The U.K and the E.U - In or out?

From The Guardian...about the Turkey deal: I always thought that Germany were the main opponents of Turkey entry....

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Rights concerns put EU-Turkey deal in peril as MPs brawl in Ankara
Suspension of Turkish parliament halts passage of laws needed to win European support for visa-free travel for Turks
A key deadline looks increasingly likely to be missed in plans to grant Turkish citizens visa-free travel in the EU as part of a vital migration deal, after fighting in the parliament in Ankara and a stern warning of no special favours from Brussels. Brawling between ruling party and pro-Kurdish MPs late on Wednesday resulted in Turkey’s parliament being suspended until Monday, halting work on laws the country needs to pass if the European commission is to recommend the controversial visa-waiver scheme to member states in a decision due next Wednesday.

The deputy head of the commission, Frans Timmermans, reiterated on Thursday that the EU executive would not soften the 72 conditions Turkey must meet to ensure visa-free travel, a key part of the controversial agreement aiming to stem the flow of migrants into the union.
“We will not play around with those benchmarks; the onus is on Turkey. They say they can do it,” Timmermans told the European parliament, adding that recent curbs on media freedoms and human rights in Turkey did not necessarily bode well for fresh discussions on Turkey’s eventual membership of the EU – another component of the migrant deal.
“If they want to come close to the European Union so badly, let them prove that they can,” the former Dutch foreign minister said. “The distance between us and Turkey is not decreasing, it is increasing, because of human rights, the media and what is happening in civil society.”
The commission has said it will announce on 4 May whether it believes member states should agree to grant visa-free travel to Turkish citizens by the end of June as part of the deal under which Ankara has agreed to take back refugees and migrants who reach the Greek islands from Turkey.
But with governments under pressure to curb immigration, the prospect of lifting visa restrictions on 75 million Turks has aroused strong opposition in some member states.
Both France and Germany have reportedly proposed incorporating an “emergency brake” in the Turkish scheme – and in similar visa waiver schemes being discussed for Georgians and Ukrainians – to give the EU a quick and legal way to suspend them in the event of an unexpectedly large influx.
The EU has previously said Turkey fully meets only about half the 72 criteria, which include civil liberties guarantees. A report late last month by the European Stability Initiative, a thinktank monitoring Ankara’s progress, suggested there had been no movement at all on 12 of the conditions.

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Rights concerns put EU-Turkey deal in peril as MPs brawl in Ankara | World news | The Guardian

^^ Nationalism and national security are not the same thing. You may have confidence in the EU to continue to make sane decisions, but I don't. and the fact that Cameroon is supporting Turkey's entry into the EU only makes it more imperative we leave, as the man is a bigger idiot than I thought possible. And now Merkel supports their entry.

^ Thatcher gave support for Turkey's entry into the EU, as did every Government since...

^ Really? I have my doubts.

Just because successive UK governments supported Turkey's EU membership, does that mean we should? Red herring.

Cameroon is supposed to be looking after our national interests, as were previous governments, it only exposes how little we can trust them. Best to leave.

J

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Originally Posted by blue

Stop trying to justify your own fear with far fetched scenarios, Swiss banks seem to do ok .. just admit you have had the adventure and balls totally beaten out of you by the EU/PC grinder.. like a slave afraid to leave the plantation: oooooow the master won't provide me with a proper road map of whats around all those scary corners ... so I'm staying put and gonna pick cotton for another 40 years. Vote leave !!

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I am not the one in fear Blue...I voted with my feet almost 15 years ago and am unlikely to be told to go back to the UK if Brexit wins the day. I have hedged my bets a little though by moving my savings into calmer water.

You need to think a little more rationally and a little less emotionally if you are to understand the reasons for staying in the EU.

Just like buying a house is all about location, location, and location....staying in the EU is all about trade, trade, and trade.

^ The problem is that they are bundling trade with a political union, so its not all trade trade trade is it?

As you brought Thatcher up I did a quick google.

Not that i am a fan of thatcher, quite the contrary, it looks like she would have backed brexit. and she was all about trade.

