Rubber trees 101

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

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Originally Posted by crepitas

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

Seen it facebook.

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lol ....yup knew you would....still my angel..

Leafs are back on rubber....now....every baht helps.

Maybe get up there in late 2015..

regards
d

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Will be awhile before we start tapping again, still have leaves, but no rubber.

Good thing about poverty and boredom, gets you thinking and acting, been on the net chasing a pension fund I paid into in the UK a long time ago.
Think I found it, if there is any money left, fingers crossed, might get a few Baht out of it. If not, I've aided in saving the UK bankers who stole it.

Come on up anytime, plenty of roomhttps://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/02/1122.jpg and hopefully more if/when the FIL goes to prison.

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Lol ..my UK sister suggested I apply for UK pension..I left at 21 for South Africa....probably be about one and six a month.
So rubber farmers how is life..came back from Canada beginning of Feb to rock hard ground and leafless trees .
No change except we have leafs and cutting continues. Average net about 5kbt every 4 days at about 20bt/kilo cup.
Life goes on..hope the drought does not continue as wells are real low. .....happy days.

On the glass half full side we have a ton of bananas, the one producing coconut tree has three coconuts and the mango tree that self seeded has a million small mangoes plus loads of flowers.
Also many flowering trees and shrubs in profusion also....nice!

Jim: As an irrelevant aside re UK pensions..some years back was sitting aboard a 40+ plus foot power vessel of a very suss Brit... sipping his G+Ts..told me he went back to UK ,pleaded poverty with XX rent and expenses..and was awarded 110 pounds a week OAP...BS? Who knows?

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Originally Posted by crepitas

pleaded poverty with XX rent and expenses..and was awarded 110 pounds a week OAP...BS? Who knows?

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Yeah I think BS too mate. Easy enough to check if you're entitled to anything, look here. https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility No need to be in the UK to claim. Just as long as you meet the criteria.

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Originally Posted by Pragmatic

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Originally Posted by crepitas

pleaded poverty with XX rent and expenses..and was awarded 110 pounds a week OAP...BS? Who knows?

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Yeah I think BS too mate. Easy enough to check if you're entitled to anything, look here. https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility No need to be in the UK to claim. Just as long as you meet the criteria.

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No state pension for me in the UK, this was a job related one, not long term , seems it's there, but how much is the question.
They have changed my address, but I await the letter with details, been to the post office boss saying if the letter arrives call us, don't give it to bozo on the motorbike to deliver.
Question will be can I get any money, rules have changed so much, what I've read, you can pay 50% tax, crazy things, can't claim it for this and that reason, seems I can get 75% of what there may be if I am wiling to die within 12 months.
My money, government has stolen a load and still wants more.
Feel like I've been conned, paid in one way or other into pension schemes, OZ , UK and the money has gone, would have been better pissing it up against the wall.

HM Customs and Excise + HM Inspector of taxes had a ball with all of mine. One should have heeded the foresail flapping more diligently.

A guy I know who lives near me was nearly destitute, he reluctantly applied for his uk pension about a year ago and he now gets 114.00 poungs uk a week paid into his thai bank account, he left the uk at 26 and worked in egypt for years until he came her about 10 years ago. it is always worth asking, they can only say no.

Just harvested the Tamarin yesterday...7 baht/kilo. Not worth doing, but the old lady 82 wanted them. Got 5 rice sacks full. She husks them and I suppose try's to sell them. Have to humor the old folks...

Until the trees reach the age of 15, 16 years old, the time span of stopping tapping from complete no leaf to full new leaf and re tapping should not be less than 8 weeks, ideally 10-12 weeks. Even though full leaf and colour returns in as little as 3 weeks. The experts all say wait till the rainy season, but that is just tooooo long a wait.

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Originally Posted by ltnt

Just harvested the Tamarin yesterday...7 baht/kilo. Not worth doing, but the old lady 82 wanted them. Got 5 rice sacks full. She husks them and I suppose try's to sell them. Have to humor the old folks...

