Ukraine war mega thread

[Troy]

I will go with Occam's razor here. But the fact that the ships anti-missile defenses were so lacking is, well, staggering.

According to wiki, Moskva had recently undergone upgrades and repairs. I wonder if the upgrades had been fully tested during trials since there is a suggestion of lacking funds.

There are also reports of Russian naval vessels moving further away from the Ukraine coastline suggesting the cruiser did take a missile hit.

Maybe skiddy can find the historic positions of Russian ships in the Black Sea.

Russian cruiser Moskva - Wikipedia

[HermantheGerman]

Maybe skiddy can find the historic positions of Russian ships in the Black Sea.

[bsnub]

There are also reports of Russian naval vessels moving further away from the Ukraine coastline suggesting the cruiser did take a missile hit.

Indeed, they did, which confirms that this was definitely a missile strike by the Ukrainians.

Russia Moves Ships to Safer Location After Ukraine Missile Attack

[Buckaroo Banzai]

Think you can handle it?
in short "He's an old idiot"

If Noam Chomsky is an old idiot what does that make you?
by the way he backed up his idiotic old age induced opinion by indisputable facts , or do you care to dispute any?

[misskit]

Russia's 'broken arrow': Fears that nuclear missiles sank with Putin's flagship Moskva amid claims that HUNDREDS of the 510 crew have drowned after being 'hit by Ukrainian missile'

Russia's Black Sea flagship which sank yesterday after an explosion on board may have been carrying nuclear warheads, analysts and experts have warned today, as they called for an emergency investigation into the threat.


The Moskva, a Soviet-era guided missile cruiser, sank near the port of Sevastopol on Thursday after Ukraine said it hit the ship with two cruise missiles, causing it to roll over. Russia has admitted the vessel sank after a fire and explosion on board, but has not said what caused the blaze.


There are now fears that the Moskva could have taken two nuclear warheads into the depths in what could turn into a 'broken arrow' incident - American military slang for an accident involving nuclear weapons.

Mykhailo Samus, director of a Lviv-based military think-tank; Andriy Klymenko, editor of Black Sea News; and Ukrainian newspaper Defence Express all warned today that the Moskva was designed to carry warheads which could be fitting into the nose of its supersonic P-1000 missiles - designed to take out American aircraft carriers.



'On board the Moskva could be nuclear warheads - two units,' Samus said, while Klymenko called on other Black Sea nations - Turkey, Romania, Georgia, and Bulgaria - to insist on an explanation. Where are these warheads? Where were they when the ammunition exploded,' he asked.


Meanwhile Defence Express said that it had 'interviewed experts, including designers and naval officers, who unanimously and independently gave the following answer - there is a real possibility that the affected flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet could have had nuclear munitions on board.


The paper added: 'Are nuclear munitions always on board, or are they loaded only by special order?'


Speculation about a nuclear disaster swirled as questions also remained over the Moskva's 510-strong crew, who have been largely unaccounted for since the ship was struck amid the expectation that hundreds will have died in the on-board explosion.


So-far, only around 50 of the crew are accounted for - having been picked up by a Turkish vessel - with another 14 reportedly flown to the port of Sevastopol, leaving around 450 whose fates are unknown. Russia claims to have evacuated the entire crew, but video taken in Sevastopol overnight shows dozens of cars purportedly belonging to the sailors still parked in the port - suggesting their owners had not returned to collect them.

Explosions on comparably-sized ships often produce hundreds of deaths. When the General Belgrano - an Argentinian warship - was struck by two British torpedoes during the Falklands War, the resulting blast killed a total of 334 people. The Belgrano was smaller than the Moskva, and its ammunition did not explode.


The Moskva got into trouble overnight Wednesday as it sailed around 60 miles off the coast of Odesa, Ukraine's largest port and main naval base. The Ukrainian military said it was struck with two Neptune cruise missiles fired by a coastal battery, which struck the port side of the vessel.


Russian military sources said the ship had rolled on to its side and caught fire after the blast, while US intelligence sources said the vessel suffered a 'large' explosion that left it heavily damaged before it sank.


Moscow has said only that the vessel suffered a fire and blast before its navy attempted to tow the ship back to Sevastopol, but during the operation it sank in rough seas. The exact location of the wreck is unknown.


The loss of the Moskva - the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet that was told to 'go f*** yourself' by Ukrainian troops as it demanded their surrender on Snake Island - is a huge propaganda win for Kyiv as well as another embarrassing loss for Putin's beleaguered army.


As revenge for the sinking, the Russian military launched a series of cruise missile strikes on Ukraine overnight Thursday - including several rockets which it said struck and destroyed a factory near Kyiv that made the weapons used against Moskva.


Russia's defence ministry warned early Friday that it will step up attacks on Kyiv in the coming days, in response to Ukrainian strikes on Russian territory.


A village in Russia's border region with Belarus, which houses a military base, was struck Thursday - coming after explosions at an ammo dump and oil facility in Belgorod, an along a nearby train line.


Images from Belgorod in the early hours of Friday showed anti-aircraft missiles in the sky, suggesting fresh strikes were underway.


Meanwhile, the military claimed to have shot down a Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter involved in the attack on the Bryansk region near Chernihiv.

Ukraine has not acknowledged carrying out any such strikes, but has also not denied being behind them.


Elsewhere, President Zelensky, praised the herosim of Ukrainians in holding out against Russia's invasion for 50 days - in spite of warnings they would last just five.


