Ukraine war mega thread

[Backspin]

This 'West is the Best' narrative is all well and good norts, but to truly accept that means accepting the concept of 'Freedom of Choice'. A just Peace settlement should be based upon that, and rightly or not (in your/my/our opinion) a fair swathe of post Maidan revolution Ukraine- which ended the former Ukrainian federation- does not wish to remain with the resultant regime. Specifically, the provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk. Possibly others too- I do not know. They should be allowed that Freedom of Choice- otherwise what are we except hypocrites? I would welcome Referenda on a Provincial basis to put this to the Democratic test.

Most of central Ukraine would take a Ruble pension over a Hyrivnia one if given the choice. Its just a couple western provinces that are hardcore partisans. The land they are on was never Russia anyway. So maybe they will make a little Bandera Idlib there for them there

[Norton]

This 'West is the Best' narrative is all well and good norts, but to truly accept that means accepting the concept of 'Freedom of Choice'

Let's have a look at the Freedom of Choice way.
So far the Ukraine has said, no NATO, recognition of Crimea, neutrality, and omg will hold referendums in Donetsk and Luhansk. All these concessions but Putin refuses to stop his invasion. Why?

If freedom of choice is important then how about referendums for Siberian and Kaliningrad independance?

Putin has no time for freedom of choice or he would never invade a country that had freely choose it's government via a vote.

Only conclusion that can be drawn is he desires a return to the not so glorious days of the USSR. That is to have the Ukraine become a vassel state as is Belarus.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

Actual casualty figures? No one knows because both sides claim exaggerated figures that promote their own success. The truth is hidden behind propaganda, and that is the only truth available.

Faced with Putin’s outright lies and disinformation, what would you do if you were Zelensky?

Your first paragraph is very true IMO.
But the second paragraph can be turned around . The question can also be asked, what would you do if you were Putin.
It takes two to Tango.

[bsnub]

Horrifying...



Ukraine sinks another Russian ship...



Battle for Kharkiv...



Bumbling Russian army...

[harrybarracuda]

I would welcome Referenda on a Provincial basis to put this to the Democratic test.

Of course you would, because you know the Eastern ones would be completely rigged like Crimea was.

[harrybarracuda]

A just Peace settlement

The only "just" peace settlement is for Puffy Putin to fuck off out of Ukraine.

[sabang]

^^ I am not convinced of this prognosis (norts, way above). I may be wrong. Time will tell. Lets face it, we don't really know what is going behind closed doors at those 'talk turkey' negotiations. They say vlad no longer insists upon overthrowing Zelensky. Indications are, he will besiege Odessa. Well why- let the People decide. Maybe he is applying this pressure, to give himself a stronger hand in these negotiations. Or maybe he has more grandiose ambitions, in which case I will pronounce him a fool.

[harrybarracuda]

[bsnub]

Indications are, he will besiege Odessa.

They have to get there first.

[Backspin]

Bsnub says another ship was destroyed, meaning he believes there was a first one. But there WASNT. This isn't RT. Its IB Times

Ukraine sinks another Russian ship...

'Destroyed' Russian Warship Vasily Bykov Seen Unscathed In Crimean Port

Ukrainian Disinformation? 'Destroyed' Russian Warship Vasily Bykov Seen Unscathed In Crimean Port
Here is ABC news report on the ship:

<font size="4">

And if one was struck, the Russian ministry of defense wont deny it. And they aren't denying that one was struck this time.

[bsnub]

Bsnub says another ship was destroyed, meaning he believes there was a first one.

It is right there in the video exploding and burning, you utter fucking imbecile.

[Iceman123]

Reprensible does not do him justice.

Reprehensible

Sorry Hugh,
I am just filling in for Cyrille whilst he has a lie in.

[kingwilly]

The question can also be asked, what would you do if you were Putin.
It takes two to Tango.

FFS Bucky, more apologist shyte.

How does Ukrainian food differ from Russian food btw? Borscht and dumplings innit.

Why does it matter?

It's just more of Sabang's disingenuous attempts to derails the thread when he's been shown up, yet again.

[Norton]

I may be wrong. Time will tell

Unfortunately for all, agree.

[Switch]

Substitute the word 'harm' for the word 'sanction' then- and waddyagot? same thang. But thanks for the semantic lesson, seem that is everything these days.

….. only because you keep missing the obvious.

Sanctions are useful tool against self insulated tyrants, otherwise normal jogging could continue, in a normal democracy. If you post childish propaganda I will reply in kind. Up your game or expect more of the same.

[panama hat]

Because Germany will need to buy Rubles first.

From an economics-point-of-view it is only a short-term 'bonus' as the rouble has lost much of its value and there are rouble reserves still outside of Russia.

A dumb move, but that's to be expected in his nationalistic chest-thumping lies to his people

[pickel]

Graph is from .. ( ). XX : Russia and USSR In The 20th Century Wars.

20th century wars? The Soviets lost over 11 million KIA in WW2 alone. Your graph is ridiculous.

As many as 27 million Soviets lost their lives, with as many as 11.4 million military deaths joined by up to 10 million civilian deaths due to military activity and an additional 8 million to 9 million deaths due to famine and disease.

World War II Casualties by Country 2022

[bsnub]

a complete domination in space, skies, sea and ground

They cannot even construct a believable lie.

All you push are lies, skiddy. The invasion has stalled, the Ukrainians are counter attacking, and the Russians are in disarray. But you keep living in your fantasy land, little boy.

Your graph is ridiculous.

Total fake news BS as usual from Skiddy,

[bsnub]

[Norton]

Short, sweet and about as predictable as a very predictable thing.

Expect some coal will be needed as well.

[sabang]

May as well make hay while the sun shines- I expect they are werkin' overtime in those remaining east German collieries as we speak.

[HermantheGerman]

I do hope Vlad bombs his chocolate factory, if nothing else.

You forgot to mention on how many dead civilians you are hoping for.

[sabang]

Maybe one- fatboy himself. I bet his chocolate sucks too. But if you can arrange a group of Nazis for a choc tasting tour, I guess that is acceptable too.

[HermantheGerman]

Nobody gives a fuck about Ukrainian lives- except maybe, the invading forces.

I reserved going this far in regard to my criticism of you, but that comment is so reprehensible I will not hold back. You * are an utter scumbag.

I knew that from the beginning.
He is also a fraud.


* I removed the sir

[bsnub]

^
Too bad, you could not be shipped there to be used as a target to range the artillery the bastards are using to massacre civilians.