Thread: Rubber trees 101

Thanks, I'll talk to my missus, whether she will be classified as poor is another thing.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Thanks, I'll talk to my missus, whether she will be classified as poor is another thing.

Think your misses will tell you to fuk off, if you send her off to work in the fields.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by OhOh

Thanks, I'll talk to my missus, whether she will be classified as poor is another thing.

Think your misses will tell you to fuk off, if you send her off to work in the fields.

Indeed. That subsidized life is hard to break from.

Yet, many still do regardless - just outta habit.
Feel contributing.

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Indeed. That subsidized life is hard to break from.

Yet, many still do regardless - just outta habit.
Feel contributing.

True in some cases, but not so much habit, but need to secure tomorrow.
Nearest farang, 7 KM away, his wife never stops, rice, cassava, chickens, market stalls, frogs, everything to make a Baht.
3 kids, all his and no outside income until last year, small pension now.
They both work, but she puts him to shame in the fields.
My wife on the other hand was told by a wondering monk, when at university, she would marry a man from far away who wore a uniform.
She would never really ever need to work, if a monk tells you that, must be true.
12 years later and she's not had a real job, can't argue with that, I haven't done a days paid work in 5 years either.

Kind of miss working at times, helps fill in the day.

Sold at auction on Tuesday, 24.50 baht per kg. Averaging 35-40k per month on our 60% cut from the rainy season production so far.

I think rubber will recover- at the Big Commodity end, latest word is that inventories are dwindling. Imho, now is a time to plant not demolish.

Sold at auction yesterday, 23.78 baht per kg.

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Sold at auction yesterday, 23.78 baht per kg.

Price should be going up, don't understand what's going on.
Outputs down, Indian tappers are on strike, stocks in the warehouses. are low.
Can only be oil prices bringing the market down, but it's not a true reflect of rubber supply.
Capitalism, I guess.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

stocks in the warehouses. are low

But more than enough for planned requirements, yes?

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by jamescollister

stocks in the warehouses. are low

But more than enough for planned requirements, yes?

That's a big question, Chinese companies where borrowing money, using assets of rubber, copper, aluminium, held in bonded warehouses.
Turns out, some warehouses are empty, so the stocks may not be there.

Big tire makers have used the low prices to build up stock, but rubber is bought on the futures market, months in advance, so it's a guessing game on supply, enough, too much or too little.

Every alleged expert has a different opinion, Bloomberg's says plenty, world rubber group says not enough, toss a coin.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

but rubber is bought on the futures market, months in advance

Maybe users have multiple years worth in storage. Some countries companies plan for the next day, some the next quarter, some the next year, some the next 5 years and some for the next decade.

Maybe flawed logic?
Rubber buyers always make a margin of 2-5 baht per kilo regardless of price.
Ergo buying is the way to go if one can be bothered… without the need to farm trees.
Granted, according to Jim, theoretically one needs a license. Do those that sell at auction have to produce a license?
Once upon a time used haul an overloaded pickup to major dealers..was asked once if we were buyers..The answer was no obviously but doubt it would have made any difference.
New gate buyer today..old guy offered 18baht, new lady in new Triton gave us 23 baht...hey ho...

While it would certainly be nice to see cup at 70-80 baht luckily we have sufficient trees and output to keep the larder full, the beer fridge full and can pay the electric bill on time. Sometimes have to delve into my savings for MIL’s medical expenses and adult lazy unemployed step kids...But what the hell? Otherwise a sweet life down on the farm.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by jamescollister

but rubber is bought on the futures market, months in advance

Maybe users have multiple years worth in storage. Some countries companies plan for the next day, some the next quarter, some the next year, some the next 5 years and some for the next decade.

No, unprocessed raw rubber, block or sheet, only has a shelf life of about 12 months.
Remember it's organic and starts getting brittle with time, so you need to process [vulcanize] within the year for most uses.