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wife got given a rice sack full of the sour type...shucked em ..now drying in the sun..but where to keep...bet rats will get at them? If we store enclosed in a bucket will they rot?

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Originally Posted by mykthemin

A guy I know who lives near me was nearly destitute, he reluctantly applied for his uk pension about a year ago and he now gets 114.00 poungs uk a week paid into his thai bank account, he left the uk at 26 and worked in egypt for years until he came her about 10 years ago. it is always worth asking, they can only say no.

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interesting..not something that shows up on their website..only worked in UK about 4 years...maybe will write them a letter....can't hurt I guess...maybe writing it in Urdu would help?

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Originally Posted by crepitas

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Originally Posted by mykthemin

A guy I know who lives near me was nearly destitute, he reluctantly applied for his uk pension about a year ago and he now gets 114.00 poungs uk a week paid into his thai bank account, he left the uk at 26 and worked in egypt for years until he came her about 10 years ago. it is always worth asking, they can only say no.

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interesting..not something that shows up on their website..only worked in UK about 4 years...maybe will write them a letter....can't hurt I guess...maybe writing it in Urdu would help?

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Give it a go, they give money out like confetti, let us know how it goes. Good Luck.

Any one know of any one selling their sheet rubber making machines? I am looking for a set. or an all in one machine at the right money.

From the information I can glean, you have to have made at least 10 years subscriptions before you qualify for anything , that is as Crepitas correctly noted in his post # 1051 you can fill the claim form in Urdu then of course the sky is the limit :)

How bad can rubber prices get.

Rubber dealers plan an indefinite strike
Mar 11, 2015, 12.46AM IST TNN

KOTTAYAM: Rubber dealers have stopped buying RSS 4 grade rubber from farmers starting Tuesday. The Indian Rubber Dealers Federation (IRDF) has also announced an indefinite closure of their establishments from March 17.

Dealers had observed a token strike on Monday by closing down their shops. According to Jose Mambarambil, general secretray, IRDF, the dealers are forced to strike after the tyre manufacturers stopped buying rubber from the dealers. Due to this situation, the dealers are not in a position to buy rubber from the farmers, he said.

"If the tyre manufacturers are not ready to buy rubber immediately, we will go on an indefinite strike from March 17 onwards by closing down our shops. The federation blamed the trye manufacturers for not buying rubber leaving the dealers and farmers in the state in dire straits.

When the price of rubber slumped and appeared to go below Rs 100, the Kerala government in December, 2014 had got 12 leading tyre companies to agree to buy natural rubber from the local market at 25 pc extra price, till March 31. Based on the package, the rubber board announced the price of rubber on a daily basis. However, the tyre manufacturers stopped buying rubber from the dealers for over a month leaving the local market in the lurch.

Meanwhile, the steady fall in price of rubber in the international market has been a matter of great concern for the farmers and dealers here.

On Tuesday, the price in the Bangkok market was Rs 111.23 whereas the price declared by the Rubber Board was Rs 134.15.

Whats your expert opinion on this article Jim? ,Another "Rice scheme" or what? Govt turns rubber broker | Bangkok Post: business

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Originally Posted by piwanoi

Whats your expert opinion on this article Jim? ,Another "Rice scheme" or what? Govt turns rubber broker | Bangkok Post: business

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Governments talk, all smoke and mirrors, buyers set the price over all.
India is a bit different in that they are major tire producers and use more rubber then they produce, so in theory they can limit or tax imports, which they do.
Devil is in the detail though, import taxes are less then the local producers taxes, so imported rubber on paper is dearer, but in reality local taxes make locally produced rubber more expensive.
Like most governments they talk for the people, but act for big business.

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up - Thai PBS English News

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Originally Posted by boloa

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up - Thai PBS English News

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It's things like this that seem at odds to the free market, it's nothing to do with supply and demand.
If everyone parked up, the roads were empty, car manufacturers had stopped production, yes no need for the rubber.
That's not happened, so there must be other factors at play, market manipulation on a global scale.
Everyone must be clearing their stock reserves of rubber and products, to me that's strange, unless these multinational companies know something.
My bet, same as last year, 2009 GFC melt down, can't see any other reason.
No use Goodyear etc selling off their stocks, then not being able to supply demand, unless they think there will be little or no demand soon.