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Sir Bill Cash MP has revealed the private correspondence he had with the former Prime Minister, in which she describes the EU project as "contrary to British interests and damaging to our Parliamentary democracy".
He says it is "inconceivable" Lady Thatcher would have supported David Cameron's current deal and that she gave him the letter to make public if there was ever any doubt over her views on the European Union.

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A private letter written by Margaret Thatcher reveals she would have campaigned for Brexit, claims Eurosceptic MP - Telegraph

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Originally Posted by Troy

Nationalism was on its deathbed after WWII, finally died in 1975 and does not need resurrection.

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if you are into globalism and internationalism why would you want UK tied up in a little local group ?

Thatcher backing the brexit campaign is a tad contentious. She realised the dilemma of dismantling the NHS, to cope with being in the EU, versus public opinion. Perhaps if people had more faith in her the UK would be more suited to being within the EU.

If the UK bexit campaign had the same strength of leadership, together with a set of goals to aim for, I may be pursuaded ... but I see a rudderless ship, going nowhere.

OUT.

Then election to stop Boris and Gove who will sell of the NHS, the Schools, and sign up to TTIP in about a week.

Then the Hague for cameron for Libya.

There. I have spoken. The man who achieved 8 votes for best person on TD. So there.

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Originally Posted by longway

^ Really? I have my doubts.

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Based on what? You're wrong, as you are about most things, about Thatcher and Turkey. Why, ffs, do you not, instead of "having your doubts" and coming across as an ignorant tit, take the 5 seconds or so to check the facts and actually learn something? There's a first time for everything.

Another poll:)

Obama warning on the risks of Brexit 'failed' to boost the campaign to keep Britain in the EU.

he Leave campaign has narrowly edged ahead of its Remain rivals, according to the latest European Union referendum poll.

The survey, carried out by YouGov for The Times on Monday and Tuesday, puts Out on 51 per cent and In on 49 per cent, when non-voters and unsure voters are removed.

The warning from US President Barack Obama on the risks of Brexit has "failed" to boost the campaign to keep Britain in the EU, says The Times.

Other recent measures by the Remain camp include the publication by George Osborne of his Treasury analysis on long-term costs of leaving the EU and the first big pro-EU speech by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, says the newspaper. "All, it seems, have failed to have an impact."

Meanwhile, the proportion of "don't knows" dropped three points to 13 per cent since a similar survey two weeks ago, while four per cent said they would not be voting, a drop of one point. With those figures included, Out was on 42 per cent and In was on 41 per cent.

Just one in five voters believe the UK will vote to leave the European Union in June, according to the latest referendum poll.

The survey, carried out by ORB for the Daily Telegraph, found that 57 per cent of voters expect the Remain camp to win, 21 per cent believe the Leave camp will triumph and 22 per cent are unsure.

"Expectations stay overwhelmingly in favour of an In vote come June," says political strategist Sir Lynton Crosby, in an analysis for the paper.

However, he warns that this "vast gap" means the Remain campaign is at risk of voter complacency.

"Many of their supporters will expect to win the referendum and thus fail to recognise the significance of their own vote," he says.

Meanwhile, bookmakers have "drastically" shortened the betting odds for a Remain vote.:UK:

EU referendum poll: Support for Brexit edges ahead of Remain | The Week UK

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Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

Obama warning on the risks of Brexit 'failed' to boost the campaign to keep Britain in the EU.

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His dad was a marxist pornographer. His mum was a porno slut. his grandad was a FBI mission chief. His mentor is Brzezinski. His first job was with a CIA front company. How many fucks do I, or should anyone else give what this puppet says or thinks?

None. Nada. Not one single one. Not even half of one. Not even one the size or a protazoa eating the shit on the arse of my dog. None at all.

^ But will leaving the EU stop the chemtrails?

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Originally Posted by blue

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Originally Posted by Troy

Nationalism was on its deathbed after WWII, finally died in 1975 and does not need resurrection.

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if you are into globalism and internationalism why would you want UK tied up in a little local group ?

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So now the World's largest economy is a little local group.

I see why DrBob runs out of patience so quickly....

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

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Originally Posted by longway

^ Really? I have my doubts.

