Ukraine war mega thread

[Switch]

Britain trying to drag the US into WW3

These two fools remind me of Chamberlain appeasing Hitler before WWII started.
One of them claims to have signed a non disclosure agreement which he subsequently ignored. He was reporting on a think tank discussion, not a government policy.

The idiot managed to find uk all by himself? That is a dubious claim in itself.

They make much of the fact that Elwood is an MP, but they happily announce that they don’t understand what a parliamentary select committee does, even though Elwood is Chairman of the Defence select committee?

Imported and rather self important bozos with a YouTube channel. Nothing more.

[Switch]

Given the current trajectory of U.S. foreign policy, two options are available for Russia in its Ukraine invasion end-game:

In this world, there are two options with regard to Ukraine. As we know, one option is a negotiated settlement, which will offer Putin an escape, an ugly settlement. Is it within reach? We don’t know; you can only find out by trying and we’re refusing to try. But that’s one option. The other option is to make it explicit and clear to Putin and the small circle of men around him that you have no escape, you’re going to go to a war crimes trial no matter what you do. Boris Johnson just reiterated this: sanctions will go on no matter what you do. What does that mean? It means go ahead and obliterate Ukraine and go on to lay the basis for a terminal war.

Those are the two options: and we’re picking the second and praising ourselves for heroism and doing it: fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian.

The two options: (1) diplomatic engagement, or what Chomsky calls “a negotiated settlement,” “an ugly settlement,” and (2) a final conflict, in which Russia has “no escape” and Putin’s “going to go to a war crimes trial” if Russia loses, which establishes the conditions for a zero-sum outcome: Russia deploys nuclear weapons against the U.S., and the U.S. reciprocates.

U.S. President Biden’s recent actions (e.g., brazenly arming Ukraine’s forces) and Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s statements (e.g., condemning Putin as a war criminal) indicate a preference for option 2. But option 1, Chomsky insists, is far better for humanity’s survival as a species: “[D]iplomatic settlement . . . will give Putin and his narrow circle an escape hatch.”

Not to mention, save us all from nuclear annihilation.

FULL- Chomsky on Ukraine: America is Manufacturing Monsters! | by Shane J. Ralston | Statecraft and Global Affairs | Apr, 2022 | Medium

A very good article, well worth reading in full (100+ IQ assumed).


^ I support Peace, and a negotiated outcome kitty. This has been the case from the beginning, and I make no bones about the fact that I believe this war could and should have been avoided.

The solution is simple. Putin admits that his invasion was illegal, and Russian troops leave Ukraine.

That is the solution. Unless Putin engages reverse gear, the war will go on.


The only other option is if Putin wants to blame NATO, he will break some rules to allow them to take up arms. He won’t do that because he knows that if his military can’t roll over Ukraine in a few days, NATO would destroy him.

[harrybarracuda]

Just keep the sanctions on, tighten them if needed, arm Ukraine and sit and wait.

Someone will take Putin out eventually as Ukraine continues to piss off the rank and file Russian military.

[Takeovers]

The solution is simple. Putin admits that his invasion was illegal, and Russian troops leave Ukraine.

Don't forget returning abdicted children. No lifting of sanctions without that.

[Hugh Cow]

No lifting of sanctions period until Russia has paid for all the damage and compensated Ukrainian people. They have decided to be a pariah state so they should be isolated from the western financial system and see how well that works for them. What Russia has suffered so far is nothing to the damage that will be done long term The bulk of suffering is yet to come but it will come and will put Russia back years. It is time that democracies set an example that Russian interference in Ukraine will not be tolerated and China needs to be reminded that there is cost if you are going to flout international rules.
All of the rhetoric about NATO yet NATO has not encroached on one inch of Russian territory or killed one Russian civilian on Russian soil, whilst Russian troops have killed thousands, not only Ukraine but Georgia and Moldova and that is only recent history.
To forcibly move a population starve the rest and fill the empty towns and villages with your own people and then let them vote themselves back into the country they migrated from seems to be a valid argument for these myopic pro Russian propagandists. These recent historical facts are forgotten along with this Russian propaganda of NATO "provoking" Russia espoused by some Russian trolls on this forum.

[David48atTD]

No lifting of sanctions period until Russia has paid for all the damage and compensated Ukrainian people.

But how will they pay for all the war reparations if Russia can't earn an income?