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

unless they think there will be little or no demand soon.

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The global trade numbers suggest a deepening of the current recession, IMHO. The companies are, as you say, not planning for any increase in the next year or so and consequently, are not stockpiling rubber - even at today's depressed prices.

Buying back their shares on the global stock markets with the "saved" moneys increases their share prices. Which has an immediate, quarterly, affect on the management bonuses.

Every company wants to be the last man standing, at which point they can buy up their competitors for peanuts. The production food chain is no concern for them, at all - ever.

My suggestion is to budget accordingly and make the family aware of difficult times acoming honey.

The projected rubber price is flat until 2020"s. Abundant stocks and supplies. To bad you can't grow apple i-phones?

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Originally Posted by ltnt

The projected rubber price is flat until 2020"s. Abundant stocks and supplies. To bad you can't grow apple i-phones?

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But there isn't abundant stocks anymore and supply is dropping fast.
No one is going to produce rubber for less then cost for long.
It's not just the farmers stopping tapping, rubber needs processed into usable rubber grades, the stuff out of the tree has a very short life, it needs processed before it can be shipped and used.
It's those large processing company buyers that buy at places like Buri ram, but if they don't buy they don't produce, they aren't going to continue producing at a loss.
End result, there will be no rubber for sale on the market, guess the tire/rubber company that can hold out the longest is the winner.
Same for the big Thai rubber houses, the ones that stays open win.

Perhaps looking at it like oil is easier, when the price of pumping is less then the sale price, stop pumping.
Next the rubber processors are like the oil refineries, when the price of buying and refining is less then the sale price, you stop refining.

The price of oil and rubber is not being set by actual production costs, but by market sentiment and manipulation, an engineered crash.
All commodities have crashed, oil, iron ore, copper etc but the crash in oil, rubber and a few others is not lead by a crash in demand.
Oil they turned up the pumps, increased supply, rubber they talked about a supply increase, but surplus is now an under-supply, they turned off the pumps [trees] and are closing the refineries [rubber processing factories]

During the great depression there was a yank, who looked at the situation, he said it can't last for ever, what will boom when it's over.
He took what money he had and invested in rubber in South America and factories [tire etc in the US] all at bankruptcy prices.
Depression ended, within a short time he was a billionaire, the time of cars had come.

Rubbers not dead, now would be the time to invest, the bigger the bust, the bigger the boom.
Just got to hold on, not be the one that dies by the side of the road, when is the question, not if a world recovery starts.
Think the world has not bottomed out yet, worse to come, but the end of world growth has not gone forever.

Big wedding party next door tonight, 100s of guests, free beer for me, so today's OK.

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

But there isn't abundant stocks anymore and supply is dropping fast.

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Tell that to the Thai Government...they can't get rid of their stocks. BTW, with oil at half price the residuals ie: synthetic rubber is in plenty of supply at a pretty cheap price. It doesn't take a market long to realize that consumers don't care how or what their tires are made from...next to go will be palm oil. Record lows for all things hydo-carbon.

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

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Originally Posted by boloa

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up - Thai PBS English News

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It's things like this that seem at odds to the free market, it's nothing to do with supply and demand.
If everyone parked up, the roads were empty, car manufacturers had stopped production, yes no need for the rubber.
That's not happened, so there must be other factors at play, market manipulation on a global scale.
Everyone must be clearing their stock reserves of rubber and products, to me that's strange, unless these multinational companies know something.
My bet, same as last year, 2009 GFC melt down, can't see any other reason.
No use Goodyear etc selling off their stocks, then not being able to supply demand, unless they think there will be little or no demand soon.

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Did you miss this part, Jim?

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It was reported that traders or rubber farmers were reluctant to participate in the auction because they believed that they would not get good prices. Earlier, they were offered prices 8-10 baht per kilogramme above market prices but, this time, the prices expected to be on par with market prices.

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Originally Posted by Neverna

Did you miss this part, Jim?