Cup buyers round here go broke more often then not, guessing water content and tomorrows price in not easy.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by jamescollister

stocks in the warehouses. are low

But more than enough for planned requirements, yes?

That's a big question, Chinese companies where borrowing money, using assets of rubber, copper, aluminium, held in bonded warehouses.
Turns out, some warehouses are empty, so the stocks may not be there.

Big tire makers have used the low prices to build up stock, but rubber is bought on the futures market, months in advance, so it's a guessing game on supply, enough, too much or too little.

Every alleged expert has a different opinion, Bloomberg's says plenty, world rubber group says not enough, toss a coin.

Just curious, Jim...
Outside of the ever-present and steady SE Asian supply - does Africa, South America, or South Asia create much economic competition? Like most historically valued commodities, I'm sure that rubber and it's by-products is highly politically manipulated and controlled.

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Just curious, Jim...
Outside of the ever-present and steady SE Asian supply - does Africa, South America, or South Asia create much economic competition? Like most historically valued commodities, I'm sure that rubber and it's by-products is highly politically manipulated and controlled.

Think the main controlling factor today is wages for tappers, politics once had more impact on control, British Malaysia, French Indo China, US south america, but those days have gone.

Today it's wages and costs, as posted, Indian company tappers are going on strike for better pay, Malaysian tappers get up to 80% of the rubber price, here in much of Thailand, labor is Burmese or Cambodian.

They once grow rubber in Florida, but as wages increased, it became uneconomical, other producers have or will drop out of producing as costs rise.

Goodyear tire reintroduce, a type of slavery in Africa to cut costs, seems the US has laws that say you have to pay a fair local wage.
They gave their plantations away, contracts signed, new owners pay workers in tokens, can be spent at the company shop only.

Figure, may be 5 years and if prices don't rise back to 2008 prices, I will be using Lao workers. Could be sooner, hard to get local tappers now.

New countries come on line, Indonesia, Vietnam etc others go off line, but wages go up, that dollar a day poverty has gone.
.

invent a rubber tapping robot

Originally Posted by jamescollister

New countries come on line, Indonesia, Vietnam etc others go off line, but wages go up, that dollar a day poverty has gone.

Indonesia is hardly a 'new' country in the rubber stakes, and neither is Vietnam.

As or Malaysian tappers getting 80% of the selling price - I'd love to see some evidence of this

Originally Posted by panama hat

As or Malaysian tappers getting 80% of the selling price - I'd love to see some evidence of this

If you have to recruit tappers in India, how much do the locals want.
You being an international rubber plantation consultant and all, think you should beware of costs.

MPD services is looking for Experienced rubber tappers for vacancy in Malaysia . interview in Kerala soon
1. Employee’s Job Title or Position : Rubber Tapper -100 positions
2. Nature of Work (Briefly) : Tapping rubber from rubber trees in Malaysia
3. Age: 18 – 40 years old
4. Sex: Male
5. Basic Monthly Wage-a) Basic Monthly Salary : Av MYR1000 – MYR1500 per month –( aprox RS17,000 – RS26,000 per month)
6. WORKING HOURS-The Employee shall perform tapping hours as per Company’s instruction. 9 hour shift
7. DURATION OF EMPLOYMENT-The Employment Contract shall be for a period of Three (03) years from the date of arrival of worker. This contract may be extended up to Ten (10) years by mutual agreement of both parties and subject to the approval of relevant authorities.
8. ACCOMMODATION-The Employer shall provide the Employee free accommodation with necessary Amenities including water and electric supply. Necessary kitchen items such as stove, gas cylinders and etc will be provided by the Employer for first time usage only. Any subsequent usage will be borne by the Employee. The Employee shall be housed in a decent and suitable accommodation share with a reasonable number of Employees
9. MEAL / FOOD AND LAUNDRY-The cost will be borne by the Employee.
10. MEDICAL BENEFIT-The workers will be entitled to free medical treatment including medical treatment for estate injuries, except for self-inflicted injuries such as sexually transmitted diseases or any other chronic diseases that has been carried by the Employee from his own country.
11. YEARLY MEDICAL EXAMINATION-The Employer will arrange and bear cost of the yearly medical examination of the Employee, as required by the Immigration Department of Malaysia.
12. ANNUAL LEAVE, SICK LEAVE AND PUBLIC HOLIDAYS- as per Malaysian law
13. INSURANCE COVERAGE AND SECURITY BOND- The Employer shall provide full insurance coverage (free for the Employee) such as Workmen Compensation Scheme for Foreign Workers during the course of employment. The Security Bond / Insurance Guarantee shall be borne by the Employer.
14. GOVERNMENT LEVY AND IMMIGRATION FEES- The levy will be borne by the Employer (No deduction from Employee’s salary).
15. TRANSPORTATION- The Employer shall be responsible to provide suitable transport to the Employee / worker for duty from and to / between the workplace and the worker’s hostel.
16. TRAVELING EXPENSES- upon completion of the Employment Contract the travelling expenses, including air ticket, from workplace to India shall be borne by the Employer.
ppPlease send enquiries to [email protected], [email protected] , 0091-9947540006/0091-9846724374

