Ukraine war mega thread

[Backspin]

Not that any of you lot are interested, but here is a good article on the history and the Ukraine/Russian tensions ... Everything you need to know about the 2014 Ukraine crisis - Vox

The facts

From 1991 to 2014, Ukraine was not in the CSTO and had independence (meaning not part of any security bloc. Like Finland) written into its Constitution.

In 2014, the US govt overthrew the legal govt and ripped up the independence statutes in the Constitution which caused Russia to react by first securing it's most important naval base. And that's how the war started.


Tell me how Finland has suffered or has been attacked by Russia because it's independent and not part of NATO or the CSTO.

[Switch]

The facts

From 1991 to 2014, Ukraine was not in the CSTO and had independence (meaning not part of any security bloc. Like Finland) written into its Constitution.

In 2014, the US govt overthrew the legal govt and ripped up the independence statutes in the Constitution which caused Russia to react by first securing it's most important naval base. And that's how the war started.


Tell me how Finland has suffered or has been attacked by Russia because it's independent and not part of NATO or the CSTO.

Stop making shit up and pretending your opinions are facts. They are not.

[Backspin]

Stop making shit up and pretending your opinions are facts. They are not.

Well you can look them up yourself and challenge them.

Fact 1. Ukraine was not in the CSTO.

Fact 2. Independence was written into the Constitution and removed by the US after 2014.

Fact 3. Finland is independent and not in NATO or the CSTO and Russia and Finland have never had issues with each other.

[thailazer]

Interesting to watch the body language on this exchange. Doesn't look like everyone is on-board with Putin.

[russellsimpson]

And to think all of this could have probably been avoided simply by NATO stating that Ukraine would never be a part of the organization.

Which should have been a no- brainer in any case as Ukraine would never have been invited to join, article five would have precluded that.

I'd like to see a referundum now in the two brakaway states to determine what the wishes of the population is.

I have seen litle good will on the part of 'the West' in dealing with the Russians since the Fall of the Wall. Victor Yanokovich was a democratically elected president of Ukraine and he was effectively removed from office by an American led coup-d'etat essentially un der the direction of Hillary Clinton, a woman who has been indirectly responsible for more bloodshed and carnage than any person in the 'modern era'.

I believe the root of our current problems in Eatern Ukraine can probably be traced back to the Fall of the Wall. Instead of being gracious in victory the west instead gloated like recalcitrant teenagers, the chickens have come home to roost. The sanctions will inflict pain on both sides. My opinions.

[Backspin]

I thought so also.



Germany Can Do Without Russian Gas, Minister Says

However Germany’s power demands could be “compensated” with other energy sources and suppliers, including an accelerated renewables push set out by the government, he said.

I'm sure everyday Europeans are really thankful that US belligerence with Russia has scuppered NS2

Europe's energy crisis: Five charts to explain why your bills might go up this winter | Euronews

[helge]

Its a little bit like the Olympics in the old days, you knew exactly that U.S.S.R. would win all gold medals (followed by East Germany) due to doping.

"all gold medals" is a lot, Herman.

And not to spoil your bias, but other nations doped too.

A lot

Will they understand my post

Very few does, Herman...very few

"WARNING! Manipulated Media"

So ban them !

They did in the Ukraine some 5 years ago, and look what that little chauvinistic piece of legislation brought along.

Russian Peacekeepers ..

No peace there.

Therefore the correct term would be "peace creators" or such

Humm ...

Exactly

However Germany’s power demands could be “compensated” with other energy sources and suppliers, including an accelerated renewables push set out by the government, he said.

Let's keep that at "other suppliers" shall we.

They just need to accelerate this plan. The countries long term goal is almost entirely renewable, so the time to do it is now.

Now !

I'm afraid this conflict will have blown over, before the next 50 windturbines will be ordered.

TTT
Things take time

[panama hat]

ussia/China/Iran & Central Asia/ India. No island is gonna beat them down. May as well realise the future.

