Rubber trees 101

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Just purchased 40 bags of 29-5-18 fertilizer for 36,800 baht, less than normal, but your trees have to eat, if they are working. "Work hard, not eat, people get sick, same same trees". The missus is rarely wrong. If you are tapping, then ya gotta fertilize. If you are having a year off, then you can leave it out if you cannot afford it.
We are still on a 60/40 split.

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Normally I would just get 80 bags on credit and pay it off over the next few months, but with the uncertain prices not keen to get into debt.
5 bags this week, sell another plantations rubber Friday, barring rains and another 5 bags, step by step and don't get into debt.

Have to say, feeling a bit more confident on the price front, world rubber use for 2014 was published a few days ago.
1 and 1/2 million tons more used then in 2013 and expected to grow by 6% this year.

I know there is a market price indicator, is there a Futures market anywhere which quotes for Rubber or latex?

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Originally Posted by OhOh

I know there is a market price indicator, is there a Futures market anywhere which quotes for Rubber or latex?

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This may help.
http://www.rubberthai.com/price/eng/price_eng.htm
Untitled Document

Tokyo futures.

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

If you are having a year off, then you can leave it out if you cannot afford it.

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If the trees have never been tapped no need for fertilizer then? Still in their infancy 1-5 years old?

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Originally Posted by ltnt

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

If you are having a year off, then you can leave it out if you cannot afford it.

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If the trees have never been tapped no need for fertilizer then? Still in their infancy 1-5 years old?

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Wonder if those who propagate rubber trees prefer natural fertilizers compared to their chemically enrich cousins...

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Originally Posted by ltnt

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

If you are having a year off, then you can leave it out if you cannot afford it.

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If the trees have never been tapped no need for fertilizer then? Still in their infancy 1-5 years old?

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Yes, you need to fertilise. Fertliser isn't just for tapping purposes, it is to provide nutrients. Just make sure your little trees are trimmed well, fertiliser is placed at an x-axis three or four times a year and you'll be fine . . . depending on the soil, among other things, of course

Worth a read....anyone seen the NPK tablets here...slow release is more beneficial and efficient per link ..

The Effect of Omission Fertilizer Application on Rubber Yield of PB 260 - Current Agriculture Research Journal

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Originally Posted by crepitas

Worth a read....anyone seen the NPK tablets here...slow release is more beneficial and efficient per link ..

The Effect of Omission Fertilizer Application on Rubber Yield of PB 260 - Current Agriculture Research Journal

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Interesting, but my brain hurts... Being a Luddite, just stick with what we know, and what the Thai Rubber Institute reccomends; 30-5-18 for 7 year old trees and older.

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Originally Posted by ltnt

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

If you are having a year off, then you can leave it out if you cannot afford it.

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If the trees have never been tapped no need for fertilizer then? Still in their infancy 1-5 years old?

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I've fertilized twice a year since year one, and it aint fucking cheap... A farmer's gotta do, what a farmer's gotta do...

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Originally Posted by OckerRocker

depending on the soil, among other things, of course

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Do you get your soil tested, if so where?

I did with the Chanthaburi Agricultural Dept. From memory it didn't cost me a penny

Just dumping fertiliser without knowing what your soil lacks/needs isn't very productive and timing is important as well . . . like the logical step of not fertilising before or during the rainy season.

Thanks

You're welcome.

I believe some universities or agricultural colleges may do it as well

Thai agriculture department does most for free around here or close to it. All the pigs were dieing recently and the Agriculture department offered to inoculate all the farmers pigs for 50 baht per household.

Some took the offer and many did not and lost their pigs.

The Thai Agriculture Department is quite active and willing to participate when called upon it seems around here. One fellow raises goats and he gets visits from the Ag dept. all the time to help him grow healthy goats. Nice young man, from the south. How he ended up in the North is interesting.

34.52 baht per kg for cup @ auction yesterday. Higher than any price received last season by a few satang.