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Based on what? You're wrong, as you are about most things, about Thatcher and Turkey. Why, ffs, do you not, instead of "having your doubts" and coming across as an ignorant tit, take the 5 seconds or so to check the facts and actually learn something? There's a first time for everything.

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The reason i had my doubts was that i remember her being skeptical about the eu and about that i was right.

And secondly drknob go fuck yourself.

And thirdly you pretentious bell end, its irrelevant to the consideration of whether we should stay or go.

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Originally Posted by Troy

Thatcher backing the brexit campaign is a tad contentious. She realised the dilemma of dismantling the NHS, to cope with being in the EU, versus public opinion. Perhaps if people had more faith in her the UK would be more suited to being within the EU.

If the UK bexit campaign had the same strength of leadership, together with a set of goals to aim for, I may be pursuaded ... but I see a rudderless ship, going nowhere.

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Unfortuntely we dont have the luxury of a variety of options. If the eu was solely about trade, then very few would be voting for brexit, but remaining in the eu means far more than that.

Sturgeon: Independence poll 'highly likely' if UK leaves EU - BBC News

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There would "almost certainly" be a second independence referendum if the UK votes to leave the EU and Scotland does not, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

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So how is she voting then ?
So will this mean millions of Scottish nationalists voting leave ?
NO those Scots are even more chickenshit scared than the English Sheeple, they just love talking about independence, they don't actually want it.

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Ms Sturgeon said that she would be "campaigning very hard" for a Remain vote in Scotland

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Brexit at 42%, Remain at 41% once 'don't knows' and 'wont vote' numbers are taken out of the calculations.

EU referendum poll: Support for Brexit edges ahead of Remain | The Week UK

Perhaps you would like to expand on that a little longway. What else does it entail that worries you so much? Freedom of movement for the job market? Combined resources and responsibilities to tackle problems, protection of workers and consumers?

I will be voting to leave the EEU because I do not like being ruled by French, Germans, etc. Those who like to be ruled by the French and the Germans should bugger off to France or Germany.

I would rather be dead than be ruled by the Turks.

No offence intended but I am British and Welsh and want to stay that way. Those who seek to stay in the EEU are cowards and I am obliged to say "bollocks" to them.

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Originally Posted by Troy

Perhaps you would like to expand on that a little longway. What else does it entail that worries you so much? Freedom of movement for the job market? Combined resources and responsibilities to tackle problems, protection of workers and consumers?

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I refer you to Post 307, and its no secret that the ultimate goal of the eu is a federal style superstate. Ultimately its about democracy; Westminster politics is remote enough, but a European parliament means we, as UK citizens, lose our power, and we have precious little as is.

The economic case for staying in is exaggerated hugely on top of that.

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Can you read?

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Anything in particular, or just your posts?

The fourteen British Overseas Territories (BOT) are territories under the jurisdiction and sovereignty of the United Kingdom.

No mention of BOT's being able to vote.

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Originally Posted by Troy

Combined resources and responsibilities to tackle problems, protection of workers and consumers?

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Are you suggesting that a locally elected government is less available for criticism or more flexible than the EU? I suspect many things are labelled as "imposed" by the EU. If that responsibility was held by the locally elected MPs, that excuse no longer exists and hence, some legislation may not be possible to pass into law.

Democracy is legislation, with, the will of the people. Not legislation by an unelected body, accepted freely or with reservations by "here today gone tomorrow" politicians and imposed on the unwilling citizens.

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Originally Posted by can123

I will be voting to leave the EEU

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Ah, a typical informed voter. Since when has Britain been part of the Eurasian Economic Union? This is going to be a big surprise for Belarus and Kazakhstan.

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

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Originally Posted by can123

I will be voting to leave the EEU

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Ah, a typical informed voter. Since when has Britain been part of the Eurasian Economic Union? This is going to be a big surprise for Belarus and Kazakhstan.

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Can123 admits he made a mistake but Doctor Bob knew that and is just being an awkward twat. Please shut up for five minutes and stop ranting. It's no wonder I made a mistake because you make enough noise to give an aspirin a headache.

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Originally Posted by can123

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

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Originally Posted by can123

I will be voting to leave the EEU

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Ah, a typical informed voter. Since when has Britain been part of the Eurasian Economic Union? This is going to be a big surprise for Belarus and Kazakhstan.

