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treacherous scum
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treacherous scum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
Hey they might be sending forms out in Holland soon , and what a huge surprise:) EU FALLING APART: Now HOLLAND wants its own Brexit-style referendum | World | News | Daily ExpressQuote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
If you are not willing or able to walk away you cannot succeed in getting a good deal. You can wish all you want, but tactically you have thrown away alot of our negotiating power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy
We've got a good deal. All those big numbers being thrown around boil down to £2 a month each for the privilege of living, working, learning, and travelling anywhere in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by longwayQuote:
Originally Posted by piwanoiHey they might be sending forms out in Holland soon , and what a huge surprise:) EU FALLING APART: Now HOLLAND wants its own Brexit-style referendum | World | News | Daily ExpressQuote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
If you are not willing or able to walk away you cannot succeed in getting a good deal. You can wish all you want, but tactically you have thrown away alot of our negotiating power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy
yeah more paying £xxxxxxx a week to have Polish chavs and other 2nd world scum pollute our lovely streets.
The last of the real labour MPs telling it like it is :
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/...t#.V1sH1OQYNVZQuote:
DENNIS SKINNER has broken his silence over the EU referendum and revealed that he will vote to Leave
The veteran Labour MP was among the handful of MPs on either side of the debate who had not publicly declared how they will vote on June 23.
But the “Beast of Bolsover” has voted against every European treaty being incorporated into British law since he entered Parliament in 1970.
Speaking to the Morning Star yesterday, he confirmed he was backing a break with Brussels because he did not believe progressive reform of the EU could be achieved.
He said: “My opposition from the very beginning has been on the lines that fighting capitalism state-by-state is hard enough. It’s even harder when you’re fighting it on the basis of eight states, 10 states and now 28.
“In the old days they could argue you might get a socialist government in Germany, but there’s not been one for donkeys’ years.
“At one time there was Italy, the Benelux countries, France and Germany, Portugal, Spain and us.
“Now there’s just one in France and it’s hanging on by the skin of its teeth.”
Mr Skinner said the prospect of the NHS being subject to the rules of the pro-privatisation TTIP trade deal between the EU and US was also a “significant” factor in his decision to vote Leave.
Labour warned this week that workers’ rights, such as four weeks paid holiday, maternity and paternity leave, equal pay and health and safety laws, could be at risk if Britain leaves the EU.
But Mr Skinner pointed out many of those rights are enshrined in British law and believes the Tories “couldn’t shift them.”
He said: “What [the EU] should be doing, if it wanted to convince people like me, is have a directive to get rid of zero-hours contracts across the whole of the EU. That’s what I’d be looking for.”
Mr Skinner insisted that his wish to leave the EU was not “based upon waving a flag or immigration.”
Instead, he said, the country needs to learn from the miners if it wants to achieve community cohesion.
“When I left school and went to work in the pits I was working with displaced persons from Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania and so on,” he told the Star.
“The reason why that didn’t create a great many problems for the miners was that we insisted that they could not undermine our wages, they would be paid the same as us whatever job they did.
“And what’s more they had to join the appropriate union. That’s why there was harmony in the pits and that’s what should happen today.”
Although Mr Skinner will be voting differently to Jeremy Corbyn, he backed the party leader’s refusal to share a platform with political opponents during the campaign.
“I won’t join these Tory and Ukip campaigns, I don’t believe in helping to bolster their prestige,” he said.
“I told Tony Benn when he was surrounded by Union Jacks in Trafalgar Square that he shouldn’t be on that bloody platform.
“So I don’t play any part with them.”
Despite that, his intervention was welcomed by Labour MP Gisela Stuart, who leads the cross-party Leave campaign.
She said: “Dennis is one of the most respected figures in the Labour Party and his decision to vote to Leave will send a signal to many thousands of hard-working Labour supporters that traditional Labour values and workers’ rights are best protected if we leave the EU and take back control.”