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It was reported that traders or rubber farmers were reluctant to participate in the auction because they believed that they would not get good prices. Earlier, they were offered prices 8-10 baht per kilogramme above market prices but, this time, the prices expected to be on par with market prices.
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Don't really understand what that's supposed to mean, if they farmers were reluctant to participate, so they didn't bring their rubber, ergo no rubber to sell.
The buyers were only ever going to pay the market price, not 8 to 10 baht above, the scheme was to cut out middlemen so farmers got the higher price the the middlemen got. Price dropped, buyers by from the cheapest supplier, but in this case no one wanted the rubber at any price, or so we are told.

itnt, no matter how cheap synthetic rubber is it can only replace about 15% of the rubber in tires.

Thai government has sold loads of rubber to China in sweetheart deals, guessing over a million M/Ts.

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

itnt, no matter how cheap synthetic rubber is it can only replace about 15% of the rubber in tires.

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You forget, Refiners simply open the valve to the synthetic stream a bit wider Jimmy.

Even give away's to China won't help the prices. In fact its very damaging...counter production. If Thailand wanted to do its rubber industry a favor, they'd burn their surplus stockpiles. Same with their rice. They are taking huge losses as it is, why not just suck it up and dump it. China would, make no mistake about them.

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Originally Posted by ltnt

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

itnt, no matter how cheap synthetic rubber is it can only replace about 15% of the rubber in tires.

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You forget, Refiners simply open the valve to the synthetic stream a bit wider Jimmy.

Even give away's to China won't help the prices. In fact its very damaging...counter production. If Thailand wanted to do its rubber industry a favor, they'd burn their surplus stockpiles. Same with their rice. They are taking huge losses as it is, why not just suck it up and dump it. China would, make no mistake about them.

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makes no difference how open the refinery valves are, drive on synthetic tires and you need a new set every few 1000 KM.

As to China and sweetheart deals with Thailand, it's all about a few making the big money, not the farmers or smaller players.
To be honest, I don't believe Thailand actually has big warehouses full of rubber, that rubber has already been sold to China in some back door deal.

Got to remember all this rubber has a limited shelf life, about a year, several years ago the 3 nation rubber group set up stockpiling to support prices.
All that rubber is well pasted it's use by date, it's either been all sold or they burnt it in secret, my bet sold cheap at taxpayers expense.
A scheme meant to support prices, probably had the opposite effect.

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Originally Posted by ltnt

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

itnt, no matter how cheap synthetic rubber is it can only replace about 15% of the rubber in tires.

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You forget, Refiners simply open the valve to the synthetic stream a bit wider Jimmy.

Even give away's to China won't help the prices. In fact its very damaging...counter production. If Thailand wanted to do its rubber industry a favor, they'd burn their surplus stockpiles. Same with their rice. They are taking huge losses as it is, why not just suck it up and dump it. China would, make no mistake about them.

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Gotta agree Itnt ,forget this stupid "face" thing , no sense in keep subsidizing failure ,just to get grubby votes from a populace who believes in Father Christmas , the billions lost through the so called "Rice Scam" proves this beyond any reasonable doubt ,that is for those who's cranium has not got coconut tendencies (only water inside ):smileylaughing:

I would suggest that those who believe that Subsidizing agriculture really works for the benefit of all ,read about the total disaster called the CAP :rofl:Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) | European Crop Protection Association

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Originally Posted by piwanoi

I would suggest that those who believe that Subsidizing agriculture really works for the benefit of all ,read about the total disaster called the CAP :rofl:Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) | European Crop Protection Association

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I'd be in great agreement with statement and link above.

Thanks, Pi...

:)

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Originally Posted by jamescollister

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Originally Posted by Neverna

Did you miss this part, Jim?