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Can123 admits he made a mistake but Doctor Bob knew that and is just being an awkward twat. Please shut up for five minutes and stop ranting. It's no wonder I made a mistake because you make enough noise to give an aspirin a headache.

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Heh, typical whinging pom, it's always somebody else's fault, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Heh, typical whinging pom, it's always somebody else's fault, isn't it? DrB0b is online now Add to DrB0b's Reputation Report Post

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Are you an Aborogine ? Do you go walkabout ?

Wait till the Union or whatever it's called these days affects you Dr Bob

For example it wont be so funny when they ban street horse riding, and you and your mates have to go to the Paki shop by foot.

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Originally Posted by Troy

You need to think a little more rationally and a little less emotionally if you are to understand the reasons for staying in the EU. Just like buying a house is all about location, location, and location....staying in the EU is all about trade, trade, and trade.

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if its all about trade why did they change its name from the Common Market ?
only thing the EU leaders want to trade is poor people
that's why they keep expanding it
next up another 88 million ... How long before Britain loses its own border ? that's part of the EU plan

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Albania is on course to join the European Union — alongside four other countries, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey. The already unwieldy group of 28 is due to become a throng of 33.

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Frank Field

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The Labour MP Frank Field spelled out the problem with great clarity in a speech on Tuesday, when he said: ‘Our open-door policy, which began under Tony Blair, has pushed down wages at the bottom of the labour market.
‘It has increased the queues for health services and even more so for homes. And it prevents ever more parents from gaining a school of their choice for their children.’
Frank has devoted his life to the Labour movement. As a welfare minister, and now as Chair of the Commons Work and Pensions Committee, his first concern has been helping the poorest in our society.
I know that he is a committed Christian who gives freely of his own time and money to help individuals in distress. He is in politics for all the right reasons.

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EU expansion will open our borders to 88m from Europe?s poorest countries, Gove warns | Daily Mail Online

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When Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey join the EU, another 88 million people will soon be eligible for NHS care and school places for their children. And what will even more immigration from the EU mean for access to housing across the UK? How many more homes will we need?

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Originally Posted by can123

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Heh, typical whinging pom, it's always somebody else's fault, isn't it? DrB0b is online now Add to DrB0b's Reputation Report Post

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Are you an Aborogine ? Do you go walkabout ?

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An Aborogine? Is that a native of the EEU?

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

An Aborogine? Is that a native of the EEU?

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It's an original aborigine who lives in a tree :) My little mini computer is dying on me. The battery is dead, I have to bang really hard to type the letter "e".

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/05/78.jpg

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Originally Posted by OhOh

Democracy is legislation, with, the will of the people. Not legislation by an unelected body, accepted freely or with reservations by "here today gone tomorrow" politicians and imposed on the unwilling citizens.

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Don't agree - sorry mate. Democracy is legislation thought up and enacted by a group of people supposedly representing the views of the largest minority of voters. We really need to drop the concept of DEMOCRACY because it never works.

The question over the EU is very simple. Are the individuals who signed the UK into the EU, at all and various stages, guilty of treason or high treason? The answer is categorically yes. I have said this before, and no doubt will say this again. The UK is a constitutional monarchy. We are not a democracy. We have a constitution and a bill of rights, and the monarch is appointed to the position as Crown to ensure that no laws or statutes are enacted that contravene or impede upon the inalienable rights vested to the people of the UK by the constitution and bill of rights.

In signing up to the EU, at all stages, not least because even as far back as Winston Churchill days in No 10 in the early 1950's he knew that the plan was to create a united states of Europe, emulating the USA model, which by the way he was passionately in favour of (laughable when you see the BRexit Campaigners using his image in their material). From the very off, all politicians and governments knew this was about signing away independence, and allowing laws into effect in the nation that might or might not impact the constitution and bill of rights. The EU Bill of Human Rights is a very good case in point. As Brits, we do not need this. We also do not need any imaged bill of rights that the camerons or what have yo think they would like to give us. We have inalienable rights - not rights GIVEN to us at the whim of politicians whether in westminster of brussels. What they give, they can take away. The point is it is not theirs to give in the first place, so they can not take it. As a reminder, any trial that has gone so far that the magna carta or the bill of rights have been tested, those two ALWAYS prevail.

