Thread: Rubber trees 101

Originally Posted by OhOh

A question about "maintenance". How long, in years, would a mature rubber tree continue to give a good output if all fertiliser, irrigation or pruning stopped completely?

Would it not be an option to just tap the trees and leave everything else on hold, until the price increased? Or have you all already taken this step?

No irrigation needed, if you need it, you planted in the wrong place, pruning, not necessary for mature trees.
You need to keep weeds down, big fire risk in the dry season.

Fertilizer, is one of the few things you can cut back on, or stop all together, many locals have stopped all together, very fine line judging output decrease to fertilizer costs.
Missing a year or 2 may not drop output to much, so it could be cost effective, I have changed how I fertilize, stopped buying bulk and fertilizing twice a year.
Gone over to continues, weather permitting, fertilizing, just buy a few bag here and there, then do an area and move on to the next.

PS, wife just come home, mutiny in the air, 2 tapping families wanting to go to 50/50 split.
Trying it on, my trees are good producers, so they earn more than tappers on 50/50, doing lesser quality trees and we take good care of them generally.

Told the wife to tell them, if their not happy, go, we can get others, one family gets 5 to 6,000 Bt a week, at 15 Baht a kilo, this Xmas, New year drop, to 13 Bt a kilo has sent everyone into a panic.

You would think it's my fault they can't make their payments on the big 4 door pick up and I should make up the difference.
Welcome to the world, want western goods, credit, then your subject to the markets, want to live like your parents, rice, water buffalo, wood huts and no power, then markets, world economy make no difference.

Bit of a tapper meeting, sold rubber today 13 Baht a kilo, all are going to stay until the end of the season, but if no improvement in price.
No tappers next season, one guy has a tractor, recons he can make more hiring out, probably right.

Tried to explain to them, it's Xmas, New year, many big buyers, as in overseas, are in holiday mode, some bad numbers came out of China sending stock markets around the world in to panic.

So everyone sits and waits to see if this is 2008/9 again, who knows, so time for a beer.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by OhOh

A question about "maintenance". How long, in years, would a mature rubber tree continue to give a good output if all fertiliser, irrigation or pruning stopped completely?

Would it not be an option to just tap the trees and leave everything else on hold, until the price increased? Or have you all already taken this step?

No irrigation needed, if you need it, you planted in the wrong place, pruning, not necessary for mature trees.
You need to keep weeds down, big fire risk in the dry season.

Fertilizer, is one of the few things you can cut back on, or stop all together, many locals have stopped all together, very fine line judging output decrease to fertilizer costs.
Missing a year or 2 may not drop output to much, so it could be cost effective, I have changed how I fertilize, stopped buying bulk and fertilizing twice a year.
Gone over to continues, weather permitting, fertilizing, just buy a few bag here and there, then do an area and move on to the next.

PS, wife just come home, mutiny in the air, 2 tapping families wanting to go to 50/50 split.
Trying it on, my trees are good producers, so they earn more than tappers on 50/50, doing lesser quality trees and we take good care of them generally.

Told the wife to tell them, if their not happy, go, we can get others, one family gets 5 to 6,000 Bt a week, at 15 Baht a kilo, this Xmas, New year drop, to 13 Bt a kilo has sent everyone into a panic.

You would think it's my fault they can't make their payments on the big 4 door pick up and I should make up the difference.
Welcome to the world, want western goods, credit, then your subject to the markets, want to live like your parents, rice, water buffalo, wood huts and no power, then markets, world economy make no difference.

Guess there is no real rhyme or reason but every frickin holiday prices drop ..guess they rely on the hand to mouth budgets of small farmers...

Mature rubber trees; irrigation, pruning - que?
Never irrigated in 12 years. Stopped pruning at 3 years.
Sold at auction today, Udon province, 16.00 baht per kg.
Gate prices i've been told were 13 baht per kg.

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Mature rubber trees; irrigation, pruning - que?
Never irrigated in 12 years. Stopped pruning at 3 years.
Sold at auction today, Udon province, 16.00 baht per kg.
Gate prices i've been told were 13 baht per kg.

So after all expenses ,you cleared 16 Baht a kilo? , I wonder why all the Rubber farmers here say waste of time to auction it ?

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

One of my rare forays into the village yesterday, sitting round the camp fire with a couple of boxes of Chang. Banter was among other things, 13 baht per kg for cup on the gate, and 1200 baht per tonne for lumber...

Interesting, 1,200 Bt an ton, a guy on here posted some years ago, 2,000 Bt a ton, 2 big or 3 smaller trees to the ton.

Have noticed some big truck loads of logs on the main road, not sure if rubber, not big trees,nor have I seen anyone logging my local area.

That could be that the logging companies are too busy elsewhere, or are logging the easy access places first.

