Ukraine war mega thread

[sabang]

Seems to me the title of this thread should be- Ukraine, more NATO posturing.

[harrybarracuda]

Seems to me the title of this thread should be- Ukraine, more NATO posturing.

Yes but you're an imbecile.

NATO aren't the ones that have advanced troops and weapons up to the border of a country from which they have already stolen sovereign territory, you stupid boy.

[sabang]

Couldn't you get even a junior job with Nato 'arry? You couldn't be any dumber than the current dipshits.

[Samuel]

It's all just a matter of perspective, of course.

If the same thing that happened in Ukraine had occurred in Hungary, the west would view the situation differently.

An elected Ukrainian president decided not to make a free trade deal with the E.U.

There were violent protests, and the president was removed in a "coup."

The new government signed the free trade deal and wants to join NATO.

Hmm, what would the west say if the Hungarian President was removed in a coup and the new government wanted to forge closer ties with Russia?

[bsnub]

You couldn't be any dumber than the current dipshits.

Oh, my! Another post in support of a dictator. Are you sure you do not like the orange moron?

[harrybarracuda]

Couldn't you get even a junior job with Nato 'arry? You couldn't be any dumber than the current dipshits.

And now you're back to wittering gibberish again.

[harrybarracuda]

Hmm, what would the west say if the Hungarian President was removed in a coup and the new government wanted to forge closer ties with Russia?

Funny you should say that.

Wasn't really a coup, it was the popular removal of a Putin lackey (he's still in Russia now as Vlad's guest).

Ukraine has grown apart from Russia now, bar a few enclaves. Your argument is almost like Ireland should invade Glasgow because there's a lot of bead-twirling kiddie fiddlers there.

Things have changed and it's Putin that's prolonging the mess.

Five reasons why Ukraine rejected Vladimir Putin’s “Russian World” - Atlantic Council

[Samuel]

Ukraine has grown apart from Russia now, bar a few enclaves.

Yes, but to prevent war, it's good to see things from others' perspectives.

Maybe, the west can chill out for now on the "Ukraine in NATO" talk.

Putin has basically said he'd be happy with that.

[NamPikToot]

You do realise you are talking about reasoning with a man who sanctions assassinations with impunity on foreign soil.

[Samuel]

You do realise you are talking about reasoning with a man who sanctions assassinations with impunity on foreign soil.

I wouldn't want to live in Putin's Russia.

Though, reasoning is not something he lacks, IMO.

Have you heard his press conferences?

Biden is like a little, babbling baby compared to the 5 or 10-minute-long detailed, logical answers Putin gives to each question the press asks.

Anyways, do you have a better idea to calm the situation?

[NamPikToot]

Anyways, do you have a better idea to calm the situation?

The tension is of his making, he has ratcheted up both the rhetoric and action, he's pushing boundaries, if he gains - check, if he doesn't no matter he's kept the west occupied and demonstrated Russia is still a force - its petty dictator 101.

Have you been watching the last 2-3 decades? we've tried placating these megalomaniacs, we've tried appeasing religious nuts and we've legitimised dictators all in the name of keeping the peace.

[Samuel]

The tension is of his making, he has ratcheted up both the rhetoric and action, he's pushing boundaries, if he gains - check, if he doesn't no matter he's kept the west occupied and demonstrated Russia is still a force - its petty dictator 101.

Have you been watching the last 2-3 decades? we've tried placating these megalomaniacs, we've tried appeasing religious nuts and we've legitimised dictators all in the name of keeping the peace.

Fair point: But, Putin isn't a Saddam or a Gaddafi.

Russia has as many nuclear weapons as the U.S.

IMO, NATO should just be abolished: This isn't the 1980s with The West vs. The Soviet Union.

That would solve a lot of the "us vs. them" nonsense, in my opinion.

[NamPikToot]

NATO should just be abolished:

OK and leave it all to the UN?

[Samuel]

OK and leave it all to the UN?

Leave what?

Do you think a world war will break out between Europe and Russia if the U.S. isn't invoved in helping to defend Europe.