Better if that 'income' is garnished and held in trust for Ukraine.

Say a 60% / 40% split.

What has taken months to destroy will take years to rebuild.

IMHO

[bsnub]

But how will they pay for all the war reparations if Russia can't earn an income?

Billions of funds have already been frozen by the west. Those should be given to Ukraine to rebuild

[OhOh]

Russian interference in Ukraine will not be tolerated .

Tolerated by whom? NATO, 5 Eyes and Japan?


Who are they, 20% of the worlds citizens, not I suspect a majority

China needs to be reminded that there is cost if you are going to flout international rules.

Who will "remind" China? NATO, 5 Eyes and Japan?

there is cost if you are going to flout international rules.

Regarding Ukraine, which "international rules", has Russia "flouted"?

[OhOh]

given to Ukraine to rebuild

More likely disappear elsewhere, I suspect. NaGastan has previous in such events.

[OhOh]

Better if that 'income' is garnished

To early to tell if they are able too, and who will determine the appropriate benefactors is they try?

The UNGA or some entity with previous regarding stealing many counties assets for their own benefit.

[harrybarracuda]

Sounds like hoohoo isn't happy about all the suggestions.

Which is nice.

[David48atTD]

... who will determine the appropriate benefactors

Difficult that one.

Transparency is the key.

[David48atTD]

^ that is, of course, assuming that 'ole Puffy doesn't push that big red button

[bsnub]

Who are they, 20% of the worlds citizens

The west controls almost all the worlds' wealth, you utter imbecile.

Who will "remind" China? NATO, 5 Eyes and Japan?

Do you really think that China could last one minute against the military capabilities of the West? They would be annihilated.

More likely disappear elsewhere, I suspect.

It ain't going back to Russia bitch and there is nothing your little fucking puppet can do to get it back as he is busy getting his beak smacked in Ukraine.

What happened to the lightning offensive to take Kyiv?

[OhOh]

^ that is, of course, assuming that 'ole Puffy doesn't push that big red button

You may wish to determine who of the nuclear armed countries leaders have the "mental capacity" to make that decision and has a "No first use" statement which allegedly binds them.

The current stances:

China - "China has repeatedly reaffirmed its no-first-use policy in recent years, doing so in 2005, 2008, 2009 and again in 2011."

India - "Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, speaking on the anniversary of the death of former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee on August 16, 2019, said that India's no-first-use policy might change depending upon the "circumstances".

Pakistan - "Pakistan refuses to adopt a no first use doctrine and indicates that it would launch nuclear weapons even if the other side did not use such weapons first."

Russia - "The 2020 Presidential Executive Order on Nuclear Deterrence in Article 4 uses the wording: "deterrence of a potential adversary from aggression against the Russian Federation and/or its allies. In the event of a military conflict, this Policy provides for the prevention of an escalation of military actions and their termination on conditions that are acceptable for the Russian Federation and/or its allies"

UK - "April 2017 Defence Secretary Michael Fallon confirmed that the UK would use nuclear weapons in a "pre-emptive initial strike" in "the most extreme circumstances".^[39] Fallon stated in a parliamentary answer that the UK has neither a 'first use' or 'no first use' in its nuclear weapon policy so that its adversaries would not know when the UK would launch nuclear strikes."

NaGastan - "During the 2020 United States presidential election the eventual victor Joe Biden expressed support for a "sole purpose" declaration confirming that the only use of U.S. nuclear weapons would be as a deterrent, although this is distinct from a "no first use" declaration identifying that the United States would not unilaterally use them."

Israel - "If Israel's very existence is threatened, some speculate that Israel would use a "Samson Option", a "last resort" deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons, should the State of Israel be substantially damaged and/or near destruction."

North Korea - "North Korea's stated policy position is that nuclear weapons "will never be abused or used as a means for preemptive strike", but if there is an "attempt to have recourse to military force against us" North Korea may use their "most powerful offensive strength in advance to punish them"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use

The west controls almost all the worlds' wealth.

Along with almost all the worlds' debt.

Are you suggesting only the "wealthy/debt free countries" opinions should be considered in UNGA voting?

Do you really think that China could last one minute against the military capabilities of the West?

Are the 16% of the worlds' population, willing to take on the other 84% of the worlds' population?

