Thread: 9/11 was an inside job

Originally Posted by pseudolus

If some of it is lies, then it is not truthful.

Not very good at understanding the gray in politics are you? There is no such thing in politics, it doesn't exist, only shades of gray.

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

Not very good at understanding the gray in politics are you?

So you think that just because someone is in "politics" they therefore are allowed to pass falsehoods off as truth? You accept that?

The truth is the truth. There is no grey. The only people who want to make you believe this are those passing off lies as truth.

Your statement is of someone so brainwashed. so naive. so sucked in by the whole political BS propaganda machine.

Apparently you have just as much trouble reading posts here too it seems. I said nothing like that, I just said that's the state of "politics" and you can cry, scream and stomp about how unfair it is all you like. In the end you, me and anyone else are just insignificant pawns in an International game of big boys politics and init there is multiple shades of gray where the truth is concerned, there's yours, mine and 7 billion other humans on this planet who have their own shades.

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

I said nothing like that

Pseudo seems quite fond of mis-quoteing what people write.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Pseudo seems quite fond of mis-quoteing what people write.

No I don't. You do though - a lot, as and when it suits your version of events.

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

Apparently you have just as much trouble reading posts here too it seems.

No I don't. You are trying to mitigate what we are told is the truth as all part of a game. Fools like Pragmatic suck it up, run around with a blue ribbon on proclaiming the messaiah, talking about the truth, and yet I am simply pointing out that what we are told is the truth is not.

Do you agree that the truth is the truth, and if a part of something is not the truth, therefore it can not, by definition be true?

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

In the end you, me and anyone else are just insignificant pawns in an International game of big boys politics

This is true insomuch as we allow this to be true. By excusing politicians. By not holding them to account. By accepting and playing their games. By letting them off with the "aahhhhhh grey shades of politics" we are only perpetuating this situation.

The more people who start acknowledging that they are ALL sold out pieces of shit, the less people who will play their BS election games, and therefore a step closer we will get to a truer fairer world.

There's not much you and I can personally do. But if around the world you have 7 BILLION you and me's, all refusing to accept their bullshit, suddenly we will notice how much strength we have and how we can make the world better.

So all we can do is personally refuse to accept it and say as much. Maybe a few more people will start to agree, and not feel uncomfortable or even care when drones like Pragmatic come out of the wood work going 'ohhhh you stupid - you don't accept the mainstream... you are different.... booo fucking hooo". Slowly they are becoming the minority though....slowly, and one day they will disappear.

We have a new kind of truth. Pseudo-truth.......

There has likely never been a report on anything really big published anywhere without some degree of inaccuracy. There are simply too many things that can not be adequately explained in something so big. I've read parts of the 9/11 report and it does state again and again that certain things are simply not known with 100% certainty. The important thing however is that enough evidence was accumulated to establish what happened, who carried it out, and who planned and funded it.

There are those who don't believe any of it, but instead prefer to conjure up all kinds of sinister stuff involving the government and how Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld conspired to blow up half of NY so they could invade Iraq and "steal oil"

A report such as the 9/11 commission published can not be just labelled as "truth" or "lies". We could say that it may contain some inaccuracies or deficiencies...but that does not invalidate it. Such reports are always subject to update and revision in the course of time...

The Warren commission report was the same kind of thing. The Warren report was condemned and castigated left right an centre, but after half a century nobody has really proved conclusively that it's findings were wrong. There has been no end of theories and alternatives presented over they years, but in due course each one has been found to be flawed and eventually dismissed as more nonsense.

The thing that always puzzles me is how the tin hatters are so quick to dismiss any report or any statement made by any source except those from the fringe, and made by people who really don't have any investigative authority or access to any information other than what they feed to each other.

Crows are black and water is comprised of Hydrogen and Oxygen....Is this information to be trusted? It comes from "them" you know.......

Originally Posted by koman

We have a new kind of truth.

We do. Political truth. This is a form of propaganda made to get your emotional support for what ever the politician wants, and therefore to limit opposition.

Originally Posted by koman

There has likely never been a report on anything really big published anywhere without some degree of inaccuracy

Inaccuracy is fine. Passing inaccuracy off as Truth is not. Why would you think that it is fine and acceptable?

