Ukraine war mega thread

[Backspin]

To Punish Russia The 'Liberal Order' Attempts To Suicide Itself

Two days ago we looked at why Russia is doing what it does:

Russia understood Zelensky's remark in Munich as a threat by Ukraine to acquire nuclear weapons. It already has the expertise, materials and means to do that.

A fascist controlled government with nukes on Russia's border? This is not about Putin at all. No Russian government of any kind could ever condone that.

I believe that this credible threat, together with the artillery preparations for a new war on Donbas, was what convinced Russia's government to intervene by force.

The 'west' had failed to understand Russia's need to act. It has failed to make the necessary commitments, and accept Russia's reasonable demands, to avoid the struggle. In consequence it will now fall apart. The knee-jerk reaction to Russia's 'special military operation' in Ukraine will, as Alastair Crooke writes, lead to the end of the 'liberal order':

[Backspin]

People on both sides are getting killed in a unnecessary war and here are fools are bragging about getting rid of H&M. For god’s sake. Someone needs to wake up.

It's anything but an unnecessary war in the eyes of Russians.

There would have been a war between a NATO backed Ukraine to take back Crimea in the future anyway. If the status quo held , the US and NATO would have built up their naval and air force capabilities for the next 10 years. And then a Ukrainian govt would decide to have a war to take back Crimea. And the whole Western public would support it.

That is a war Russia would lose. This isn't.

[misskit]

^^ Where is your linky-poo? You didn’t write that.

[helge]

Where is your linky-poo? You didn’t write that.

From "Moon of Alabama"

A whiskey forum !

Respect!

[misskit]

Russian losses since invasion start exceed 11,000 military, 290 tanks, 46 planes, 68 helicopters – AFU General Staff

Russian military losses since the beginning of the invasion exceed 11,000 servicemen, 290 tanks, 999 armored combat vehicles and 117 artillery systems, the press service of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has said.


"The total combat losses of the enemy from February 24 to March 7 amounted to approximately 11,000 soldiers killed in action, 290 tanks, 999 armored combat vehicles, 117 artillery systems, 50 multiple rocket launchers, 23 air defense systems, 46 aircraft, 68 helicopters, 454 vehicles, three ships/boats, 60 tanks and seven UAVs of operational and tactical level," the report said.

Russian losses since invasion start exceed 11,000 military, 290 tanks, 46 planes, 68 helicopters – AFU General Staff

[nidhogg]

A very thoughtful article imo. Therer is no justification for Russia's full on assault of its neighbour and now isn't probably the time to question Ukraine's (Zzelensky) approach to Russia immediately prior to the conflict. I couldn't help but be struck by Zelensky's intransigency on the question of Ukraine's membership in the EU and NATO. This membership was obviously going to be a non-starter for Russia. It was also going to be a non starter for NATO members. I wish the Americans would have made it more clear to Ukraine that they should 'shut the fuck up' when it came to NATO membership in particular. Zelensky was playing with fire and now the whole of Ukraine is being unfortunately burned. This is just my opinion and I know not a very popular one. Fire away if you must.

The only point is what you believe in. Do people have the right to self determination, or do you believe they must kowtow to the whims of small dicked dictators?

Personally, i have never seen any country clamouring to join the Russian federation.

[David48atTD]

Pro Russia rally Sydney Australia at Russian embassy
Telegram: Contact @istorijaoruzija

Sooooo small a gathering, about 50 dicks rocked up.

Not even being reported by the local media.

TASS reported it, but were too embarrassed to report the numbers attending.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

the press service of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has said.

To which the the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia replied " Liar liar pants on fire"

"Hiram Johnson (1866-1945) - a Progressive Republican senator in California. His actual quote, 'The first casualty, when war comes, is truth', "

[kingwilly]

To Punish Russia The 'Liberal Order' Attempts To Suicide Itself

Two days ago we looked at why Russia is doing what it does:

Russia understood Zelensky's remark in Munich as a threat by Ukraine to acquire nuclear weapons. It already has the expertise, materials and means to do that.

A fascist controlled government with nukes on Russia's border? This is not about Putin at all. No Russian government of any kind could ever condone that.

I believe that this credible threat, together with the artillery preparations for a new war on Donbas, was what convinced Russia's government to intervene by force.

The 'west' had failed to understand Russia's need to act. It has failed to make the necessary commitments, and accept Russia's reasonable demands, to avoid the struggle. In consequence it will now fall apart. The knee-jerk reaction to Russia's 'special military operation' in Ukraine will, as Alastair Crooke writes, lead to the end of the 'liberal order':

more plagiarism, Backspit.

[sabang]

We all gotta love Zelensky now, innit? Telegenetic TikTok savvy entertainer, "Hero of the Resistance!"- best known for playing a piano with his dick when he was a comedian.