(The 16% - "west" countries for this comparison consist of NATO, 5 Eyes, Japan, South Korea and Philippines. There may be other countries who have a mutual defence agreement in this grouping.)

can do to get it back

What happened to the lightning offensive to take Kyiv

When and where did the Russian government state that they had any intention "to take Kyiv"?

[Backspin]

[Backspin]

No lifting of sanctions period until Russia has paid for all the damage and compensated Ukrainian people. They have decided to be a pariah state so they should be isolated from the western financial system and see how well that works for them. What Russia has suffered so far is nothing to the damage that will be done long term The bulk of suffering is yet to come but it will come and will put Russia back years. It is time that democracies set an example that Russian interference in Ukraine will not be tolerated and China needs to be reminded that there is cost if you are going to flout international rules.
All of the rhetoric about NATO yet NATO has not encroached on one inch of Russian territory or killed one Russian civilian on Russian soil, whilst Russian troops have killed thousands, not only Ukraine but Georgia and Moldova and that is only recent history.
To forcibly move a population starve the rest and fill the empty towns and villages with your own people and then let them vote themselves back into the country they migrated from seems to be a valid argument for these myopic pro Russian propagandists. These recent historical facts are forgotten along with this Russian propaganda of NATO "provoking" Russia espoused by some Russian trolls on this forum.

Russia doesn't need the western financial system. And doesn't give a fuck if sanctions are never lifted. The cold war era Jackson Vanick sanctions weren't removed till Obama's term. And then before Crimea ever happened, the US put on the Magnitsky sanctions in 2012. The US never wanted peace with Russia.

The Ruble has recovered all of its losses, the MOEX stock market is back open and stable and Europe is paying for gas with Rubles or through Gazprom Bank.

To forcibly move a population starve the rest and fill the empty towns and villages with your own people and then let them vote themselves back into the country

Umm none of this is happening. The eastern half of Ukraine and much of the center is a Russophone population. And was Russian territory before the US was ever a state.

[misskit]

Photo of frail Vladimir Putin sparks health rumours

A frail-looking Vladimir Putin stoked rumours of failing health last night as he was seen biting his lips, fidgeting distractedly and appearing unsteady at a church service.


The tyrant - dogged by claims he has Parkinson’s or terminal cancer - gurned while clutching a candle near the altar at a midnight mass for Orthodox Easter, The Sun reports.

VIDEO HERE Russia-Ukraine: Frail Vladimir Putin photo sparks health, Parkinsons rumours | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site



I’ve never noticed Putin having an uneven mouth before. Looks as though he’s had a stroke. Or is that part of Parkinson’s?

[Backspin]

Clear footage of Kalibr strikes on weapons caches

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZxvzkUaLxfg?feature=share why these short videos dont imbed ill never know

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZxvzkUaLxfg

[Troy]

You may wish to determine who of the nuclear armed countries leaders have the "mental capacity" to make that decision and has a "No first use" statement which allegedly binds them.

The current stances:

...

I find it interesting that the wiki page does not include France, one of the "nuclear 5" and one with the third largest stockpile of nuclear weapons.

So to complete the list:

Nuclear Doctrine

French nuclear policy is one of calculated ambiguity regarding first-use of nuclear weapons. France adheres to its principle of “strict sufficiency” whereby it keeps its nuclear arsenal at the lowest possible level in accordance with the strategic context. In its 2013 White Paper on Defence and National Security, France claims that its deterrence strategy is strictly defensive and that “The use of nuclear weapons would only be conceivable in extreme circumstances of legitimate self-defense” and that nuclear deterrence “protects France from any State-led aggression against its vital interests, of whatever origin and in whatever form” including terrorism. French Presidents Hollande and Macron both reiterated this nuclear doctrine. In May 2015, France reaffirmed the 1995 negative security assurance to the UN (Resolution 984) not to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear-weapon states-parties to the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) unless it is facing an invasion or sustained attack against its territories, armed forces, or states with which it has security agreement and the attack is in alliance with a nuclear-weapon state.


Paris declared that it took steps in 1992 and 1996 to extend the time it takes to launch nuclear weapons. It is believed that France needs several days in order to launch nuclear weapons.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/franceprofile

[pickel]

Clear footage of Kalibr strikes on weapons caches

Clear footage of a Kalibr strike on a civilian apartment block in Odessa, killing 8 including a 3 month old baby.

[pickel]

There sure is a lot of mysterious fires and explosions at strategic locations inside Russia lately.