Originally Posted by koman

but instead prefer to conjure up all kinds of sinister stuff involving the government and how Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld conspired to blow up half of NY so they could invade Iraq and "steal oil"

I never said that. I looked at a report, and answered one of the drones responses saying that because 54% or whatever of the people say the official line was Mostly the Truth, I countered that something by the very definition can never be MOSTLY true. It is true, or it is not.

Originally Posted by koman

Warren commission

No one has ever proved that it was right either though.

Originally Posted by koman

The thing that always puzzles me is how the tin hatters are so quick to dismiss any report or any statement made by any source except those from the fringe, and made by people who really don't have any investigative authority or access to any information other than what they feed to each other.

The thing that puzzles me are those who run around using phrases like "tin hatters" in one post can excuse politicians for lying, saying it is OK, and then when they produce reports, expect them to be 100% trustworthy.

They are lying pieces of shit, bought up by the truck load by the elite, lobbyists, and MNCs, all of them only interested in sating their ego, and yet, you believe them.

Do you actually trust any senior politician from any party to tell the truth, no matter how it might impact their political ambitions? Do you?

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

I said nothing like that

Pseudo seems quite fond of mis-quoteing what people write.

That he does in deed but that's because it doesn't suit his spin and makes him squirm in his seat........ Or do something in his seat....

Originally Posted by pseudolus

talking about the truth, and yet I am simply pointing out that what we are told is the truth is not.

You are simply a fool if you EVER think you're going to get the "truth" out of ANY politician, the mere nature of the position denies that is ever going to happen as it is a necessary part of the job to avoid the truth in many instances. For one quick example they won't tell the truth about ANYTHING covert or other, and that's just one quick example, it pertains to all aspects of the governmental positions.

Besides who's truth do you want them tell? Yours? Theirs? Someone else's? Ever had a car accident? The truth always lies somewhere in the middle (I.E. the gray area) between you, the other party and even witnesses, it's never one or the other and it's beyond naive to think otherwise.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

This is true insomuch as we allow this to be true. By excusing politicians. By not holding them to account. By accepting and playing their games. By letting them off with the "aahhhhhh grey shades of politics" we are only perpetuating this situation.

Who is "we"? I don't do this, I have no control over this but I don't excuse or permit a thing, I'm merely explaining it you.. What am I to do about it personally? Begin summary executions? I do what I can by voting in the politicians I believe to be the most honest. I never believed Obama from day one but millions of new, naive voters of the "me" generation did and look at what that wrought? 8 years of misery and back steps almost to the dark ages.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

There's not much you and I can personally do. But if around the world you have 7 BILLION you and me's, all refusing to accept their bullshit, suddenly we will notice how much strength we have and how we can make the world better.

Many are already, it accounts for a lot of the current unrest in the world these days for one reason or another. Coups, and uprisings all over the place in case you hadn't been paying attention..

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

I do what I can by voting in the politicians I believe to be the most honest

Why? Why bother? Most most honest? You accept that they will lie a little. What do they lie about then? What is it OK for them to lie about?

Who gives you your choice of politicians to chose from? From the main parties around the world, these are selected for you by a very small group, who only select them based upon the persons likelihood to follow the party line when its comes to the governmental decisions. Party line set by party donations and the people making those donations. After all, they will never bite the hand that feeds them.

So what are you voting for? An independent or minority candidate? They can never have any power or any sway in the faux democracy we have around the world.

How about though if one election, NO ONE voted. No one.

They would have to listen then....

Originally Posted by koman

Crows are black

Originally Posted by koman

It comes from "them" you know.......

No it doesn't, even I can see with my own poor eyes that crows are black...

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

Many are already, it accounts for a lot of the current unrest in the world these days for one reason or another. Coups, and uprisings all over the place in case you hadn't been paying attention..

Oh dear. You are not paying attention.

Coups. Who is backing these? Arming the insurgents? This is the result of governments serving industry.

When the people actually do revolt the western world sides with their friendly government and watch whilst they are obliterated.

Its called Regime change. It has been part and parcel of US Interests and as such their foreign policy for a century.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Why? Why bother? Most most honest? You accept that they will lie a little. What do they lie about then? What is it OK for them to lie about?