And people from other eu countries get paid by us for the privilege of being able to live work travel learn anywhere in the UK, and it is difficult if not impossible to control who and the numbers of those people that come. And as English is the international language it makes it far easier for Europeans to work in the UK than vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bWe've got a good deal. All those big numbers being thrown around boil down to £2 a month each for the privilege of living, working, learning, and travelling anywhere in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by longwayQuote:
Originally Posted by piwanoiHey they might be sending forms out in Holland soon , and what a huge surprise:) EU FALLING APART: Now HOLLAND wants its own Brexit-style referendum | World | News | Daily ExpressQuote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
If you are not willing or able to walk away you cannot succeed in getting a good deal. You can wish all you want, but tactically you have thrown away alot of our negotiating power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy
Worth a watch when France have beat Romania..
EU referendum: Nigel Farage interviewed by BBC's Andrew Neil - BBC News
Farage? I've heard the name. Isn't he some has-been from a couple of years ago? Wasn't he a competitor on Big Brother or was it Naked & Afraid?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chittychangchang
Well, yes. That's the way it works. You're not special and that's what's really upsets the exiteers, they just can't deal with others having the same rights as them. There's a reason why the phrase "little englander" is an insult and this idiotic belief that you should be in some way entitled to more rights than anybody else is why so many other European countries are looking forward so much to crushing BrItain if it leaves the EU. The stupid dreams of the remnants of the tufty club have left Britain in a position where either the economy will be destroyed, in the case of exit, or the next generation will spend its life with its lips firmly clamped around French and German cock. Well done chaps, brilliant move. Firmly in the great tradition of Eden.Quote:
Originally Posted by longway
The fact that you think it's the EU that's shafted you is a resounding triumph for a long term British government policy of reducing education and health funding.
I believe he was on "Britains got Talent", didn't realise you was a fan of the program Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bFarage? I've heard the name. Isn't he some has-been from a couple of years ago? Wasn't he a competitor on Big Brother or was it Naked & Afraid?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chittychangchang
Not :) I'm an Ed Stafford man myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChittychangchangI believe he was on "Britains got Talent", didn't realise you was a fan of the program Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bFarage? I've heard the name. Isn't he some has-been from a couple of years ago? Wasn't he a competitor on Big Brother or was it Naked & Afraid?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chittychangchang
Fair play to you, that's a long way to tread water with all those piranhas:)Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bNot :) I'm an Ed Stafford man myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChittychangchangI believe he was on "Britains got Talent", didn't realise you was a fan of the program Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bFarage? I've heard the name. Isn't he some has-been from a couple of years ago? Wasn't he a competitor on Big Brother or was it Naked & Afraid?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chittychangchang
Throwing a temper tantrum threatening to take your toys and leave may have worked for you in the sandbox when young but is not a mature way of negotiating.Quote:
Originally Posted by longway
Europe laughs at you.
Yes yes yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
So fokking well said.
what are you a timid, xenophobic, little europeaner ?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
Need someone to hold your hand when you venture out into the global community?
Got an idiotic belief that you should be in some way entitled to more rights than anybody else, and want to join a little protectionist union so you can gang up and bully other countries ?
Other non European countries are looking forward so much to crushing Britain if we Don't leaves the EU, as there will no need to fear a resurgent UK, if we are flooded with more lower race immigrant trash, and hamstrung with silly rules , and American Ttip trade deal.
one good thing
after the vote stay, wins , us brave brexiters can seize the moral high ground and lord it over the sheep who voted for the farmer, when the federal EU turns real fucking nasty.
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'Remarkable' 10-Point Lead For Brexit In Shock New Poll
Could it really be true? I hope so. A 10 point lead for brexit!
It's a perfectly reasonable point, the immigration pattern is not a good deal for us, shrieking at me incoherently about it just didn't cut the mustard.Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
Secondly the treasury's own figures show that the impact of brexit by 2030 is that the UK economy will grow 20% rather than 27%, it's a dent, but hardly anything to become hysterical about.
The UK imports more from the other EU countries than it exports, so when you get EU politicians threatening trade repercussions in the event of Brexit, it would hurt them far more than it would the UK.
^ If they really want to crush us, why do the remain lot think that its a good thing to try and integrate further in the EU?
They fear Europe so much they think we have to surrender ourselves to them and hope for their mercy.
The level of fear and hysteria in the remain lot is bizarre.