You spectacularly missed the point in order to try to make yours

[panama hat]

And to think all of this could have probably been avoided simply by NATO stating that Ukraine would never be a part of the organization.

Why would you - and Backspit - take away a sovereign nation's right to make its own decisions?

I believe the root of our current problems in Eatern Ukraine can probably be traced back to the Fall of the Wall. Instead of being gracious in victory the west instead gloated like recalcitrant teenagers, the chickens have come home to roost. The sanctions will inflict pain on both sides. My opinions.

The 'wall' divided a nation - the only 'winner' was Germany. Nothing to do with being gracious.

[misskit]

Russia begins evacuating diplomatic staff from Ukraine

Russia on Wednesday began evacuating its embassy in Kyiv as Ukraine braces for a possible attack from Moscow, according to multiple news reports.


Russian state news agency Tass reported that the employees in all Russian diplomatic missions in Ukraine had begun to be evacuated.


In addition to Russia’s Kyiv embassy, it has consulates general in Kharkov, Odessa and Lvov, Tass also said.

The Russian flag was down at the embassy and police surrounded the building by Wednesday afternoon, according to The Associated Press.


Meanwhile, Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council chief Oleksiy Danilov also called for a national state of emergency. If that move is approved by the country's parliament, regional authorities would have the power to decide what measures apply, including security policies, traffic restrictions, document checks and other potential policies, the AP added.

At the same time, Ukraine encouraged its citizens to leave Russia as hopes of a diplomatic resolution to the crisis dwindled after Russian President Vladimir Putin recognized two separatist regions in eastern Ukraine as independent earlier this week.

Ukrainian Minister of Foreign Affairs Dmytro Kuleba has called upon the country's allies to step up against Russia and "impose more sanctions" in response to the escalating tensions.


"First decisive steps were taken yesterday, and we are grateful for them. Now the pressure needs to step up to stop Putin. Hit his economy and cronies. Hit more. Hit hard. Hit now," Kuleba tweeted.


President Biden announced sanctions against Russia on Tuesday, and other countries including the United Kingdom and European Union as well as Australia, Canada and Japan have done so as well.


Russia begins evacuating diplomatic staff from Ukraine | TheHill

[helge]

Fact 3. Finland is independent and not in NATO or the CSTO and Russia and Finland have never had issues with each other.

Finland is after all a foster child of Russia and was given independence almost immidiately after the oktober revolution.

On 2 November (15 November N.S.) 1917, the Bolsheviks declared a general right of self-determination, including the right of complete secession, "for the Peoples of Russia". On the same day, the Finnish Parliament issued a declaration by which it assumed, pro tempore, all the powers of the Sovereign in Finland.^[20]

^{I once heard an nasty rumour, that it was infact a young Josef Stalin who was the primus motor in the "liberation"}

[helge]

The foreign secretary of Ukraine,Dmytro Kuleba, is in Washington DC and he has praised the "strong looking" sanctions promised by Biden.

But he has changed his tune.
(no longer in Washington ?)

Now it's: More sanctions and he ended his request with :" Hit more, Hit hard, Hit now".



Mentioning Hit ler wouldn't be funny

[David48atTD]

Finland is after all a foster child of Russia and was given independence almost immediately after the oktober revolution.

Here is a good overview what what is recognised as the modern day Finland.

We’ll run through the main events in Finnish history. Broadly speaking, it can be divided into three chapters:

• the Swedish period prior to 1809, (hence why many Finnish places have 2 names, one Finnish, one Swedish ... Turku = Åbo)
• the Russian period from 1809 to 1917, (helge's October revolution reference above)
• and the independent period from 1917 to the present day.

Main outlines of Finnish history - thisisFINLAND

[David48atTD]

^

The Swedish reign

As a consequence of Swedish domination, the Swedish legal and social systems took root in Finland. Feudalism was not part of this system and the Finnish peasants were never serfs; they always retained their personal freedom. Finland’s most important centre was the town of Turku, founded in the middle of the 13th century. It was also the Bishop’s seat.



