Ukraine war mega thread

[strigils]

Putin Accuses Ukraine of Provocations in Phone Call With Merkel:

why is he bleating to her, she has no power here, nor the EU?

[panama hat]

Putin Accuses Ukraine of Provocations in Phone Call With Merkel: Kremlin

. . . with Merkel criticising Putin.
And:

They also discussed the case of jailed Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny

Also criticising Putin

Good post, Klongdick.

why is he bleating to her, she has no power here, nor the EU?

Where is 'here', chav-trash? Your alcohol-fog confusing you?

"nor the EU" . . . aren't you always whining about Merkel and Germany pulling the strings in the EU?

Make up your mind, drunkard.

[Backspin]

. . . with Merkel criticising Putin.
And:

Also criticising Putin

Good post, Klongdick.


Where is 'here', chav-trash? Your alcohol-fog confusing you?

"nor the EU" . . . aren't you always whining about Merkel and Germany pulling the strings in the EU?

Make up your mind, drunkard.

Navalny will be out in 2 years. Unlike Julian Assange who most likely never see the light of day again. Unless he somehow finds his way onto a flight bound for Moscow. Like Edward Snowden did

[Backspin]

Opinion and analysis

Richard Sakwa (born 1953) is Professor of Russian and European politics at theUniversity of Kent. He has written books about Russian and Eastern European communist and post-communist politics.



(This is from this book review https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ne-Ukraine.pdf

One such scholar is Richard Sakwa, a well-known specialist in the history of the Soviet Union and contemporary Russia. His new book, Frontline Ukraine: Crisis in the Borderlands(2015),is a description and analysis of the events in and around Ukraine from late 2013 up to,and including,the second half of 2014s

The author considers the Ukrainian events from the point of view of the dismaying prospects of a new Cold War and a further split between Europe and Russia. He believes that the first,based on a “monistic” model of Western democracy,is aggressively expanding eastward, assisted by NATO, and thus has an anti-Russian orientation

According to the author, the conflicts in the post-Soviet space are to be explained by the aggressive expansion of the Western, “Atlantic” model eastward. ”In his opinion, the culmination of this process has been the Ukrainian crisis, which has “created a new and irreparable line across the heart of the continent”

In response to the classic Russian question “Who’s to blame?” the author’s answer is unequivocal:the countries of the West,as a whole, and the USA and NATO,in particular. He also identifies the Eastern European countries as being responsible for anti-Russian sanctions, especially Poland and Lithuania:“There is a group of militantly revanchist powers, with Lithuania and Poland in the vanguard".

He believes that“Russia under Putin is not a land-grabbing state, it is a profoundly conservative power and its actions are designed to maintain the status quo.”Russia “makes no claim to revise the existing international order, but to make it more inclusive and universal” . Russia refuses “to submit itself to Atlanticist hegemony and global dominance” .In Sakwa’s opinion, Russia is kept busy constantly defending itself against anaggressive West. “The Russo-Georgian war of August 2008 was in effect the first of the ‘wars to stop NATO enlargement’;

“Putin is rational and pragmatic”;he simply manoeuvres among various political interest groups and is “well practiced in the art of societal management

“A free and prosperous Ukraine was certainly not something opposed by Russia, but Moscow simply did not understand why this had to be couched in anti-Russian terms and threaten its economic interests”

Anyway this post got buried on the last page. Just shows that there is 2 sides to the story. This is a legitimate British professor.

[Backspin]

^ That is very low what you just did there. I should report it.

It was buried for a reason you dumb twat. It was because nobody cares.

Most people don't care about the truth yes. They just go along with the cheap anti Russia propaganda.

The reality is , according to a distinguished British professor and specialist in east European affairs:

Russia under Putin is not a land-grabbing state, it is a profoundly conservative power and its actions are designed to maintain the status quo.”Russia “makes no claim to revise the existing international order, but to make it more inclusive and universal” . Russia refuses “to submit itself to Atlanticist hegemony and global dominance” .In Sakwa’s opinion, Russia is kept busy constantly defending itself against anaggressive West.

[Klondyke]

Originally Posted by Klondyke
Putin Accuses Ukraine of Provocations in Phone Call With Merkel:

why is he bleating to her, she has no power here, nor the EU?

You obviously do not have much knowledge what's going on there, do you?
Firstly, Merkel is one of the guarantee of the Minsk treaties (if you know what's that about?).

Secondly, EU (NATO) huge armies are rattling their sables (Defender 2021) at the gates of Russia, supposed to do a dirty job in provoking new serious conflict.