So anyone seeing younger trees being logged, read many articles, saying people are switching to palm oil.
I'm not thinking of chopping any trees down, but have been seeing plantations up for sale and the prices are the same or less then for bare land.

If this is large scale, how many trees have gone, India seems to be the only country that keeps reasonable stats and their output is dropping weekly.

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Mature rubber trees; irrigation, pruning - que?
Never irrigated in 12 years. Stopped pruning at 3 years.
Sold at auction today, Udon province, 16.00 baht per kg.
Gate prices i've been told were 13 baht per kg.

So after all expenses ,you cleared 16 Baht a kilo? , I wonder why all the Rubber farmers here say waste of time to auction it ?

Read. My. Lips.
I sold @ auction, and the price was 16 baht per kg. I get 55% and my staff get 45% from that price. From my 55% i also pay out for zip ties, industrial bin bags, and formic acid.

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Mature rubber trees; irrigation, pruning - que?
Never irrigated in 12 years. Stopped pruning at 3 years.
Sold at auction today, Udon province, 16.00 baht per kg.
Gate prices i've been told were 13 baht per kg.

So after all expenses ,you cleared 16 Baht a kilo? , I wonder why all the Rubber farmers here say waste of time to auction it ?

Read. My. Lips.
I sold @ auction, and the price was 16 baht per kg. I get 55% and my staff get 45% from that price. From my 55% i also pay out for zip ties, industrial bin bags, and formic acid.

Sorry bout that TG yeah I get your drift , its just the guys here say its a waste of time going to the Auctions as the time you have finished with X's theres no if any difference just selling at the gate

Originally Posted by jamescollister

So anyone seeing younger trees being logged, read many articles, saying people are switching to palm oil.

I haven't seen palm oil being planted but there has been an increase in banana trees. I don't if it's being done just for local markets as the acreage isn't on a large scale. I don't think the soil suitable around here for palm. The only rubber trees I've seen 'logged' was about a year ago and they were replaced with cassava. A step backwards IMO. Only 3 crops produced around here. Sugarcane, cassava and rice is yer lot really. No crop rotation. Same old, same old.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

haven't seen palm oil being planted but there has been an increase in banana trees. I don't if it's being done just for local markets as the acreage isn't on a large scale. I don't think the soil suitable around here for palm. The only rubber trees I've seen 'logged' was about a year ago and they were replaced with cassava. A step backwards IMO. Only 3 crops produced around here. Sugarcane, cassava and rice is yer lot really. No crop rotation. Same old, same old.

It's all very hard to figure out what's really happening, China has closed it's stock markets again.

Just read 2 articles, news paper one.
Interview of rubber planter in the south, 30 of his 50 tappers left on Monday, he hadn't tapped the whole plantation last year, lack of staff and he's cutting a 100 rai to grow alternate crops.

An article out today, World rubber association, alleged experts.
In one paragraph they predicted a 200,000 ton surplus and a one million ton deficit from el nino.

If China's going down the tube, everyone's going, not just the rubber guys, may have to plant rice on the 8 rai I don't use, fend off starvation.

Originally Posted by baldrick

China will have to step in with megaprojects , but I have been wondering if they are just being a bit canny and waiting for the commodities across the board to bottom out before signing contracts

I posted way back, much of the problem is market manipulation, if your big enough, state control capitalism can easily control prices.

Would be interesting to know how many miners, oil companies, China has bought at bargain basement prices lately, or tire companies etc.

With 3 trillion US$ reserves, the whole country could take a year off, economic war and the west is loosing.

With most stock markets cratering, those than can sell and have cash will need somewhere to put it. Productive land, water resources and gold are ideal homes for anyone's surplus.

OhOh, irrigation is good for any tree, plant, but not cost effective, unlike growing vegetables, rubber is spread out over a large area, so you would need a lot of water and pipes.

Luckily for me, we have a high water table, as the run off from the mountains take time, to work it's way down underground and rubber trees have a big tap root,

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Mature rubber trees; irrigation, pruning - que?
Never irrigated in 12 years. Stopped pruning at 3 years.
Sold at auction today, Udon province, 16.00 baht per kg.
Gate prices i've been told were 13 baht per kg.

So after all expenses ,you cleared 16 Baht a kilo? , I wonder why all the Rubber farmers here say waste of time to auction it ?

Read. My. Lips.
I sold @ auction, and the price was 16 baht per kg. I get 55% and my staff get 45% from that price. From my 55% i also pay out for zip ties, industrial bin bags, and formic acid.

Sorry bout that TG yeah I get your drift , its just the guys here say its a waste of time going to the Auctions as the time you have finished with X's theres no if any difference just selling at the gate

Indeed. Selling at auction vs gate price, you are 3 baht per kg better off. The only advantage with a gate sale is it is immediate, no time loss and you get a pay out straight away. On pay day at auctions you get there at lunchtime and wait until tea time before a payout generally.
Our fortnightly expenses at this time of the year are approx 1200 baht per 2 weeks;
1000 for formic
100 for ind. bin bags
60 diesel for the E10
40 for zip ties.

