Again could well be but surely he ain't mistaken about the 30 rai of 7 year old rubber tree's they felled and replaced with Sugar cane and Cassava:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
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Again could well be but surely he ain't mistaken about the 30 rai of 7 year old rubber tree's they felled and replaced with Sugar cane and Cassava:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
30 rai of rubber.Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoiAgain could well be but surely he ain't mistaken about the 30 rai of 7 year old rubber tree's they felled and replaced with Sugar cane and Cassava:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
That's considerable.
I must be wrong then. Sorry.
Personally I would think its safe to deduce that Guzzi knows the difference between Rubber and Euca trees , theres a German guy here who I was only talking to last night who has over 60 rai of mature tree's who is not tapping this season the reason being is that labour and other costs is more than he could get for his rubber ,mind you it can't be as bad as rice farming with over 20 suicides due to mounting debts through the ill fated (for some)rice scheme .Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
According to this article dated Aug 2014 this present administration intends to pursue the policy of felling 350,000 rubbers trees a year ,and faced with losing money by not tapping or other reasons if they recieve a good grant for doing so ,I see no reason to doubt that Guzzi's post carrys some credence :)UPDATE 1-Thai govt to aim for rubber supply cut to support prices | Reuters
Well piwanoi, some folks are willing to take 15 baht a kilo it seems to survive...adding to the already over stocked rubber pile. Nothing like killing yourself off by tapping a already dead industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
Not started cutting the rubber trees here yet...but it will come sooner or later as the reality of rice prices fail to climb, rubber continues to fall, taro roots dumps due to over supply, over valued Baht, government interference in price setting, and lastly low costs on foreign produced commodities.
Thailand's economy is in a state of "deflation," like it or not. The public is knowledgeable and is cutting back on purchases...forced to. All real industry is owned by the 1% and they are not going to give up their strangle hold on Thailand. That's pretty apparent by the current political conundrum.
I was recently offered 4 rai of producing rubber trees at 125,000/rai. Glad I didn't buy it. Of course I could have cut and sold then with the empty land near the main roadway, divided it up into lots for private buyers?
Itnt I suppose its safe to say that some might come to the conclusion that in reading our posts that some how we are gloating at the rubber farmers sad demise ,any thing but is the case ,all we are doing is laying it on the line that maybe down to over production and other various factors like the Worlds depression and the low price of oil the Klondyke days of rubber are far behind us , this non elected administration now wants to fell 350,000 rubber tree's a year with a one off payment of 21,000 a rai ,in my view far better that than keep paying over the odds for rubber and stockpiling it until the cows come home ,as to how much the rice scheme has lost in 100s of billions is open to debate ,but in essence no one will ever know the truth , the truth which sadly is often known as pessimism simply cos no fucker out there wants to hear it ,and ain't that just the truth ?:)
Farmers that planted rubber trees post Aug 2000 must have been fcuking stupid. The warning was there for all to see.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/02/bu...roy-trees.htmlQuote:
Aug. 1— Thailand, the world's top producer of natural rubber, plans to destroy more than 2 percent of its rubber trees annually as efforts at stockpiling have failed to bolster prices from near 30-year lows, officials said. The government plans to start logging on an annual 47,000 hectares of plantations by the end of this year and shift farmers to planting other crops. With 1.98 million hectares under cultivation, and 400 trees a hectare, Thailand produces a third of the world's natural rubber.
''This augurs well for rubber prices -- you'll see supply drop a lot,'' said Tan Swee Hua, managing director at Getahindus, a rubber-trading company in Malaysia. Malaysia has often tried to reduce the rubber supply, only to see cuts in its supply offset by increased output by Thailand and Indonesia, he added.
Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia, which produce 85 percent of the world's rubber, agreed this month to restrict supply to help farmers get prices that can sustain cultivation.