Very unpopular opinion to state that he is an incompetent, corrupt Ukrainian President, far too much in troth to the Far Right/ neo-Nazi elements for any decent persons comfort, and bears full responsibility- along with 'US lead Nato' and (of course) Mr Putin for the shit Ukraine is in now.

Here is another one of your (once was) heroes-




Beware of false prophets.

[HermantheGerman]

^
Beware of dumb posters

[sabang]

Pandora Papers


The October 2021 Pandora Papers revealed that Zelenskyy and his chief aide and the head of the Security Service of UkraineIvan Bakanov operated a network of offshore companies in the British Virgin Islands, Cyprus, and Belize. These companies included some that owned expensive London property.^[202] Around the time of his 2019 election, Zelenskyy handed his shares in a key offshore company over to Shefir, but the two men appear to have made an arrangement for Zelenskyy's family to continue receiving the money from these companies.^[202] Zelenskyy's election campaign had centred on pledges to clean up the government of Ukraine.^[202] In a 17 October 2021 interview with ICTV, Zelenskyy did not deny that in 2012 he used offshore companies.^[203] He claimed he did this to avoid (his then satirical TV shows) being "influenced by politics".^[203] Zelenskyy stressed that neither he nor any member of "Kvartal 95" were involved in money laundering.<sup>[203]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volody...Pandora_Papers</sup>

Seems your kinda guy Herman. Namely someone who has probably never heard of the Pandora Papers.

[kingwilly]

Very unpopular opinion to state that …. and bears full responsibility- along with 'US lead Nato' and (of course) Mr Putin for the shit Ukraine is in now.

You, like Backspin are perversely attracted to holding an, any unpopular opinions in a vain attempt to feel different/edgy/special like a teenager wearing goth clothing and make up.

There is only one person on your list who bears full responsibility for this war, you cretin!

[misskit]

^^^^And who is this Lowkey person and why does he know so much about Zelensky? Got a link?

^ Not attempt to feel edgy. Just an attempt to feel something.

[Backspin]

Sir Roderic Lyne, former British ambassador to Russia, warned a year ago that "[pushing] Ukraine into NATO [...] is stupid on every level." He adds "if you want to start a war with Russia, that's the best way of doing it."
https://twitter.com/SamScottish5/status/1498541911854174209?s=20&t=Km787wCTz9wUIormnd8PGA

CIA director Bill Burns in 2008: "Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for [Russia]" and "I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests"
https://twitter.com/laurenibsolm/status/1498499439031459846?s=20&t=VxJnKj0OwIRFQs7504v52A

Right before war broke out, this is famous economist Jeffrey Sachs writing a column in the FT warning that "NATO enlargement is utterly misguided and risky. True friends of Ukraine, and of global peace, should be calling for a US and NATO compromise with Russia." https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1498491252420984834/photo/1

[Backspin]

Russian losses since invasion start exceed 11,000 military, 290 tanks, 46 planes, 68 helicopters – AFU General Staff

Russian military losses since the beginning of the invasion exceed 11,000 servicemen, 290 tanks, 999 armored combat vehicles and 117 artillery systems, the press service of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has said.


"The total combat losses of the enemy from February 24 to March 7 amounted to approximately 11,000 soldiers killed in action, 290 tanks, 999 armored combat vehicles, 117 artillery systems, 50 multiple rocket launchers, 23 air defense systems, 46 aircraft, 68 helicopters, 454 vehicles, three ships/boats, 60 tanks and seven UAVs of operational and tactical level," the report said.

Russian losses since invasion start exceed 11,000 military, 290 tanks, 46 planes, 68 helicopters – AFU General Staff

The over exaggeratation here is just madness. The whole idea is to completely inflate the war for an attempted regime change in Russia.

There has been about 600 war casualties for Russia so far.

[Switch]

To Punish Russia The 'Liberal Order' Attempts To Suicide Itself

Two days ago we looked at why Russia is doing what it does:

Russia understood Zelensky's remark in Munich as a threat by Ukraine to acquire nuclear weapons. It already has the expertise, materials and means to do that.

A fascist controlled government with nukes on Russia's border? This is not about Putin at all. No Russian government of any kind could ever condone that.

I believe that this credible threat, together with the artillery preparations for a new war on Donbas, was what convinced Russia's government to intervene by force.

The 'west' had failed to understand Russia's need to act. It has failed to make the necessary commitments, and accept Russia's reasonable demands, to avoid the struggle. In consequence it will now fall apart. The knee-jerk reaction to Russia's 'special military operation' in Ukraine will, as Alastair Crooke writes, lead to the end of the 'liberal order':

Not once in this post, or the one that follows it, did you mention the real culprit in all of this!
One very carefully socially distanced, and seriously illindividual is responsible for the whole debacle. Even his senior aides, politicians and military leaders were paraded before him to give their support to authourising the two rogue states in eastern Ukraine.