Clouding the issue with facts again I see ,this must cease forthwith as certain members may resort to checking your spelling and punctuation :rofl: but of course PAG you are spot on ,as the left's bible "The Guardian " readily indicates https://www.theguardian.com/business...erendum-brexitQuote:
Originally Posted by PAG
For the benefit of those for whom statistics are important, here are the UK Government's own figures, dated 9th June 2016:Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoiClouding the issue with facts again I see ,this must cease forthwith as certain members may resort to checking your spelling and punctuation :rofl: but of course PAG you are spot on ,as the left's bible "The Guardian " readily indicates https://www.theguardian.com/business...erendum-brexitQuote:
Originally Posted by PAG
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statisti...n-EU_Data.aspx
Thanks PAG , plenty of info out there saying the same as your link , that trade wise the EU needs us far more than we need them .
What would this guy know? :rolleyes:Sir James Dyson: 'So if we leave the EU no one will trade with us? Cobblers...'
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
The Country of which you are so proud:Quote:
Originally Posted by longway
Police in Marseille have deployed tear gas for a second evening to disperse England fans gathered ahead of the Euro 2016 football championships.Quote:
Euro 2016: England fans in fresh clashes with police
Officers in riot gear clashed with fans who threw bottles at police in the streets of the Old Port district.
BBC 5 live sports presenter George Riley said a group of England fans had appeared to be goading either the police or locals in the area.
France won the opening match in the tournament beating Romania 2-1.
The fresh clashes in Marseille began outside a pub in the same area that had been affected by trouble on Thursday and continued well into the night.
One England fan and one local man were arrested in the early hours of Friday after police had moved in with tear gas.
George Riley said the group he had seen gathering on Friday evening appeared "quite menacing", which prompted the 5 live team to leave.
....
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Euro 2016: England fans in fresh clashes with police - BBC News
A very 'special' people to be proud of eh?
A couple of points, I do not know what went on in France, but I remember going to a Euro match in Belgium a few years back where there was no trouble at all until the Belgium police turned up and started causing trouble which simply hadn't been there before...
Second, on the BBC website today, they mentioned a poll where Brexit is 10 points up, as the latest figures.
Now, I'm pretty sure the Brexit numbers will rise a bit more still as people see through the fear-mongering being churned out by the Stay campaign, but I'm also pretty sure that the EU and government will NOT let Britain leave the EU - just wondering what scam they plan on using?
Lastly, this will be a deck of cards, realities such as youth unemployment over 50% in Spain (yet endless EU and non-EU immigrants coming to take more jobs...) will be the next... & the Fourth Reich dream will be dead within five years...
The government isn't legally bound to accept the referendum result. They could ignore an exit vote or use it to lever a better deal for the UK. I think this will happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
Suicide for the government though - could also see Corbyn being kicked out as Labour leader, a wet dream for Farage. We really do need (& I'm not saying Farage is it) a new ideology at the forefront of the Labour party; Corbyn doesn't look like he's it; very detached from the people on this issue (as are the trade union leadership).Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
looks like UK politics is as ineffective and fucked as in France,
maybe the new reality of Europe,
Aren't all political leaders?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
Good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
^ true.
For the first time in 7 years, I agree with you completely... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
not really, they have 5 more years to go, everyone will forget about it by thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
I have a strong suspicion this is all show and they have no intention to follow through the referendum results
UK Voters oWneD again !!!
Not sure about that, seems to me the very policies being used in the EU are there to inspire a far right up rising by the masses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
No one cares much about immigration, loss of sovereignty, when there is full employment, a good life lead by most.
When people are driven into poverty, high youth unemployment, loss of hope for a better future, that's when hard left/right arises, and there really is no great difference between national, European socialism and world socialism/communism.
Looking from outside in, it would appear the governments of Europe have been on a path to bring about radical change, immigration, austerity, unemployment, welfare cuts, knowing full well that this would result in a massive back lash against the system.
I also note a meeting of the main right wing European parties is happening just after the vote, when the house of cards falls, it can only be rebuilt from bottom up.
People are sheep and will follow, after all there seems little to lose and no one is giving answers, from the mainstream parties, it's just more of the same.
Don't think Trumps rise is an isolated one off, the people of the west are fed up, they will turn to leaders that say they will do something, not sit and talk.