Furthermore, still the big problem of Germany - Nord Stream 2 - is in question (not of Germany) - reducing (with other projects already realized) substantially the gas flow through Ukraine, their easy huge income...

Or should Putin rather call his pal Joe? And ask him friendly: "Please stop the nonsense, or else..."

[lom]

Or should Putin rather call his pal Joe? And ask him friendly: "Please stop the nonsense, or else..."

The name of Putin's pal is Donald but Donald doesn't get Putin's call.

[Klondyke]

Or should Putin rather call his pal Joe?

The name of Putin's pal is Donald

Sorry, I did not attached to my joke a to make it more clear to all it's tongue-in-cheek....

It's good to call head of a powerful superpower, even if an foe, adversary "a killer" - a good way to: "America is Back". "Our Diplomacy is Back"... That will help to solve the world problems, won't it?

[Backspin]

There is many ignorant people who shill about the Holodomor when in 1933, the anti Russian Western part of Ukraine wasn't even a part of Ukraine at the time. It was part of Poland. And the pro Russia separatists were the ones in the thick of it.

[Backspin]

Just want to clear something up about the Holodomor. In 1933, the anti Russian Western part of Ukraine wasn't even a part of Ukraine at the time. It was part of Poland. And the pro Russia separatists were the ones in the thick of it. So that is no excuse for the Nazi elements in Ukraine.

Check out this twitter page for all the concerning developments in western Ukraine https://twitter.com/edolinsky

[sabang]

How then that the very first capital of Russia, was Kiev?

[OhOh]

Ukraine rules out offensive against Russia-backed separatists

Meanwhile, Russia says it fears resumption of full-scale war in east Ukraine and could take steps to protect civilians.

9 Apr 2021

"Ukraine has said it will not launch an offensive against Russia-backed separatists controlling two regions in the east, as fears grow of a significant escalation in a long-running conflict.

The statement came on Friday after fighting between the Ukrainian army and separatists intensified in recent weeks and Russia massed troops on the border.

“The liberation of the temporarily occupied territories by force will inevitably lead to the death of a large number of civilians and casualties among the military, which is unacceptable for Ukraine,” Ruslan Khomchak, chief of the general staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, said in a statement.

He accused Moscow of using “intimidation and blackmail by military force” to exacerbate the situation.

“Ukraine is supported by the entire civilised world. We are not alone in the face of the enemy,” Khomchak added.

Russian threat

Earlier on Friday, the Kremlin said it feared the resumption of full-scale fighting in eastern Ukraine and could take steps to protect civilians there.

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, said in a statement: “The Kremlin has fears that a civil war could resume in Ukraine, and if a civil war, a full-scale military action resumes near our borders that would threaten the Russian Federation’s security.”

The White House said on Thursday the number of Russian troops at the border with Ukraine was now greater “than at any time since 2014” when war in eastern Ukraine first broke out after Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula.

Amid the intensifying fighting, Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Thursday visited the eastern front line, where he spent the night.

“Our country’s fate is determined here,” Zelenskyy said on Facebook, while images released by his office showed him in the trenches clad in a helmet and bulletproof vest, shaking hands with soldiers.

Zelenskyy, who has urged NATO to speed up his country’s membership into the alliance to support Ukraine, said on Thursday he had visited positions where Ukrainian troops were killed and wounded in recent weeks.

He said 26 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed since the start of the year, compared with 50 in all of 2020.

The conflict in Ukraine’s mainly Russian-speaking east has killed more than 13,000 people since 2014.

On Friday, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova warned that Ukraine’s NATO bid “wouldn’t only lead to a massive escalation of the situation in the southeast but could also entail irreversible consequences for the Ukrainian statehood”.

Ukraine rules out offensive against Russia-backed separatists | Conflict News | Al Jazeera

A step back from needless carnage. One hopes he will deliver the agreed actions as defined in the Minsk II Agreement.

Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements

Summary:

This document is the signed "Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements" agreed by the Trilateral Contact Group at the Summit in Minsk on 12 February 2015.

https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peac...reement_en.pdf

[Saint Willy]

On Friday, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova warned that Ukraine’s NATO bid “wouldn’t only lead to a massive escalation of the situation in the southeast but could also entail irreversible consequences for the Ukrainian statehood”.

[Backspin]

@ohoh

The exact same thing happened in Georgia in 2008. Military buildup. Then the president said he would not attack. Then he did attack.

