenskyy confirms liberation of Arkhanhelske and Myroliubivka

[OhOh]

Is this an acceptable link for you?

Yes, thank you for your link.

[bsnub]

[Shutree]

Ukraine declares full control of Lyman after Russian forces retreat

There is a real shortage of trustworthy news. I understood that Lyman was surrounded, a few thousand Russian troops encircled, the only possible way ot a single road within range of Ukranian fire.
Then they are all gone?
I haven't seen any pictures of prisoners or bodies pile up, or of any great collection of seized hardware. So what happened to them all?

[misskit]

They retreated.