Finland as a Grand Duchy of Russia

When Sweden lost its position as a great power in the early 18th century, Russian pressure on Finland increased, and Russia conquered Finland in the 1808–1809 war with Sweden.
During the Swedish period, Finland was merely a group of provinces and not a national entity. It was governed from Stockholm, the capital of the Finnish provinces at that time. But when Finland was joined to Russia in 1809 it became an autonomous Grand Duchy. The Grand Duke was the Russian Emperor, whose representative in Finland was the Governor General.



The independent republic

On December 6, 1917, Parliament approved the declaration of independence drawn up by the Senate under the leadership of P.E. Svinhufvud (1861–1944).


---

But we digress as this is about Russia's invasion of Ukraine

[misskit]

‘Massive cyberattack’ underway, Ukraine reports

Government websites and banks in Ukraine have been hit by outages as part of a reported cyberattack against the country’s digital infrastructure, with officials in Kiev saying it is a major attempt by hackers to take down online platforms.


A statement issued on Wednesday evening by the country’s Minister of Digital Transformation Mikhail Fedorov said that “at around 4.00pm, another massive ‘denial-of service’ attack on our state began. There is data to this effect from a number of banks and there are also problems with accessing the website of the national parliament, the Cabinet of Ministers and the Foreign Ministry.”

Normal service has resumed in part, he added, after traffic was switched to another provider to prevent servers going down. The Ministries of Defense and Internal Affairs also announced they had encountered technical issues with their websites earlier in the day, in addition to the security services and a number of other ministries.

The country has reported a series of cyberattacks that leaders in Kiev have blamed on Russia, amid an increasingly tense standoff across the border between the two former Soviet republics. Moscow has consistently denied any involvement in the incidents.


President Volodymyr Zelensky signed a decree earlier on Wednesday declaring a state of emergency across the nation as Western leaders warned that Moscow could soon launch an offensive against its neighbor.


Earlier this week, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that the country would formally recognize the two breakaway Donbass republics of Donetsk and Lugansk, ordering his country's armed forces to begin "peacekeeping operations" in the region.


Separatist leaders and Kiev's military have accused each other of carrying out heavy shelling across the contact line in recent days. Last Friday, the rebel leaders claimed they had intelligence suggesting that Ukraine is prepared to order an offensive to reclaim the two territories.


Kiev, however, has rejected allegations that it is planning to take back the region by force, with the secretary of the country’s National Security and Defense Council, Alexey Danilov, claiming “there is an attempt to provoke our forces,” and that troops would open fire only “if there is a threat to the lives of our service members.”

‘Massive cyberattack’ underway, Ukraine reports — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union

[David48atTD]

A tweet from the German Embassy ...

[helge]

RT Russia ?

Misskit; how could you ?

[david44]

Who pulled out of Minks

The ferrets? Squirrels will root anything, I prefer Bee Fur myself.

[David48atTD]

RT Russia ?

Misskit; how could you ?

CNBC ... Cyberattack hits Ukrainian banks and government websites

[russellsimpson]

Mentioning Hit ler wouldn't be funny

[david44]

Russia and Finland have never had issues with each other.

Finland was under Russian colonial rule in my father's lifetime and later one of the biggest thrashing ever given to the Russian Army.

Go Ogle Winter and War and get back to us
The Winter War, also known as First Soviet-Finnish War, was a war between the Soviet Union (USSR) and Finland. It began with a Soviet invasion of Finland.

How did the Finns beat the Soviets?



On 12 December, the advancing Soviet 139th Rifle Division, supported by the 56th Rifle Division, was defeated by a much smaller Finnish force under Paavo Talvela in Tolvajärvi, the first Finnish victory of the war. In Central and Northern Finland, roads were few and the terrain hostile.