Ok, can't argue with this logic anymore, it's going in a broad circle but getting nowhere, how about a solution instead? Is it the summary executions then?

Originally Posted by pseudolus

in one post can excuse politicians for lying, saying it is OK,

You keep saying this, who exactly is doing that? Rhetorical question because the answer is in your head but not really posted on this board.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Do you actually trust any senior politician from any party to tell the truth, no matter how it might impact their political ambitions? Do you?

Yes, as a matter of fact I have personally known several people who entered politics. One of them eventually became the Finance Minister of Canada. A man of character and integrity who worked for the good of the country for over 20 years. His office used to be just down the road from mine and I knew him both socially and professionally.

Referring to "all politicians" as " lying pieces of shit" , just goes to show what a dysfunctional paranoid clown you really are. Have YOU ever actually known one, or even met one?

In all walks of life there are good people, some not so good, and a few who are downright assholes. I've worked on political campaigns a few times and helped elect some really excellent people into public service. I've also been disgusted by the activities of some others in politics, but I don't allow the bad habit of a few to destroy my belief in the whole body politic.

It must be very distressing to go through life not being able to trust or believe in anything other than wild conspiracy theories and the nonsense spread by the lunatic fringe.

I'm glad I don't suffer from this kind of mental disorder, and that MY government does a pretty decent job overall, despite the occasional idiot that cheats on the expense account or something ridiculous and usually gets kicked out of the party.

Governments have to make very difficult choices on a wide variety of issues. People for the most part don't really have much of a clue what they want, and everybody wants something different, so no matter what the government does, a good part of the population is going to be pissed off about it.

The thing is; every government in the world (at least in the free world) is trying to manage a country, which is usually pretty divided internally. Complaining about the government is a universal pastime....and especially so for the losers and eternally disgruntled souls that inhabit every nation on earth. There are very good governments and there are very bad ones....and lot's more in between.

So, what's the Pseudo alternative to government......anarchy?

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

Is it the summary executions then?

death creates death, FB. Always. So no.

Stop pandering to politicians and see them for what they are. All you can personally do is refuse to believe them, and others will as well, and one day change will happen.

They have the army. They have the police. They have everything, and we only have our mind, and with that, we can make choices.

This is the dichotomy. We are powerless to do anything and yet we are the only people who can do something.

Does that mean we should not try?

The system we have is not working.

In the last century about 200,000,000 people died in or because of wars. Most of these because on one side or another, for right or wrong, a group of people with power decided to do something against the views of another group of people with power.

How many can you add to that list through things such as famine? drought? disease (human made, or profit put before getting people well)? We are artificially divided by religion, race, branding of political parties, forced into boxes of left and right, red or blue just to keep us fighting and to get support for one side of rich wankers getting their poor to kill another group of poor people who support another group of rich wankers.

I say no. If you say no, then there are two of use. If another 1,000,000 people say no together there are a million of us. We - the people of the world, need to say no. When we start doing this, and lets not forget in most countries of the world less than 50% of the people actually vote anyway, the people in the armies, police, they might just realise they are people as well, and not just slaves to their particular brand of rich power people.

Originally Posted by koman

Yes, as a matter of fact I have personally known several people who entered politics. One of them eventually became the Finance Minister of Canada. A man of character and integrity who worked for the good of the country for over 20 years. His office used to be just down the road from mine and I knew him both socially and professionally.

So you know 100% that he always voted for what would be best for the people of Canada rather than what would be best for his party? Their donors? You know this? 100% for a fact?

My contention would be that no one gets that high in a political party without following the party line.

Originally Posted by koman

MY government does a pretty decent job overall,

Indeed - Your government does because in Canada they largely focus internally, rather than externally.

However, for example, the government of Canada cutting short the Somali affair inquiry - why? Why was that?

Was he there when the Canadian Government put huge (successful) pressure on UN to not act on the recommendation by the International Human Rights Association of American Minorities about the pedofile ring in vancouver? the evidence of murder, sterilisations and other atrocities at coastal residential schools against Nativa Canadians? Was your friend high up in government then?

