Ukraine war mega thread

[HuangLao]

The Ukraine my arse. It's a war planned, designed and directed by NATO and NaGastan vassals.

Shhhhh.....don't confuse them with an alternative reality.

[bsnub]

Shhhhh.....don't confuse them with an alternative reality.

Oh, look, it is another dimwitted clown.

So we have OhDoh, Sabwang, and Jeff the bozo, soon skiddy will be awake to push some other BS propaganda.

Lemmings, the lot of em.

[bsnub]

It is absolute bullshit that Russia 'invaded' Crimea.

You are one of the biggest liars that ever existed and a total buffoon.

[bsnub]

Show me the piles of dead bodies, the fleeing refugees, the shattered buildings, the destroyed tanks etc. None.

You fucking scumbag.

[sabang]

That ain't Crimea, numbskull. Bad loser, too. It will be interesting to observe your meltdown in coming weeks/ months.

[bsnub]

That ain't Crimea, numbskull. Bad loser, too.

It is an example of how your master conducts war. He lost the first round of the war. The Ukrainians packed his shit. Now they are doing the same in Kharkiv oblast.

Get rekt you utter [at][at][at][at].

[sabang]

Will be most interesting observing your meltdown from a safe distance. Have some chill pills handy.

[OhOh]

I know a great deal about him, and I would confidently say it is far more than you.

Good to hear you're up and running with the movie portrayal, of a movie script, for Paton movie. Just one of NaGastan's trained killers.

Have you read the book I suggested, if so what was your opinion of its contents?

Patton do as he wished

You are aware that the person portrayed above is an actor, delivering a script, I presume. Similar to a certain, unusually wealthy, Ukrainian actor, currently. But then again SOP for NaGastan politicians to receive a certain "10%", for all it's government representatives "allocations" of NaGastan citizens taxes for doomed to fail leathal experiments, it seems.

I wonder if the unexpected windfalls amount to much of NaGastans diminishing GDP.

"Patton is a 1970 American epic biographical war film about U.S. General George S. Patton during World War II. It stars George C. Scott as Patton and Karl Malden as General Omar Bradley, and was directed by Franklin J. Schaffner from a script by Francis Ford Coppola and Edmund H. North, who based their screenplay on Patton: Ordeal and Triumph by Ladislas Farago and Bradley's memoir, A Soldier's Story".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patton_(film)

As many are aware, movies are somebody's opinon and not always factually true.

One suspects the Eisenhower book would cover more ground on the ins and outs of the political why's, where's and when's than a military film and hence be more relevant to the current world problems, being discussed in this forum topic.

fail to prove

Two sources posted, Wiki and BBC, both are labelled ".... referendum ....". Take it up with them.

clip shows how the US got the then pending Russian invasion correct

Your "US" is a MSMBC news item, post the referendum and post the application and acceptance to return to Russia. The images of the peacekeepers substantiates the after, not prior to, the political decisions being taken.

Any other off topic "clarifications" to share with us and be roundly demolished, publicly, again?

[harrybarracuda]

Crimea held a democratic referendum.Crimea referendum: Voters '''back Russia union''' - BBC News

No it didn't. I realise the idea of threats of violence and vote rigging and ballot stuffing is OK with morons like you that suck up to dictators, but that is not what we call "democratic".

[harrybarracuda]

Except as we all know, Russia did not attack Crimea.

That's exactly what it did, only by stealth.

And having gained control of it, it rigged that silly "referendum" that only snivelling putin sycophants like you and hoohoo take seriously.

[harrybarracuda]

Game over. I wonder how the Referendum results will turn out for DPR/ LPR & Kherson?

The same way, with whatever numbers puffy decides to apply to it.

[sabang]

Ukraine, outside Nato, has no “guarantee” of anything. There are three ways this war could end: Russia driven back to the pre-2014 line; Ukraine defeated and partitioned; or (the most likely at present) a stalemate along a fragile ceasefire line. That would leave Russia occupying some territory claimed by Ukraine while peace negotiations dragged on. International arbiters will be tempted to push some obvious compromise: Russia keeps Crimea, while Donbas is partitioned under UN auspices.

Too neat to work? First, peacemakers have to answer one brutal question: is Putin Hitler? In other words, will any compromise – leaving him with some conquests – simply encourage plans for further conquests? Remember Munich, in 1938. The Sudeten Germans had a pretty good case, in self-determination terms, for leaving Czechoslovakia and joining Germany. But, as events proved, that case should have been outweighed by the recognition that Hitler was an aggressive monster out to swallow all Europe. Much the same could be said about Crimea. Its population mostly feels Russian and regarded the peninsula’s attachment to Ukraine as, at best, a Soviet-era mistake. But to accept Crimea’s clumsy seizure by Russia as legitimate only encourages Putin’s ambition to annex other fragments of the old Soviet dominion.

The trouble is that Truss’s “maximalist” war aims assume independence and territorial integrity are indivisible. They are not. Take Poland. The nation was stripped of many ancient cities and a third of its territory in 1945. But, once free of Soviet imperial overlordship, its independence is intact. The Trianon treaty in 1920 reduced Hungary to less than a third of its prewar size, but left a ferociously independent “core” Hungary. Georgia (like Ukraine, an informal Nato candidate) still insists Abkhazia is integral to its sovereignty, although that tiny Black Sea nation rejected absorption into Georgia in 1993. But no one would dare say that in “losing” Abkhazia Georgia lost its independence.