NIMI MOHAN
HR TEAM LEAD -GROUP

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Malaysian tappers get up to 80% of the rubber price

Originally Posted by panama hat

As or Malaysian tappers getting 80% of the selling price - I'd love to see some evidence of this

. . . as 'proof' you post an ad for labour from India.

I know you're loathe to ever admit you're wrong, despite having been proven so many times, but surely this is scraping the bottom of the disingenuous mental barrel

Originally Posted by jamescollister

If you have to recruit tappers in India, how much do the locals want.
You being an international rubber plantation consultant and all, think you should beware of costs.

You already made a statement as to how much locals GET - yet you fail to back up your claim.

As for your next strawman . . . you made the claim, I asked you to show me something that supports your assertion and you don't . . . instead, you paste an ad for Indian labour.

It's easy:

Ah, PH. I made an off-the-cuff comment, just guessing.

Easy

The Star Online

According to Salmiah, Malaysia's average yield per ha stands at about 1,500 kg, which is much lower than other major NR producing countries like Thailand, Indonesia and Vietnam.

6,25 rai to a hectare, so 1,000 trees is a bit over 14 rai, now i get my percentage tapper a 50/50 split. for easy numbers, bit over 2 hectares.
Tad over 3,000 kilos a year, price is say 30 Baht a kilo, giving 90,000, his share is 45,000, even if I gave him 2,000 trees, that's a lot for one man, he would still not get the wage offered to quest workers.

The man would be a fool to take 50/50 split when Indonesian and Indian guest workers get between 100,000 and 150,000 Baht a year, working the big plantations,
So what percentage do you think a Malaysian would want.

Why don't you post something about percentage tappers in Malaysia that says different.

As 70% of rubber is company run, they pay wages. different system to Thailand.

The Kerala Cabinet has approved a 'Munnar package' for striking plantation workers in the State, which incorporates a health insurance scheme and provision for housing.
While recommending the package to the State Government, the Cabinet also expressed itself in favour of an upward revision of wages in plantation sector.
This comes ahead of a scheduled meeting of the Plantation Labour Committee which had met thrice before but failed to arrive at an amicable settlement to the unrest across plantations in the State.
Chief Minister Oommen Chandy is expected to attend the meeting that begins in a short while from now.
Earlier bids had failed after the trade union leaders and the plantation managements could not agree on a minimum wage.
Most plantations have been lying closed for days together now. Sources said that the State Government is keen to bring about an early solution especially in view of the fast-approaching elections to local bodies.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Why don't you post something about percentage tappers in Malaysia that says different.

I didn't make the statement that tappers make up to 80% of the price sold. You did.