Zelensky said he remembered the first day of the invasion when many world leaders, unsure whether Ukraine could survive, advised him to leave the country.


He added: 'But they didn't know how brave Ukrainians are, how much we value freedom and the possibility to live the way we want.'


Separately, Russia told the US to stop sending weapons to Ukraine, warning of 'unpredictable consequences' if it continues to do do.


The warning was delivered in the form of an official diplomatic note, which was seen by the Washington Post.


It said that American and NATO shipments of the 'most sensitive' weapons were 'adding fuel' to the conflict, which is now nearing its second month.


The two-page note was delivered after Biden had agreed to a new $800million delivery of military aid to Ukraine, including heavy artillery and shells, helicopters and armoured personnel carriers.


'What the Russians are telling us privately is precisely what we’ve been telling the world publicly — that the massive amount of assistance that we’ve been providing our Ukrainian partners is proving extraordinarily effective,' a senior US official said about the note.


Aside from providing Ukraine with a propaganda victory, Moskva's sinking also has practical implications for Russia. As flagship, the vessel was likely tasked with coordinating the movements of other ships in the Black Sea which may cause further confusion among Russia's already-strained command structure.


Its role was also to provide cover for Russia's other ships using its anti-air missiles while they launched cruise missiles attacks against cities and military sites. Its loss will make them more-vulnerable to Ukrainian strikes, including by fast jets or drones.


Ukraine war mega thread

[Backspin]

Someone should start a Taiwan war mega thread. Looks like we will need it.

[pickel]

What in my posts makes' it seem so? and in disagreement with anything Chomsky said in the interview
A quote would be appreciated.

Instead of wasting my time digging through quotes of yours, you could just settle it by answering a question.

Do you think the Russian invasion of Ukraine was illegal?

Noam does.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

Instead of wasting my time digging through quotes of yours, you could just settle it by answering a question.

Do you think the Russian invasion of Ukraine was illegal?

Noam does.

I thought I made that clear when I asked you " What in my posts makes you think that I don't believe the invasion of Ukraine is illegal."
And since you are so concerned with legalities , In our legal system you are the one who has to prove your ocusation, not me my innocence.
Am I not correct?
Since you are the one who said that my posts imply that I don't believe the Ukraine invasion was illegals in contrast to Chomsky that does. You are required to produce those posts the made you think so, Otherwise you are either mistaken or insincere.
Which one is it?
Remember laziness is no defence

[pickel]

^
I'll take that as a "no" then.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

^
I'll take that as a "no" then.

I think you should take it as having been wrong.

[pickel]

I think you should take it as having been wrong.

Until you answer the question, I guess we'll never know.

[Backspin]

Instead of wasting my time digging through quotes of yours, you could just settle it by answering a question.

Do you think the Russian invasion of Ukraine was illegal?

Noam does.

Noam also believes that the coup in Ukraine and the US's specific role in it was illegal. Because of course , it was.

Anyway looks like my Norway ship isn't here anymore.

[Backspin]

⚡The official representative of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense said that for the first time since the beginning of the operation, Russia used Tu-22M3 long-range bombers. The bombing hit the forces who had settled on the Mariupol "Azovstal".

[pickel]

Noam also believes that the coup in Ukraine and the US's specific role in it was illegal. Because of course , it was.

They've had a free and fair democratic election since then, which nullifies his opinion.

[pickel]

The bombing hit the forces who had settled on the Mariupol "Azovstal".

I thought you said all the Ukrainian Forces in Mariupol had already surrendered.

[HermantheGerman]

If Noam Chomsky is an old idiot what does that make you?
by the way he backed up his idiotic old age induced opinion by indisputable facts , or do you care to dispute any?

I already did. Now please stop with this Noam bullshit or go start a new thread for old farts who's breath smell like a rotten carcass.

[bsnub]

I thought you said all the Ukrainian Forces in Mariupol had already surrendered.

He is an epic liar and gets caught constantly. He is made loads of false comments in this thread. A total waste of space.

[Joe 90]

Aside from providing Ukraine with a propaganda victory, Moskva's sinking also has practical implications for Russia. As flagship, the vessel was likely tasked with coordinating the movements of other ships in the Black Sea which may cause further confusion among Russia's already-strained command structure.

The Ukrainian residents of Odessa shall sleep a little better tonight.

[Backspin]

I thought you said all the Ukrainian Forces in Mariupol had already surrendered.

Lots have. But there is still a large group of Azov militants in the Azovstal steel factory. Which has huge underground facilities that they are in

[sabang]

Bunker busters?

[Buckaroo Banzai]

Until you answer the question, I guess we'll never know.

Again for the third and final time.
you said "judging from your posts I don't think you agree with that. "
This is an exact cut and paste quote, yet you fail to produce a single post that support your proposition .
The onus falls upon you to support your statements. This is a discussion not an inquisition where I have to answer questions.
but if you think that it is , I suggest you do it properly . First you need to get a bright light.

[Backspin]

[pickel]

Again for the third and final time.
you said "judging from your posts I don't think you agree with that. "
This is an exact cut and paste quote, yet you fail to produce a single post that support your proposition .
The onus falls upon you to support your statements.

I gave you my opinion on your posting history. You even quoted it. You could prove me wrong by answering the question, but your obfuscation is answer enough.

You're boring me now, so feel free to keep on chasing your own tail. I'm done with the subject.

[mackayae]

Russian military.....an oxymoron.

[sabang]

That's what Hitler said.