Thailand's first concerted effort to cut trees could bolster rubber prices and hurt tire makers, analysts said. The global tire industry buys $6.8 billion worth of natural rubber a year, with the top eight makers, including the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, buying 45 percent of the world supply.
Now 2015 and what is Thailand proposing to do with it's rubber tree surplus? :rofl:
# Yeah, from England.Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
# Not only 'taties, cod as well. And petrol. And...
I can differentiate between Eucalyptus and rubber trees. 5 years ago, people were getting top dollar (20-50k per rai) for old rubber trees cut down,sold for lumber to the furniture trade. I don't understand why this trade has gone, replaced by everyone selling trees to pulping paper mills aka Double A. Perhaps it's because they are 6-7-8 year old trees that look like my trees were when they were 5 years old, ie bottle of beer diameter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
Far from it piwanoi, as you say. Sad days for Thai farmers all around.Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
I would keep my trees. 21 K is nothing for mature trees. If I just planted new growth I might think about it and perhaps venture into "coco trees." Anyone tried that yet? Wife thought that one up. Haven't investigated that thought yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
Due to the same principles of over supply and cheaper imports from China and elsewhere. China will do anything to keep market share even losses on sales.Quote:
Originally Posted by thaiguzzi
China is starting to monopolize the rubber industry. Don't figure they are going to give up anything to rubber growers. They have them right where they wanted them, buyer's market.
Yeah Well, at the time many thought that the ill fated rice scheme was a good idea , including quite a few members on this forum , where are they now with their grandious ideas? the threads are still open :), IMHO whenever the Chinese get involved in any business it spells doom for their competitorsQuote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic
If you mean Cocoa trees, the fruit/pods to make chocolate, a local farmer, who has a large coffee tree farm, also has some Cocoa trees which appear to be growing well. Too young to determine kg/tree/Rai. I would think the same type of post harvest processing is required for cocoa beans as for coffee.Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
Fertiliser and water requirements are similar, not sure if Elephants are considered a pest.
The world price has fluctuated from US$1.59, ten years ago to US$3.5, 5 years ago and is now at US$2.8 (90 - 100 baht) for 1Kg cocoa beans. I presume that is "green" beans - cleaned and dried but not roasted.
Cocoa beans - Daily Price - Commodity Prices - Price Charts, Data, and News - IndexMundi
Yes, where in Thailand? Altitude required? Not old enough for harvesting yet? How many years til productive? You've seen this? I'm interested...Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
^ Quite few articles on growing cocoa in Thailand, this just being one of them ,let Google be your friend :)Factfish Cocoa beans, production quantity for Thailand
^Ok, I was seeking Oh,oh's personal experience piwanoi. Thanks I'll read the article.
Loads of video's on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u4Laz4u1lU
^Nice article and data on fact fish. Ranked 38th but shows no export. There has to be a developing market both locally and internationally. Vid not to bad either.
The farming aspect looks simple enough and not stoop labor in harvesting. Cleaning out and gathering the beans is simple enough...I suppose you could air dry in the sun like the taro root.
Finding a market shouldn't be to difficult if you have enough product.
Thanks.
They do quite well here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
Suitable and flexible climates.
I see a glut on the horizon.
:)
What location is "here?"Quote:
Originally Posted by thaimeme
How's that? Glut? number 38 in the world according to stats in 2013...no market here? Yet....:)
A little bit more info on the cocoa trade Cocoa beans - Daily Price - Commodity Prices - Price Charts, Data, and News - IndexMundi
According to this article world demand for chocolate will increase by 25% in a few years :)Cocoa & history and how to grow cacao trees with dealers in Thailand
His Coffee plus Cocoa farm is close to Borai, in Trat province, close to the Cambodian border. His coffee is Robustan so no "altitude/temp" problems with that. As I say his Cocoa is a new crop, 1st year in farm so the plants are maybe 24 months old, so no growth or yield data is yet available. Having said that if you look at the requirements for both it's basically a Tropical environment required.Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
Visually, to the non expert farmer :), the young Cocoa trees are growing at the same rate and just as healthy looking as the young coffee trees planted at the same time.