Europe has chosen to take gas from the russian pipeline: They seem to be getting along fine without Uncle Sam watching over them.

[NamPikToot]

i'm talking about an institution that will, if necessary act with unity against the aforementioned with sanctions or other means. Not one that has singularly failed on its own to achieve anything bar allow despots seats and votes whilst being paid off by the very same powers they should be policing. Its an almost universal truism that every UN institution is influenced by corruption and is a failure.

[Samuel]

i'm talking about an institution that will, if necessary act with unity against the aforementioned with sanctions or other means

Europe has chosen to take gas from the russian pipeline: They seem to be getting along fine without Uncle Sam watching over them.

So, you really think Europe needs Uncle Sam to protect them?

[NamPikToot]

is Ukraine Europe? its about protecting a democracy or have you forgotten that? Do you just let aggressors take what they want. Do you think the much vaunted EU is capable of influencing Putin with a threat to cut off cash? he'll do what he wants and laugh at them whilst he's turning the tap off.

[harrybarracuda]

the 5 or 10-minute-long detailed, logical answers Putin gives to each question the press asks.

Do you mean the lengthy, pre-written, scripted drivel he churns out on a regular basis?

Anyways, do you have a better idea to calm the situation?

Yes. Putin should get the fuck out of Ukraine, stop stirring the shit and move his troops away from the border, you silly arse.

[harrybarracuda]

Fair point: But, Putin isn't a Saddam or a Gaddafi.

Russia has as many nuclear weapons as the U.S.

IMO, NATO should just be abolished: This isn't the 1980s with The West vs. The Soviet Union.

That would solve a lot of the "us vs. them" nonsense, in my opinion.

You really are just being a troll now.

Putin hasn't put 100,000 troops into a potential combat zone in Europe as a defensive measure.

And Ukraine being in NATO would not be an existential threat to Russia.

He wouldn't have done any of this if Ukraine was in NATO.

And he's literally just been bleating about the demise of the USSR.

[harrybarracuda]

Leave what?

Do you think a world war will break out between Europe and Russia if the U.S. isn't invoved in helping to defend Europe.

Europe has chosen to take gas from the russian pipeline: They seem to be getting along fine without Uncle Sam watching over them.

Europe has just drafted a raft of sanctions to stop Putin's expansion plans. You complete tit.

[Samuel]

So, you really think Europe needs Uncle Sam to protect them?

Do you think the much vaunted EU is capable of influencing Putin with a threat to cut off cash? he'll do what he wants and laugh at them whilst he's turning the tap off.

So, it sounds like the answer is "yes."

You think the E.U. needs NATO so Uncle Sam can be there to stand up to Putin.

By the way, the U.S. was trying to tell the E.U. not to take gas from Russia — to no avail.

Anyways, IMO, it's time to break the umbilical cord: The E.U. should be able to deal with Russia by themselves.

If you think that might lead to WW3, so be it.

I doubt it — and if you think about it I'm sure you doubt it, too.

[harrybarracuda]

So, you really think Europe needs Uncle Sam to protect them?

That's up to them.

Not every European country is in NATO, is it?

[harrybarracuda]

You think the E.U. needs NATO so Uncle Sam can be there to stand up to Putin.

Anyways, IMO, it's time to break the umbilical cord: The E.U. should be able to deal with Russia by themselves.

If you think that might lead to WW3, so be it.

Again: Not every country in Europe is in NATO.

So if Putin wants to invade Finland, the EU could actually tell them they're on their own.

Which might make Finland consider joining NATO frankly.

And it's their choice.

[Samuel]

You complete tit.

Same as the Assange thread where you called me names because you said he broke into a computer. When I refuted your point, you ignored my point and didn't apologize for insulting me when you were mistaken.

You go on ignore.

[NamPikToot]

Europe has just drafted a raft of sanctions to stop Putin's expansion plans. You complete tit.

erm wrong, they have proposed a range of measures they hope will influence Putin. He may decide to react with his own not insignificant measues given its winter - the best time to deploy them.