Seven die in fire at Russia defence institute – reports | Russia | The Guardian

Mysterious Fires Break Out at Russia Chemical Plant and Defense Facility

Large fires break out at Russian oil depots | Russia | The Guardian

[Backspin]

Canadian media reports that the "former" army commander, Lieutenant General Trevor Kadier, is in Ukraine, and he has been absent since February. It is assumed that he may be surrounded in Mariupol https://twitter.com/ivan_8848/status/1518256351142723584/photo/1

[Backspin]

There sure is a lot of mysterious fires and explosions at strategic locations inside Russia lately.

Seven die in fire at Russia defence institute – reports | Russia | The Guardian

Mysterious Fires Break Out at Russia Chemical Plant and Defense Facility

Large fires break out at Russian oil depots | Russia | The Guardian

Yeah and Russia has given plenty of warnings in the last 2 days. Government buildings including the presidential quarters will most likely be targeted with Kalibr missiles at any moment
now.

[misskit]

^^^ Add to that the “suicides” of wealthy Russians. What’s going on here?



Whodunnit: 2 Russian oligarchs, their families found dead within 24 hours

Two Russian oligarchs were found dead alongside their families in the span of 24 hours, the latest in a string of deaths among Russia’s super rich since the beginning of Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.


The bullet-riddled bodies of banking magnate Vladislav Avayev and his wife and daughter were discovered in the Russian capital of Moscow. Less than a day later, gas executive Sergei Protosenya was found hanged in Spain with his wife and daughter stabbed to death.



LOCKED ROOM MYSTERY


Vladislav Avayev, the former Vice President of Gazprombank, his wife Yelena, and their 13-year-old daughter Maria were found shot to death in their multi-million dollar apartment in Moscow on Monday. Their bodies were discovered by Avayev’s eldest daughter, Annastasia, who said she grew concerned after she had been unable to contact them for the last couple of days.

Police have reportedly said their main theory is that Avayev shot his wife and daughter, and then himself. The murder-suicide theory is based on the fact that the oligarch’s apartment, located on the 14th floor, was locked from the inside.

Notably, Avayev also had a role in Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Kremlin administration, where he was head of a key department.


WAS THERE FOUL PLAY?


The body of Sergey Protosenya, former top manager of major Russian gas company Novatek, was found together with those of his wife and daughter on Tuesday in a rented villa in Spain, where the family was spending the Easter holidays.


The 55-year-old Russian oligarch was found hanged in the garden of the villa in Lloret de Mar by Spanish police, while his wife and daughter were hacked to death in their beds. According to local Spanish media reports, an axe and a knife were found next to Protosenya’s corpse.


Police were alerted to the deaths when Protosenya’s son, who was in France, raised the alarm after nobody picked up the phone. When cops went to do a check, they found the oligarch’s body outside the villa.

Police are investigating two possible scenarios: either Protosenya killed his wife and daughter and then hanged himself, or that the entire family was murdered and the crime scene was later stage to appear like a murder-suicide.


Surprisingly, no bloodstains were seen on the body of Protosenya. At the same time, investigators found the blood-stained socks apparently used as makeshift gloves to avoid fingerprints on the murder weapons -- an axe and a knife.


The gruesome deaths have set off a police investigation, with investigators looking into all angles, including suicide or foul play. They are also probing whether the two millionaires were in contact with one another before their untimely demise.



SERIES OF MYSTERIOUS DEATHS


Curiously, the gory deaths of Protosenya and Avayev are not the first. Quite a few Russian oligarchs have been found dead under mysterious circumstances in the last few months.


On February 25, a day after Russia launched its “special military operation in Ukraine”, top Gazprom executive Alexander Tyulyakov was found hanged to death in a cottage near St Petersburg. Police recovered a note next to his body, which led them to believe that the oligarch had died by suicide.
Ukrainian-born Russian tycoon Mikhail Watford, who made his wealth in oil and gas, was found dead in his home in Surrey in Britain on February 28. His body was found in a noose in the garage of his home by his gardener.


On March 24, Russian media reported the deaths of billionaire Vasily Melnikov and his wife and two sons in their luxury apartment in Nizhny Novgorod. They had all died from stab wounds and the knives used for the murders were found at the crime scene.

Whodunnit: 2 Russian oligarchs, their families found dead within 24 hours - World News