At tomorrow’s Victory Day parade in Moscow, Putin may claim “mission almost accomplished”. That depends on how narrowly he can define “mission”. But peace talks, if and when they begin, will inevitably centre on where new frontiers will run, which means, unfairly, finding out how much lost territory Ukraine will give up.

Peace talks, if and when they begin, will inevitably centre on where new frontiers will run

Here danger lurks. Ukrainian politics since independence in 1991 have been unforgiving, to put it mildly. Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s brave and selfless war leadership has been a break with the corrupt oligarchs and demagogues who have mostly hogged the Kyiv stage. But if Zelenskiy takes responsibility for ending the war on a bargain that included, say, accepting that Crimea stays with Russia, some ambitious figures would be tempted to stab him in the back as a betrayer of Ukrainian independence. They could fill the streets with hyper-nationalist mobs and Zelenskiy’s creation – a new degree of national unity – would dissolve in chaos.

Hope lies with the younger generations now fighting for their country. Their world view is west of centre: a European Ukraine that is liberal- or social-democratic, a nation where the rule of law and transparency are more than slogans. Some of them are from the west of the country, their identities secure in their Ukrainian language and culture. But the men and women who really matter are the millions who speak Russian, who regard themselves as ethnically Russian but who now, through contempt for Putin’s regime and blazing outrage at this invasion of what is their homeland, have come to feel fully Ukrainian. Their country is in ruins, but it is their country now.

Full Article- Surrendering land is not the same as defeat – if a stronger Ukraine emerges from the ruins (msn.com)


How about a Ukraine where the Ukrainian people want to be Ukrainian? How long is it worth being at war with Russia over parts occupied by Russia, that don't want to be part of Ukraine?

[misskit]

^ Did you miss this line?

But the men and women who really matter are the millions who speak Russian, who regard themselves as ethnically Russian but who now, through contempt for Putin’s regime and blazing outrage at this invasion of what is their homeland, have come to feel fully Ukrainian.

[misskit]

Old cartoon.

"Ukraine's choice": On the Ukrainian president's decision to reject a European Union deal (the EU flag is in blue with stars) for a bail-out from Russia:

[misskit]

^ From this article.

Everything you need to know about the 2014 Ukraine crisis - Vox

[sabang]

I sure didn't. Being ethnically Russian, or just Russian speaking (many non-Russian Ukrainians speak Russian as their lingua franca) does not necessarily mean that you want to be nationally Russian. But in certain parts of Ukraine, basically the far east and south, they do. Are you really better off, going forward, with a fractured, warring 'country' like that- or having a smaller (but still sizable) nation with national solidarity, a shared sense of direction (and I would think a lot of western aid coming your way). Nothing personal, but is bigger necessarily better?

I guess that was the point of The Guardian article.

[bsnub]

wo sources posted, Wiki and BBC, both are labelled ".... referendum ....". Take it up with them.

You just persist in being a clueless propagandist. No one outside of the other Three Stooges reads or buys any of the bullshit you post.

That's exactly what it did, only by stealth.

And having gained control of it, it rigged that silly "referendum" that only snivelling putin sycophants like you and hoohoo take seriously.

This is the reality, and the Russians are going to try and pull the same shit in Kherson.

[David48atTD]

^^ From MK's link above ...

Most of the world sees Crimea's secession vote as illegitimate for a few reasons:

1. it was held under hostile Russian military occupation with no international monitoring and many reports of intimidation,
2. it was pushed through with only a couple of weeks' warning,
3. and it was illegal under Ukrainian law.

[sabang]

The Maidan Revolution was illegal under Ukrainian law too, and subsequently they even changed the Constitution. Thus ended the former Ukrainian federation.

[David48atTD]

The Maidan Revolution was

.was not as a result of an invasion by a foreign country.

After the Maidan Revolution was concluded, a National Election was held and Russia and Communism was rejected by the majority of Ukrainian Citizens.

[Norton]

The Maidan Revolution was illegal under Ukrainian law too

Suppose it was but was a very strong message by Ukrainians that in no circumstance did they want any deals with Russia so government collapsed, a new anti Russian gov took over and Putin decided no matter what a nation decided to do if was not pro Russian he would sort it militarily. So he annexed Crimea. This is how Putin operates and will, if he is not stopped, continue beyond his Ukraine invasion to other nations he deems not pro Russian enough.

[sabang]

Still illegal, Unconstitutional, and left some people Ukrainian pissed off and seceding. The rest is history. Wouldn't it have been better to expel the government legally, ie via election- as would certainly have happened if it were so unpopular?

[harrybarracuda]

Still illegal, Unconstitutional, and left some people Ukrainian pissed off and seceding. The rest is history. Wouldn't it have been better to expel the government legally, ie via election- as would certainly have happened if it were so unpopular?

That probably would have worked if the closet Puffy stooge in charge wasn't in a hurry to kiss Putin's arse (you know, like you do).

[harrybarracuda]

For the love of God, has Ukraine not suffered enough?

Ukraine War: U2 frontman Bono performs in Kyiv metro station | News UK Video News | Sky News

[bsnub]