First bit of proper rain here in the last couple of days. Got our fertilizer dug in yesterday; 44 bags in 64 rai, not a bad days work.

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

First bit of proper rain here in the last couple of days. Got our fertilizer dug in yesterday

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Good timing.

May I ask what spatial rules you used?

Took the leap, put the factory up for sale yesterday, Ubon properties, they are trying to figure out an appraised value.
Couple of things that I never thought of came up, is the licence area specific, or movable, seems that could make a big difference, could sell the factory and keep the licence or sell the licence and keep the factory and go into something other than rubber.

Either way will make a good return on the land alone, national zoned industrial land, even in the boonies is not cheap, so fingers crossed will have a good pay day, no hurry though.

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Zoning????? what zoning, never heard of it here.

^Zoning used to be being able to not actually think..."zoning out," it was called...

Thailand zoning...now that's funny...:rofl:

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

Either way will make a good return on the land alone

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I hope you do because the following sounds a bit of a worry:

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

Normally I would just get 80 bags on credit and pay it off over the next few months, but with the uncertain prices not keen to get into debt.

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Originally Posted by mykthemin

Zoning????? what zoning, never heard of it here.

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That's the thing, to be legal lots of rules and regs, most don't bother, but when the time comes and the government finds you, bad things happen.
Rubber board controls licencing, no zoning, EPA, factories licences, on and on, no rubber processing license.

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Originally Posted by panama hat

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

First bit of proper rain here in the last couple of days. Got our fertilizer dug in yesterday

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Good timing.

May I ask what spatial rules you used?

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Que?

Can you re-phrase that in English please?

Sorry. :) Where do you actually drop the fertiliser - as in placement?

Right down the middle. 7m between the trees, so 3.5m from the trees. One hole dug for 2 trees each side. Ditto next row, ad nauseum. Trees are between 7 and 11 years old, full canopy for several years now. The odd "runt of the litter" smaller trees not being tapped still get 3 holes dug round in a circle about 1m from the tree.

One bloke with a hoe digs, and pulls up the clod of earth. Woman follows with bucket and s/s mug, pours in fertilizer, covers it up and tramps on it with her foot. Been doing it this way since year dot. Never throw, only dig and cover. However, once every 3-4 years we will buy NC (organic) or chicken poo, and then we throw, not dig, as a supplement for the soil, not the trees.

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Trees are between 7 and 11 years old, full canopy for several years now.

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Teenagers - good latex production!

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Been doing it this way since year dot. Never throw, only dig and cover

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That's about the best way

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

However, once every 3-4 years we will buy NC (organic) or chicken poo, and then we throw, not dig, as a supplement for the soil, not the trees.

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Good move

Excuse the bad picture, just drew it up quickly.

Is this how you place the fertiliser?:

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/06/495.jpg

Reason being is that the larger roots don't absorb as many nutrients as the feeder roots, the small ones that basically go searching for nutrients - the older they are the further they creep.

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

chicken poo, and then we throw,

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What are you paying for the chicken poo? BIL buys it at one hundred baht per sack full. Was cheaper last year but more folks are using it so the price went up dramatically...was 25 baht per sack...guessing 50 kilos each.

# Yes, one session we dig in the same as you have drawn, the next session parallel to the trees, ie we alternate the hole position so it is not in the exact same place each time.
# Have not bought chicken poo since 2013, when it was 300 baht per 45 kg bag, this was a fully dried, proper compressed professional/industrial jobbie. Not just bought from a local chicken farm. So we are due to buy again in 2016/17.
# Sold at auction yesterday, 34.10 baht per kg for cup.

Aaah the sweet sound of chainsaws!
Cutting down rubber trees on adjacent farm. Remember the young couple owners only opened the trees for cutting about four years ago.
Bit worried that our power lines run alongside their farm..hope they give a damn?

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Originally Posted by crepitas

Aaah the sweet sound of chainsaws!
Cutting down rubber trees on adjacent farm. Remember the young couple owners only opened the trees for cutting about four years ago.
Bit worried that our power lines run alongside their farm..hope they give a damn?