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It was reported that traders or rubber farmers were reluctant to participate in the auction because they believed that they would not get good prices. Earlier, they were offered prices 8-10 baht per kilogramme above market prices but, this time, the prices expected to be on par with market prices.
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Don't really understand what that's supposed to mean, if they farmers were reluctant to participate, so they didn't bring their rubber, ergo no rubber to sell.
The buyers were only ever going to pay the market price, not 8 to 10 baht above, the scheme was to cut out middlemen so farmers got the higher price the the middlemen got. Price dropped, buyers by from the cheapest supplier, but in this case no one wanted the rubber at any price, or so we are told.

itnt, no matter how cheap synthetic rubber is it can only replace about 15% of the rubber in tires.

Thai government has sold loads of rubber to China in sweetheart deals, guessing over a million M/Ts.

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Jim, the part I focussed on was that the sellers didn't show up. No rubber to sell = no rubber to buy.

In the USA farmer's are paid not to plant...reason: over production of specific crops and Land Bank. Saving the soil.

Thailand's farmers are simply burning itself up in more ways than subsidies.

In a quality tire, ie aircraft, sports and racing cars, motorcycles 250cc and over, there is no synthetic rubber used, and it cannot be used.

^However for general purpose not a problem...:) what sells mostly? G.P.

Big, down pour today, first heavy rain of the year, checked the biggest plantation, leaves all back and dark green, high water table here, mountains nearby.
Normally would wait for Song Kran, but need the income, one more rain and if my tappers are still my tappers will open the trees.
So much for taking care of the trees, no fertilizer and open up early, but beggars can't be choosers.
May just make it through before it's sticky rice and frogs, fingers crossed.

Well James, for whatever it's worth I gotta 'big house' down south that is proving near impossible to rent, and absolutely impossible to sell, under the current political situation. We're doing short term holiday lets now, but there are no bookings at the moment. I'm lucky though- I've probably got another five years before it's sticky rice and frogs. Good times, bad times. Lets hope for better.

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Originally Posted by sabang

Well James, for whatever it's worth I gotta 'big house' down south that is proving near impossible to rent, and absolutely impossible to sell, under the current political situation. We're doing short term holiday lets now, but there are no bookings at the moment. I'm lucky though- I've probably got another five years before it's sticky rice and frogs. Good times, bad times. Lets hope for better.

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Strange wold at times, BIL and wife plus kid are back living with us, her family are rich in western standards.
Bought her a 5 mil Baht house in Krabi, pay for 2 new cars, only grand daughter, but BIL wants the jungle, hates Krabi.
Think we may swap homes for awhile.

Got to say a hammock and a rifle living in the jungle ain't that bad, if there is a life to return to.

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Originally Posted by sabang

Well James, for whatever it's worth I gotta 'big house' down south that is proving near impossible to rent, and absolutely impossible to sell, under the current political situation. We're doing short term holiday lets now, but there are no bookings at the moment. I'm lucky though- I've probably got another five years before it's sticky rice and frogs. Good times, bad times. Lets hope for better.

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Is your house priced to sell in the current market, hand on heart you know it's not, hence it's not sold and not likely to be unless you get bloody lucky and find someone who doesn't know the state of the current market. OK you're lucky in that you don't need to sell or have a mortgage on it, but many Thai's put a price on something that bears no resemblance to the current market and won't sell it for less and seem happy to end up losing it rather than selling it for market price, maybe a face thing, who knows. Good luck anyway.

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Originally Posted by buriramboy

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Originally Posted by sabang

Well James, for whatever it's worth I gotta 'big house' down south that is proving near impossible to rent, and absolutely impossible to sell, under the current political situation. We're doing short term holiday lets now, but there are no bookings at the moment. I'm lucky though- I've probably got another five years before it's sticky rice and frogs. Good times, bad times. Lets hope for better.

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Is your house priced to sell in the current market, hand on heart you know it's not, hence it's not sold and not likely to be unless you get bloody lucky and find someone who doesn't know the state of the current market. OK you're lucky in that you don't need to sell or have a mortgage on it, but many Thai's put a price on something that bears no resemblance to the current market and won't sell it for less and seem happy to end up losing it rather than selling it for market price, maybe a face thing, who knows. Good luck anyway.

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Quite true ,As the old adage goes " 70% of something is far better than 100% of fuck all":)

^70% of nothing is still nothing...