I tend to agree with Betty as far as Ignoring or using it as a lever to get a better deal (although I would not put it past them to try ) the whole of Europe is waiting for the result with baited breath, and if its out for the UK then the pack of cards that has been mentioned may well start to topple .Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
The remain posters on here are an odd bunch. They try to dress up their wish to remain as having some kind of rational common sense basis, but it is clear it is just fear. They are contradictory hysterical and incoherent, and I suspect a fair amount of incontinence as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy
How is any of this relevant?
If Corbyn gets behind the leave campaign and sticks with his principles then he has a good chance of winning the respect of the people and a good chance at a general election.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
Sadly he appears to be hiding.
The EU has more to lose than the U.K, the whole experiment will crumble as the USSR did if Brexit wins.
William Astor: Why voting Leave won't mean we leave the EU | Coffee HouseQuote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
Gloom and doom blog, but its a fair point that even if we vote to leave, we will remain (trapped). Only goes to show that going down the EU road is a one way path with no getting off. Its our last chance, and its very possible, even likely, it wont result in us leaving the EU and even now the other potential ramifications are quite large.
Quote:
Perhaps most important of all, if the Brexiteers win, an exit from the EU is actually not deliverable. The EU referendum is merely advisory; it has no legal standing to force an exit. Parliament is still sovereign. We will need an Act of Parliament to revoke the European Communities Act 1972, by which Britain joined the EEC or Common Market, or perhaps a paving bill enabling the Government to start the Leave negotiations. But whatever, a vote will be required.
The Government, whether still led by David Cameron or not, would probably not win the vote in the House of Commons. Labour could claim the referendum was too close and did not include a majority to leave in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Therefore the Labour Party, the SNP and the few Lib Dems would claim to have the mandate to vote against the bill.
It would then only take a few fiercely europhile Tories to consult their constituents and their consciences, and decide that after all their campaigning to stay in the EU they cannot vote to leave either. Can one imagine Ken Clarke voting to leave even on a three-line whip?
Reports this week suggested pro-EU MPs are already plotting to keep Britain in the EU whatever the result: on the basis that Vote Leave has not spelt out an alternative deal for Britain’s access to the single market, they will claim there is no mandate for change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
I still don't know. The sheer economic, mathematical, legal, historical and political ignorance of the outers repulses me, I dislike both liars and fools, but I'm trying not to let my dislike of those people affect my decision in one of the most important votes of the last 50 years. By instinct I'm a Europhile and I strongly believe that the EU could and should be one of the most positive organisations for peace, security, and prosperity in European history Some here call it the 4th Reich, weasel words as they know full well that to most non-Germans the word Reich only conjures up images of Swastikas, but if I must use their words then I look to the First Reich, the Holy Roman Empire, and see nothing wrong with that.
But clearly something has gone horribly wrong, Europe has lost, or almost lost, its cultural and historical identity (shown in a small way on this forum by the utter ignorance of many posters when commenting on the current situation) but I do not believe that that has anything to do with the EU, I believe that the weakness of Europe today is because we are now on the second generation of mollycoddled, selfish, and ill-educated buffoons (on all political sides and in all the nations of Christendom) who react to political and cultural crises in the same way that a child reacts to having its sweeties taken away.
I fear that that I'm reflecting the rantings of Hegel, the 19th Century curse of the 20th Century, but I do believe that we have destroyed our foundations through an educational and child-rearing system that values selfishness, hypocrisy, lies and ignorance above all else, a system in which nobody should ever be offended and where the worst, no matter how repulsive, should be treated in exactly the same way as the best. Where we have replaced culture with property, literature with tweets, love with pornography, philosophy with pictures of cats. We now have to deal with the consequences.
However, unlike Hegel and those of his modern followers (even though they're probably unaware that they're his followers) who have created the current anti-European weltanschauung I don't believe that we can fix this problem through exclusion, hatred, and war. We (and it is OUR fault) should never have let it get to the point where that could even be considered.
Unfortunately the last generation of genuine grown-ups in Europe died out over 20 years ago and we're now left with a population of squabbling, selfish idiot children, children mentally even though some are physically in their 80s and 90s, who almost entirely lack the intellectual and educational apparatus to make a mature and informed decision about anything.
Bread and circuses.
Excuse my verbosity and confusion, I'm drunk and worried.