On that basis alone, one man took it upon himself to turn a special operation, into a full blown invasion. The power base back home reluctantly authorized a change in status for two regions of another country. They did NOT authorise a full scale invasion. The name of the individual also gives his name to the follow up invasion.

Make no mistake this is “Putin’s War”.

[bsnub]

Seems your kinda guy Herman. Namely someone who has probably never heard of the Pandora Papers.

So a Jew is a top funder of the Azov battalion? You can't make this shit up. Well, I guess you can because somebody did.

There has been about 600 war casualties for Russia so far.

Sometimes it pays to think before you post any random shit off the interwebs. The Three Stooges strike again and again and...

[Switch]

The over exaggeratation here is just madness. The whole idea is to completely inflate the war for an attempted regime change in Russia.

There has been about 600 war casualties for Russia so far.

If only you were subjected to reality, instead of state sponsored propaganda? The truth probably lies somewhere in between, but I suspect the scrutiny available for the higher figure gives it greater credence.

[Norton]

There has been about 600 war casualties for Russia so far.

600 vs 11,000 is a big difference init. Someone is lying big but we know for sure not the Russians as they are good guys who would never lie.

[kingwilly]

an attempted regime change in Russia.

I think you have that back to front!


But to be fair just about the whole world now wants regime change in Russia. Putin has demonstrated that he is completely mad.

[Backspin]

600 vs 11,000 is a big difference init. Someone is lying big but we know for sure not the Russians as they are good guys who would never lie.

No serious military analyst even from the US or NATO believes that anything close to 11000 men have been killed. It's simply madness but it's a good propaganda strategy.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

So a Jew is a top funder of the Azov battalion? You can't make this shit up. Well, I guess you can because somebody did.

I dont understand why your side of the argument keeps trying to make this red herring argument. And I am not saying that he is a Nazi, I simply dont know enough to make such claim, But why is it that a Jew can not be be a Nazi? Is it because of what German Nazis did to the Jews. Does a Nazi attitude has to always contain an antisemitic element. Or is Nazism a fascist attitude that can be directed toward all people considered inferior and or undesirable. Can a Jew consider others inferior or undesirable, and have a fascist outlook?
I looked at the definition of Nazism
"Nazism is a form of fascism, with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, scientific racism, and the use of eugenics into its creed."
Nazism - Wikipedia
Simply put can an person contain all of the above except antisemitism and be a Nazi. or can you do all this things but gain absolution because you are or like Jews?
When Putin makes those claims, do you think he did not know the Zelenskyy is Jewish? or do you think that he does not know what Nazism is?

[pickel]

^
Care to explain even one reason how Zelensky is a Nazi?

The Azov Battalion numbers between 1 and 2 thousand members. Sabang thinks it's a good war to create millions of refugees and thousands of civilian deaths over that.

[david44]

Labels can mislead

Some clam Hitler had Jewish blood
12000 jews served in the Wehrmacht
The Jews in Hitler'''s Military - Los Angeles Times

Many jew have protested Zionism ad mistreatment of Palestinians

There hs been racism in Israel against darker skinned Ethiopian Falasha jews

There is anti-semitism world wide

Some hate Jews
Some hate Arabs both semites

Xenophobia can be stirred by evil minds and use the fears of poor, less educated who fear change and blame not their Kings Emporers bankers but the poor immigrants who compete with tehm for jobs and space.

A brief scan of 20th century Ukrianian history is worth 5m to get insights

Until 1918 Austriain then post Versailles treaty bits were Czech Polish Russian etc

WW2 German brutality , many Jews were in Ukraine

Bandera and the Ukrainians who saw Georgian Stalin's enemy as their friends.

Ukraine | History, Flag, Population, President, Map, Language, & Facts | Britannica

History of Ukraine - Wikipedia

How different it could have been if aspiring Hitler had been admitted to Art College and teh Black hand gang had stayed home smoking Balkan Sobranie or checking their Facebook status

In addition to ground war there are other dimensions re Israel China Iran, Oil, Gas, debt , money ,access to warm water ports, Russian and Ukrainian nationalism , German fear of war and inflation, UK and France need to feel "players' long past their colonial hegemony, the inter relatedness will reveal itself at the pump price in the grocers and in where how safe to travel, study, work, its grim , don't shoot the messengers please.

Of course the USA with an evenly and bitterly divided electorate a weak divided congress, powerful weaponry , intelligence and reluctance to make fat people have to walk toto their trough work like an Australian, Chinese or German .Its much easier printing debt and demanding all oil is in dollars and bombing small places that disagee int aquiescence .IMHO

If you think its bad now , just imagine ow much worse it can get if teh they can keep it going until Trump returns .Aaaagh , I'm so old decrepit I wont be around, but want the best for the next generations and protection of our dwindling environment, all teh wepaons , devastation is energy , resources live sthat could be so better used to cherish each other andthe planet.

Shalom

Shit creep up , bit by bit then SUDAN!!