I am not sure where he intends to sell the Cocoa, I will investigate further.
Excellent report. Where did he get his seedlings?Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
pwanoi, excellent sites both. I've bookmarked each, already had the commodity stats file. Perhaps my best resource tool.
From the read it appears to be a perfect inbetween crop planting for Rubber tree farmers...lots of shade. I think its a natural. No downside that I can see once the client base is established.
Nice briefing - yet, Cocao is much more flexible to where it can sustain itself within a tropical zone.....whereas coffee [depending on the hybrid type] obviously needs altitude to flourish.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOhHis Coffee plus Cocoa farm is close to Borai, in Trat province, close to the Cambodian border. His coffee is Robustan so no "altitude/temp" problems with that. As I say his Cocoa is a new crop, 1st year in farm so the plants are maybe 24 months old, so no growth or yield data is yet available. Having said that if you look at the requirements for both it's basically a Tropical environment required.Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
Visually, to the non expert farmer :), the young Cocoa trees are growing at the same rate and just as healthy looking as the young coffee trees planted at the same time.
I am not sure where he intends to sell the Cocoa, I will investigate further.
Cocao, like coffee and tea, will take on the distinct characteristics of it's immediate environment - soil, moisture, altitude, latitude, temp, etc. The reasons why you'll find a true respective difference in chocolate as one will find in coffee and tea.
It would be ludicrous to sell off rubber plantations, even when the price is low - and it is low because of the low price of oil.
I have a buyer from Shanghai, though an old colleague who brought me in for my expertise, wanting to buy up rubber like it's going out of fashion. Can't buy it here for export because it is a restricted export item like oil, edible oil, sugar and rice.
Stick with it, nurture your trees - got to a d3 system for a while and alter your tapping techniques like p1-4 and sharper cutting angle
How's that improve product price? Glut is glut OkrRkr...Quote:
Originally Posted by OckerRocker
Yep Itnt, the way I see it if you improve your tapping process all you are achieving is adding to the problem of over production :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
^Plant some Cacao inbetween and in three years you've doubled your money.
Hey Itnt , the only thing I'm cultivating is two trees behind our house ,one Mango and 1 lemon , I've been looking for some money tree seeds (Farangus bigpocketus ) for the last 10 years or so ,so far with no success :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
It doesn't improve product price, that is dictated by the Thai cartels and the world crude oil price.Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoiYep Itnt, the way I see it if you improve your tapping process all you are achieving is adding to the problem of over production :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
What it does is allow you to sustain yourself by allowing income - the biggest advantage rubber has over other cash crops/trees/plantations is that it is daily income. Most plantation owners are small-holders and they rely on their daily cup lump or sheet sales, either to the co-operative or the factories.
Altering the tapping method ensures he health of the tree and increased yield when prices rebound.
My plantation in Chanthaburi has been converted to d4 with no stimulants, a six-inch panel tap at 220 degrees . . . tapping downward to 4ft from the ground and upward after 4 ft. I've also altered the fertiliser quantities to be used at crosspoints every four months and just to leave the trees alone during wintering.
Rainy times can be tapped using a skirt.
Some crops are plantable for rubber plantations, but cocoa isn't ideal for this. Cocoa is far better suited as an intercrop for palmoil and coconut plantations. The most opportune time for cocoa intercropping in rubber plantations is only in the first five or six years after seedling planting. After that it doesn't work well
then pass the beans through a civet cat and your profits will increase 50 fold :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
Picture of the tree and tapping panel please.Quote:
Originally Posted by OckerRockerIt doesn't improve product price, that is dictated by the Thai cartels and the world crude oil price.Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoiYep Itnt, the way I see it if you improve your tapping process all you are achieving is adding to the problem of over production :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
What it does is allow you to sustain yourself by allowing income - the biggest advantage rubber has over other cash crops/trees/plantations is that it is daily income. Most plantation owners are small-holders and they rely on their daily cup lump or sheet sales, either to the co-operative or the factories.