Maybe some of your trust worthy friends in high places are still there now, or over the last 20 years, and seeing the environment torn to shreds as they chase commercial wealth for a few companies? I don't know who you are referring to, but every government in the west does what big companies tell them to despite what the people of the countries actually want, or indeed need.

Do I trust anything a politician says? No. Never.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

All you can personally do is refuse to believe them, and others will as well, and one day change will happen.

Well since I haven't voted a presidential election since my first with Reagan, I guess you could say I've done exactly this. I haven't believed one since then and that's why my non vote is my vote. Doesn't exclude my ability to recognize the truth when I need to, on the contrary, which is why I don't have any problems believing what I saw and heard on 911 and knowing it's mostly truth with few valid discrepancies..

^ I agree. Some of what we are told is true. There are some valid discrepancies. There are also a significant amount of information we are not told (apparently this needs to be kept secret from you, even though it is your country).

I was simply address the Variable Truth quote above. Now call me a tin hatter loony conspiracy theorist and other pejoratives if you like, that's your prerogative, but I don't see you actually disagreeing with the premise that the truth it the truth, and if something is part truth, therefore the whole can not be the truth.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

despite what the people of the countries actually want, or indeed need.

There you go again...what the people want. The people all want different things FFS.. and most don't really know what they need. Government is about leadership which involves making difficult decisions than nobody else is in a position to make, or has the authority to make. Decisions that will be opposed by some part of the population no matter what.

Decisions that involve other countries are especially tricky. You can bitch all you want about how "the government" gave in to some other "government" on a trade issue, or whatever, but that's all part of the need for compromise and balance in international relations.

Canada has fought numerous trade battles with the US over the years. They have lost a few, but also scored some very impressive victories. The US plays hardball when it comes to protecting their own, but they can and do reverse their positions when challenged, as long as the case is strong and well presented. Both sides abide by the final rulings and get on with business., exactly as it should be.

If they make decisions that are unlawful, the courts will over-rule them. The system is full of checks and balances. Government can not do whatever it wants...even in Thailand, as we have seen.....

Canada does not always support the US on matters of foreign policy, or anything else for that matter. They were a thorn in the side of the US during the entire Vietnam war era, and became the escape route of choice for draft dodgers.

It really depends on the timing and the leftness or rightness of the incumbent government that will determine support or lack of support in any given situation.

Canadians in general are favourably disposed towards America from my experience, but they are frequently and often vehemently opposed to US government and corporate bullying. Not surprisingly, a great Americans feel exactly the same way.

The relationship changes from administration to administration and is really quite dependent on the personalities at the head of each country's government.

I'm not going to get into all the Aboriginal bullshit, because it's way off topic and just another endless and quite pointless argument...

So what is in those 28 pages that the US don't want people see?

A U.S. congressman calling for the release of classified material from a report into 9/11 has warned there would be 'anger, frustration, and embarrassment' if the redacted pages were made public.
Representative Thomas Massie has joined a call for the government to declassify 28 pages redacted from the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001.
Earlier this year, the lawmaker described how he had to 'try to rearrange my understanding of history' after he read the classified pages of the joint investigation by the House and Senate intelligence committees.

'There will be anger, frustration and embarrassment, but that's no reason to keep the truth from America': Congressman calls for release of redacted 9/11 papers | Mail Online

Originally Posted by koman

The people all want different things

On the surface maybe, but really and at the most basic level, probably not.

Originally Posted by koman

Government is about leadership which involves making difficult decisions than nobody else is in a position to make, or has the authority to make. Decisions that will be opposed by some part of the population no matter what.

This is what we are led to believe, but it should not be. Decision such as what? Do we allow this group of pedos to carry on and go unpunished because of what it might do to our party? Do we confiscate the land of one people to create huge wealth for a tiny tiny minority and in the process decimate the land itself?

Originally Posted by koman

You can bitch all you want about how "the government" gave in to some other "government" on a trade issue, or whatever, but that's all part of the need for compromise and balance in international relations.

Again, false issues created to protect the wealth of a minority.

Originally Posted by koman

If they make decisions that are unlawful, the courts will over-rule them.

No they don't. Not always. Only if their is political motive for that to happen.

Originally Posted by koman

Aboriginal bullshit,

Hmm always comes back to one life being more important than another person life at the end of the day.