Saakashvili in 2008 broke promise not to use force in South Ossetia, Abkhazia — Putin - Russian Politics & Diplomacy - TASS

MOSCOW, March 11. /TASS/. Georgia’s former president, Mikhail Saakashvili, had promised Vladimir Putin he would not tackle the issue of South Ossetia and Abkhazia from the position of strength only to eventually break his word, the Russian leader told TASS in an interview for the project entitled "20 Questions with Vladimir Putin".

"We had a lot of discussions with him on the subject when he was still in office," Putin said, adding that he had asked Saakashvili to refrain by all means from trying to use force in relations with South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The Georgian president then promised to "never do that."

[Klondyke]

When two are doing the same thing, it is not always the same.

Watching one hour ago on Aljazeera:

The Occupation Of The American Mind
An unflinching look at the information wars Israel and its supporters have been waging for decades to win the hearts and minds of the American people.

The program showing the phrases often repeated by Israel big guys: "The right to defend ourselves". And the suit followed by US big guys telling that Israel has full rights to defend themselves.

How the "defending" is resulting is well known over decades: not only within their own territory but also outside.

When Russia is preparing - within their own territory - for "defending" themselves while strong armies build-up is at their gates, it's a "provocation, and a threat for EU, NATO and the whole world" ...

(A different reporting?)

[russellsimpson]

Seems like a serious de-escalation has occured in the "non-conflict. I'd like to attempt a few points re: the situation.

On Friday, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova warned that Ukraine’s NATO bid “wouldn’t only lead to a massive escalation of the situation in the southeast but could also entail irreversible consequences for the Ukrainian statehood”.

Let me take a stab at breaking the code. I would say that the Russians are saying to Ukraine, " In a major conflict Russia could simply take over the whole of Ukraine and integrate it back into Mother Russia. That could be seen as a threat, though not a very serious one.

Why is Zelensky so adamant in somehow pressing NATO to speed up Ukraine membership. I can't for the life of me see NATO inviting Ukraine to join any time soon. The USA, one would hope, has no great desire to see this conflict escalate. No more than Russia does.

Ukraine accuses Russia of "intimidation and blackmail by military force" A novel idea no doubt if anyone can ever figure out what the hell it means. Something can always get lost in translation.

Zelensky, in support of hastening Ukraine's mmembership in NATO: "Since the beginning of the year we have lost 26 soldiers when all of last year we only lost 50 for the whole year. He may be lacking on the brain cell count front. It may well be that the issue is in the translation. Perhaps he was being interviewed by a woman whose native language was not Ukrainian.

I digress.

In any case we can all feel some relief that calmer minds seemed to have prevailed.


No Mega thread will be required after all. A relief. The good Lord has looked down upon us.

[OhOh]

not only within their own territory but also outside.

How is that even possible without 2 or 3 Carrier Battle Groups (CVBG)?

[Klondyke]

In any case we can all feel some relief that calmer minds seemed to have prevailed.

To get the "calmer minds" it needs somebody with a great "patience".

That something what about I placed a link yesterday in another thread:
https://teakdoor.com/speakers-corner...ml#post4242288 (How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?)

[Klondyke]

The USA, one would hope, has no great desire to see this conflict escalate.

How you can be so sure? That's exactly what's here:

The exact same thing happened in Georgia in 2008. Military buildup. Then the president said he would not attack. Then he did attack.

Who was behind that provocation? And the result? The South Ossetia and Abkhazia have gained their independence...

And results of Ukraine Mejdan 2014? Instead of erecting a Navy base (not of Russia, not of Ukraine) on Crimea, the Crimeans gained their independence...

[russellsimpson]

The South Ossetia and Abkhazia have gained their independence...

I wasn't following that situation closely.

And results of Ukraine Mejdan 2014? Instead of erecting a Navy base (not of Russia, not of Ukraine) on Crimea, the Crimeans gained their independence...

Can you clarify that?

[Backspin]

I wasn't following that situation closely.





Can you clarify that?

Not RT. Not Russian foreign ministery.

Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report | Reuters

[russellsimpson]

Let us deal with one Evil at a time. "Sufficient" unto the day and all that

For bookkeeping connsideration perhaps a new thread dealing with South Ossetia and Abkhazia would be in order.

Would it have legs?

[Saint Willy]

Nice thread title change.

[lom]

Nice thread title change.

preparation for the dog house

[bsnub]

preparation for the dog house

Surprised it hasn't been moved already.