Altering the tapping method ensures he health of the tree and increased yield when prices rebound.
My plantation in Chanthaburi has been converted to d4 with no stimulants, a six-inch panel tap at 220 degrees . . . tapping downward to 4ft from the ground and upward after 4 ft. I've also altered the fertiliser quantities to be used at crosspoints every four months and just to leave the trees alone during wintering.
Rainy times can be tapped using a skirt.
Some crops are plantable for rubber plantations, but cocoa isn't ideal for this. Cocoa is far better suited as an intercrop for palmoil and coconut plantations. The most opportune time for cocoa intercropping in rubber plantations is only in the first five or six years after seedling planting. After that it doesn't work well
I thought that was Coffee?Quote:
Originally Posted by baldrick
Combating Customer Erosion By Targeting ?New Movers? - Tire Review Magazine
commerce-department-declares-anti-dumping-duties/
Preliminary anti-dumping duties for certain passenger and light truck tires imported from China were set Jan. 21, 2015, by the Commerce Department’s International Trade Administration. The duty rates vary between 19.17% and 87.99% before adjustments.
Think that has more influence on China's rubber buying then supply's available,
Where the US goes on tariffs the EU will probably follow, you don't buy rubber to make tires if you can't sell them.
China will not be able to sell cheap tires with the added tariffs, their market share will shrink and be replaced by other makers over time, or they will stop subsidizing the industry.
IMF world rubber predictions 2015, tire grade rubber will settle mid year to around $2,500 US a M/T or about 80 Baht a kilo wholesale.
OR, doubt you have ever even seen a rubber tree as what you have written makes no sense at all.
Not sure if I get your drift here, but Do you think in your wildest dreams that the Thai Customs are Holier than thou as far as Imports from China in to Thailand goes?, the whole fucking Country is run both political and financial by Ethnic Thai Chinese :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescollister
To bad about the lack of money trees in your area piwanoi...open a massage parlor, that'll do the job.:sorry1:
Nice one , your concern touches the old heart strings , thanks but no thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
What's it got to do with Thai imports, it's US tariffs, say a $100 tire gets an added 19 to 88 % import tax when sold in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoiNot sure if I get your drift here, but Do you think in your wildest dreams that the Thai Customs are Holier than thou as far as Imports from China in to Thailand goes?, the whole fucking Country is run both political and financial by Ethnic Thai Chinese :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescollister
Not cheap anymore, so do you buy expensive Chinese tires or cheaper US local made tires.
China played a game, subsidizing it's local industry in order to put the competition out of business, now they have import tariffs into the US and may be later the EU.
If they can't compete on price they will make fewer tires, less rubber needed, car sales world wide are up, someone will make the tires, supply and demand.
As stated previously not sure if I got your drift , I do hope this suffices ,meanwhile what ever statistics you write including tapping your rubber at a "special night " at the full moon by the family's decree , "Sadly and I say sadly quite seriously" I highly doubt that the " good old days" will ever return , and no I am not gloating at others down fall anything but and that goes for Itnt , all we are doing is looking at the depressed rubber market ,its that simple :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescollisterWhat's it got to do with Thai imports, it's US tariffs, say a $100 tire gets an added 19 to 88 % import tax when sold in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoiNot sure if I get your drift here, but Do you think in your wildest dreams that the Thai Customs are Holier than thou as far as Imports from China in to Thailand goes?, the whole fucking Country is run both political and financial by Ethnic Thai Chinese :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescollister
Not cheap anymore, so do you buy expensive Chinese tires or cheaper US local made tires.
China played a game, subsidizing it's local industry in order to put the competition out of business, now they have import tariffs into the US and may be later the EU.
If they can't compete on price they will make fewer tires, less rubber needed, car sales world wide are up, someone will make the tires, supply and demand.