In the second war the reds prevailed

Skip ads to 1.44m

[helge]

Russia and Finland have never had issues with each other.

The Winter War

Confusing USSR with Russia ?

I'm sure that Finland had some disagreements with the Soviets(nothing that couldn't be settled with a trip to Moscow, though )

Never heard of major issues between Russia and Finland

Have you ?

I'm afraid that Backspin is right again Satana perkele !

[S Landreth]

U.S. reimposes sanctions on Nord Stream 2 over Russia'''s "invasion"

President Biden said Wednesday he will reverse last year's decision to waive sanctions on the entity and corporate officers behind the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, a day after Germany froze certification of the Kremlin-backed project.

Why it matters: It's an escalation in the U.S. sanctions response to what the administration has called the "the beginning of a Russian invasion" of Ukraine, and delivers a fresh blow to an $11 billion pipeline that has proven to be a massive headache for President Biden ever since he waived sanctions last May.

• Construction of the Russia-to-Germany pipeline was nearly completed by that point, and Biden believed allowing it to proceed would help repair U.S. relations with Berlin damaged under former President Trump.
• On Tuesday, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz surprised critics by suspending its certification and declaring that "the situation has fundamentally changed" due to Russia's aggression — though some suspected that the process could be revived down the line.

What they're saying: "Yesterday, after further close consultations between our two governments, Germany announced that it would halt certification of the pipeline. Today, I have directed my administration to impose sanctions on Nord Stream 2 AG and its corporate officers," Biden said in a statement.

• "These steps are another piece of our initial tranche of sanctions in response to Russia’s actions in Ukraine. As I have made clear, we will not hesitate to take further steps if Russia continues to escalate."

Zoom in: Nord Stream 2 AG, the operator of the pipeline, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Russia's state-owned energy giant Gazprom. The company's CEO, Matthias Warning, is a close Putin ally and former German Stasi officer.

The big picture: Consecutive U.S. administrations have opposed Nord Stream 2 because it would increase Europe's reliance on Russian gas, which President Vladimir Putin has in the past exploited as a geopolitical weapon.

• Ukraine also views the pipeline as an "existential threat" in part because it would deprive the country of billions of dollars in gas-transit fees, and has intensely lobbied the U.S. and Germany to put a stop to it.
• Both the U.S. and German governments have faced significant pressure to end the pipeline as punishment for a Russian invasion of Ukraine, which Biden publicly committed to doing at a press conference with Scholz earlier this month.

Between the lines: Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) led a blockade against dozens of Biden's State Department nominees for six months in protest of the decision to waive sanctions.

• Sanctions on Nord Stream 2 had previously garnered overwhelming bipartisan support, but the Biden administration repeatedly lobbied Democrats to vote against them for the sake of preserving "trans-Atlantic unity."
• On Wednesday, Cruz announced he would lift his holds: "President Biden made the right decision today. Allowing Putin's Nord Stream 2 to come online would have created multiple, cascading, and acute security crises for the United States and our European allies for generations to come," he said.

[helge]

Here are the slavic idiots that have no spine. This is a typical Russian History scene. Kneel and bow down to your dictator.





A good comedy scene would be Putin getting up and throwing his shoe at each one of them.

The Personal Politics of Putin’s Security Council Meeting - The Moscow Times

The true drama was in how the most powerful men — and one woman — in Russia danced and squirmed around the president.

If the Russian president never faces a war crimes tribunal, he ought to face an industrial one, as he seems to cultivate a toxic work environment.




Well said!

You'll love this if you haven't already seen it

[sabang]

So when it really comes down to it, the US interest in this manufactured crusade is to sell more arms, and sell more overpriced fracked gas. Costing it's European 'allies' (in name only) billions. Nice.
And you know full well it will make no difference to Vlad- the Chinese are ready to take up the slack. Nice windfall for them too. Job done, lets move on to the next manufactured crisis- unless Germany and France are actually willing to stand up and further their own citizens interests. But that is their problem.