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Do you know why they are felling the trees, could understand it, start of the year, but cup prices have doubled since then.

Perhaps they took the government grant to cut trees down when the price was low, now to late to back out.

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

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Originally Posted by crepitas

Aaah the sweet sound of chainsaws!
Cutting down rubber trees on adjacent farm. Remember the young couple owners only opened the trees for cutting about four years ago.
Bit worried that our power lines run alongside their farm..hope they give a damn?

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Do you know why they are felling the trees, could understand it, start of the year, but cup prices have doubled since then.

Perhaps they took the government grant to cut trees down when the price was low, now to late to back out.

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No idea Jim..not sure about the locals knowing about gov grant..nothing mentioned at last village headman meeting...have to wait for wifey to get the info at her next all woman noodle-fest yakathon.

Goin' doooooownnn... Sold @ auction yesterday, 29.80 baht per kg.

Saw a group of rubber growers on the way into town today at 09:00, they were all still at the brokers when I returned home at 15:00. Didn't look like a lot of rubber being used in the transaction from where I viewed it.

Most groves are now covered in weeds and cups turned upside down no signs of tapping.

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Goin' doooooownnn... Sold @ auction yesterday, 29.80 baht per kg.

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Going down, think it's more about Chinese stock market doing a bit of a swan dive the last week or so.
Supply and demand side looking good from our side, as itnt mentioned, out puts down every where, people not tapping, hard to get workers.
Our trees taken care of from day one, out put at east twice as much as the locals trees, my tappers are struggling, money wise, so paid tappers on Thai trees would be getting half that, not worth the effort.

Been reading that India's tire manufacturers are in talks with the government, domestic rubber production is down 25% and falling and they need to secure their supplies.
They can't pay more for rubber and compete with the Chinese.

Not that it makes much difference at the moment, been raining for 3 days, tonight will be the forth night of no tapping.

^Lucky you. No rain here since a few sprinkles on the 9th...temps in the 90 F here for the past two weeks. Rice farmers are still planting. What a shame...disaster on the horizon I think.

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Originally Posted by ltnt

Saw a group of rubber growers on the way into town today at 09:00, they were all still at the brokers when I returned home at 15:00. Didn't look like a lot of rubber being used in the transaction from where I viewed it.

Most groves are now covered in weeds and cups turned upside down no signs of tapping.

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Not up here in the sticks in Udon Province. Every land parcel is being tapped. Everybody is tapping. Fortnightly auction has never had less than 9 bidders with sealed envelopes. Last year the minimum amount of bids i heard at auction was 3...

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Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

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Originally Posted by ltnt

Saw a group of rubber growers on the way into town today at 09:00, they were all still at the brokers when I returned home at 15:00. Didn't look like a lot of rubber being used in the transaction from where I viewed it.

Most groves are now covered in weeds and cups turned upside down no signs of tapping.

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Not up here in the sticks in Udon Province. Every land parcel is being tapped. Everybody is tapping. Fortnightly auction has never had less than 9 bidders with sealed envelopes. Last year the minimum amount of bids i heard at auction was 3...

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No shortage of buyers here, tappers are a problem though.
Family places tap, but the bigger plantations using percentage workers can't get the labor.
Lots of building going on in the area, steady work, everyday come rain or shine, roads being upgraded, big cassava sheds built, jobs everywhere.

You may find a 19 teen year old with no skills willing to work in a PTT station pumping gas at 300 Baht a day, but keeping a tapper through the rains, who may only average 100 to 150 Bt a day is getting harder.

Guy who lives in our street, builder village type, 200 Baht to put up a door, aircon guy/wife, kids room aircon needs serviced, 500 Baht, 1/2 hour job, may be a week or so before he can fit us in.

Only people I see working, [as in paid work] in the rice and cassava are old, a problem that may need a rethink long term. Jim

Sold @ auction yesterday, 28.28 baht per kg.