The queen has accepted mediatisation, is in abuse of office, and a new monarch needs to be appointed and told again what their JOB is. Any politician who has negotiated, agreed to or signed any treaty with the EU is basically a traitor, and could be charged with treason. If you take it to a logical extent, the UK is not actually in the EU at all because none of the people who signed the various treaties actually have the authority to do so.

Chris Story's idea is the simplest though. Ask for the completed audited account from them - all of them. As they can not provide these, that makes them a criminal organisation under EU law. Then, as EU Laws says you are not allowed to send funds to criminal or unlawful more aptly, organisations, stop paying them. Then under EU law you can get back all the money they have received under false pretenses. All using EU law against the EU.

The other route you can use is documenting the above information, putting it into a letter to any MP who thinks they are in favour of the EU remain campaign, and asking that once they know the above, can they explain to you why they should not be held for abuse of office if they engage with a criminal organisation and in treasonous activity. Even supporting the Remain campaign is aiding and abetting individuals in the course of a crime.

So there it is. This can also be used for fighting TTIP - as all aspects of that is highly treasonous. Its about bloody time we help this corrupt party politicing whip responding grubby career politicians to account, sling them on abuse of office charges and put the fuckers in prison.

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Originally Posted by blue

if its all about trade why did they change its name from the Common Market ?

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See above - it was never about trade, it was the old standard frog in a boiling pot routine. Slowly slowly, little by little, but the end result was planned a long time ago. Having been away from Europe for 8 years, then returning, it is stunning the changes and the grasp the EU has on the UK and other countries now. Staggering. People who have lived here though do not see the changes due to the incremental way that they have been introduced.

Whole vote seems pointless.

The vast majority of our issues with the EU come down to the refusal of our civil servants and ministers to use the wriggle room all these laws deliberately have to allow countries to customise (read undermine) the laws for local political expediency.

wether we stay in or leave we will still have this civil service and ministerial culture. as with thailand at a government and business level on exit we would have to comply with quite a lot of EU trade regulations if we wish to trade with the EU and we would have the same civil service culture implementing this.

leave or stay we will have the same problems, because the root cause is our own civil servants and the politicians that control them.

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Originally Posted by pseudolus

The question over the EU is very simple. Are the individuals who signed the UK into the EU, at all and various stages, guilty of treason or high treason? The answer is categorically yes

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Would that include the 17 million British voters who voted "yes" in the 1975 referendum?

Amazing how the parties have changed since 75,
I guess the Jew hating , racist Labour party just want to stay connected to the Muslim masses in Europe,

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In 1975, Labour MPs thought the EEC was a bosses’ union, a capitalist conspiracy, while the Tories were overwhelmingly in favour of a common market. 41 years on and the parliamentary parties have almost entirely swapped positions…

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How the Parties Have Changed Since 1975 | Euro Guido




I guess the 1975 voters met well; but till gave us 1,000,000 chavs from East Europe- poofs who cannot even handle alcohol, always seeing ambulances ferrying them to hospital.

my thoughts on the EU
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Originally Posted by pseudolus

Don't agree - sorry mate

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No problem, yours is a much better proposition.

Airstrip One is important in the war against Eurasia. Double chocolate for you today.



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A paid for add from your friendly:

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/05/108.jpg

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Originally Posted by hazz

leave or stay we will have the same problems, because the root cause is our own civil servants and the politicians that control them.

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Agree in part. The upper echelons of the civil service is where the real graft and corruption is hidden. There should be a mandatory list of "declared interests" for all civil servants.

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Originally Posted by DrB0b

Would that include the 17 million British voters who voted "yes" in the 1975 referendum?

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No - because people were voting on what they thought was a "trade deal" when in reality, the people posing the question knew is was about creating a United States of Europe. The 17m Yes voters can not be held responsible any more than any husband can be held responsible for, on being asked by his wife "which colour dress should I wear, Blue or Red", and responding to that with a selection to meet her wrath because what she was really asking was "Are you fucking that girl from accounts?".