How will I vote? With trepidation and with little hope for the future.
so having said that , what do you make of the fact it's said, its the youngsters who want in and the old folk who want out? maybe the still slightly cultured older folk know something?
Half the problem today is the housing shortage and stress and materialism that causes .
The government uses Immigrants to drive that, and uses 'racism' to stop many sensible person questioning the overcrowding .
If anyone is uncomfortable with the federalist Europe aspect , a real concern , they should vote out,
That the grown-up approach not voting to stay in and put a perceived frivolous material loss of things ahead of freedom.
No point in wanting so desperately to be part of a group of friends that you end up joining a thug gang
^^ get a grip you drunken old fool, if you weren't so busy posturing and wallowing in your inflated sense of self importance, you could probably find enough information to make a reasonably well informed decision.
James Dyson on this issue and more. Does being in the EU really help us?Quote:
Originally Posted by PAG
Prominent British Entrepreneur James Dyson Backs Exit From EU
Quote:
He dismissed warnings about the possible impact of a Brexit on trade, saying:
“When the Remain campaign tells us no one will trade with us if we leave the EU, sorry, it’s absolute cobblers. Our trade imbalance with Europe is running at nine billion a month and rising. If this trend continues, that is £100bn a year.
“If, as David Cameron suggested, they imposed a tariff of 10 per cent on us, we will do the same in return. We buy more from Europe than they buy from us, so we would be the net beneficiary and based on these numbers it would bring £10bn into the UK annually. Added to our net EU contribution, it would make us around £18.5bn better off each year if we left the EU.”
He added that “the EU would be committing commercial suicide to impose a tariff because we import £100bn [of goods] and we only send £10bn there.”
Mr. Dyson also referred to the fact that the European market is not as significant as some make out. Explaining that his business exports far more to the rest of he world (81 per cent) than Europe (19 per cent), he said: “We’re very pleased with the European market – we’re number one in Germany and France – but it’s small and the real growing and exciting markets are outside Europe.”
In a boost for calls for an Australian points-based system of immigration to replace the EU’s free movement of people, Mr. Dyson spoke of how the rules actively prevent him from hiring the skilled engineers his business needs:
“We’re not allowed to employ them, unless they’re from the EU. At the moment, if we want to hire a foreign engineer, it takes four and a half months to go through the Home Office procedure. It’s crazy…
“Sixty per cent of engineering undergraduates at British universities are from outside the EU, and 90 per cent of people doing research in science and engineering at British universities are from outside the EU. And we chuck them out!”
Mr. Dyson bemoaned the fact those researchers then take back that valuable technology to China or Singapore and use it against British companies.
Britain would gain more from leaving the EU than it would lose, billionaire entrepreneur Sir James Dyson has said.
The inventor said the idea that Britain could not trade successfully outside the EU was "absolute cobblers".
He said the single market did not work because exporters had to adapt products like his to cater for different languages and different types of plugs.
Britain Stronger in Europe said: "James Dyson wanted the UK to join the euro. He was wrong then and he is wrong now."
Speaking to the Daily Telegraph, Sir James, who is best known for designing a bagless vacuum cleaner, said the UK "will create more wealth and more jobs by being outside the EU than we will within it".
"When the Remain campaign tells us no-one will trade with us if we leave the EU, sorry, it's absolute cobblers. Our trade imbalance with Europe is running at £9bn a month and rising. If this trend continues, that is £100bn a year."
Sir James argued that if, after a vote to leave, the EU imposed a 10% tariff on UK goods, Britain would do the same on imported EU goods. He said that because Britain imported far more from the EU than it exported there, it would bring in an extra £10bn a year for the UK.
EU referendum: Sir James Dyson says Britain better off out - BBC News
So what? Does making high speed hoovers now mean you speak for the masses?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chittychangchang
Bill Johnson, a fictional resident of Welwyn Garden City, has said Dyson is a [at][at][at][at], as does Sanjay Patel, an equally fictional resident of Gateshead. But Bill and Sanjay are not billionaires, does that mean their opinions don't count. Of course it does, yet they still have votes.
Why do you think a cut 'n' paste from some talking head billionaire means anything?
Do you have your own opinion and are you capable of expressing it or do you prefer to lie prone and let some rich guy speak for you?
Expressing your opinion, can you do it?