Understand acid but why the rest...rice bags and inner tube strips are the norm here. What is E10 a Toyota car or...??

We gave up years ago with re-using our 50kg fertilizer sacks. You'd never get 50 kgs in there. Then bring them home, wash (stink) and reuse. Now we can get 60 kg in one sack, it's air tight, hence water tight, does'nt leak, opened and left there for auction people to dispose of. Zip ties are quick, strong, and colour coded for 2 different staff teams. 140 baht a fortnight (280 a month) aint gonna break the bank.
An E 10 (pronounced e-ten) is a single cylinder Kubota diesel engine in a pick up truck chassis. 5 gears, no doors, windscreen etc, and about perfick for transporting any farm goods a relatively short distance.
Also great for running into town when some Felangs come visiting on holiday. No number plate, no tax, no insurance. Perfect tool for daytime pub crawls.

Looks like I had better start looking for a job, or more likily start reading up on welfare payments in OZ.

When you have a big bank RBS, saying the end is near, chances are the out look is not good.

Sell everything ahead of stock market crash, say RBS economists | Business | The Guardian

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Looks like I had better start looking for a job, or more likily start reading up on welfare payments in OZ.

When you have a big bank RBS, saying the end is near, chances are the out look is not good.

Sell everything ahead of stock market crash, say RBS economists | Business | The Guardian

1997 Asian financial crisis started in Thailand....bet Mr Happy et al are well prepared to do a runner and blame the darstedly farang.

My darling wife keeps telling me “you cannot eat Baht”
Ergo the survivors will be those with a few rai who plant food and keep livestock?
Often said that armies and economies march on their stomachs…wars has been lost have they not?
Even Hitler realized this...U Boats targeting convoys supplying foodstuffs etc to UK...lost many of his army for want of food in his retreat from Moscow ( did he not heed Napoleon?)

Methinks that farmers could rule the world..Imagine depriving Wall Street of designer coffees…lol

Originally Posted by crepitas

My darling wife keeps telling me “you cannot eat Baht”
Ergo the survivors will be those with a few rai who plant food and keep livestock?
Often said that armies and economies march on their stomachs…wars has been lost have they not?
Even Hitler realized this...U Boats targeting convoys supplying foodstuffs etc to UK...lost many of his army for want of food in his retreat from Moscow ( did he not heed Napoleon?)

Methinks that farmers could rule the world..Imagine depriving Wall Street of designer coffees…lol

Farmers will live, but millions in cities will be finding it hard, no jobs and as government around the world are broke, they will have to cut welfare.

I planted some cassava this year, deal with a Thai farmer, my land his labor, in hindsight, should have been rice and corn.

Up to Buddha, but looking at the 2008/9 GFC rubber prices, we are there already, this time commodities went first, the banks and markets will follow.

Go figure, national rubber auction price up 2 Baht today and one Baht yesterday, India RSS 4 up on lack of supply.

Could be that traders are starting to question this oversupply, there may be light at the end of the tunnel, sentiment drives the markets..

Will see over the next week or so, if it's just a blip or not, but rubbers been hit hard for awhile, if it was a body blow, cutting output and El nino an unaccountable.

As an investment/informed gamble, big returns could be made, after all, 3 Baht increase this week, buyers on Friday made about 7% profit.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

if it's just a blip or not,

china's numbers today were positive - how long the optimism lasts is another question

China reported a considerably larger than expected trade surplus. In yuan terms, the surplus jumped to CNY382.05 from CNY343.10. The consensus had expected a small decline. The record large trade surplus was recorded in October at CNY393.20 bln.

The larger trade surplus in December was driven by stronger than expected exports. Exports, in yuan terms, rose 2.3%. The consensus was for a 4.1% decline after a 3.7% fall in November. It is the first year-over-year increase since June and only the second positive reading for all of last year. Imports fell 4.0% year-over-year, which is about half of the pace the market expected.

A somewhat different picture emerges if the figures are in US dollars. The trade surplus widened to $60.09 bln from $54.1 bln. It was the fifth largest for 2015. In dollar terms, exports did not rise but fell 1.4%, which was still considerably better than the Bloomberg consensus (-8%). Imports fell 7.6% in dollar terms. This compares with an 8.7% fall in November and expectations for an 11% decline in December.”

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Farmers will live, but millions in cities will be finding it hard,

The city dwellers will find your crops and devour them. Invest in a new pair of boots plus a new guns and bullets. Just to kill the wild deer and pigs, of course.

A haunch of venison will be enough for a mia noi.