Thread: Man Attempts to Set Off Explosives on Northwest Airlines Plane

Nobody has said it but the increased security has done little or nothing to enhance security. Have the enhanced checks actually weeded out a terrorists? Not that I am aware of. Do terrorists still manage to get on planes? That question answers itself. Governments are attempting to stop people bringing dangerous materials or explosive devices aboard an aircraft yet a well known American security expert while passing through Washington Dulles airport was able to find enough materials to make an incendiary device airside! Personally I think those in authority, particularly America and Britain which has a habit of being the US president's poodle are looking for the ultimate solution in the prevention of terrorism which of course doesn't exist. Even if you keep terrorist off of planes they will simply go somewhere else so what next?

The real issue is that of intelligence which has only briefly been touched on in this thread; knowing who these people are and where they are moreover what there intentions are. Although I acknowledge that is easier said than done. Anybody agree disagree?

Hey WhiteKnight

Airport security has its merits. This case gives some proof. With no strict security he just could have walked in with a bomb ready assembled in his handluggage or on his body. That bomb would most likely not have failed.

There was some talk about electronic sniffers which can detect explosives. I would like to see them developed and fielded at airports. They would do more for safety than body scanners.

But because there will never be 100% safety we should not go overboard with additional inconvenience for the traveller.

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

Nobody has said it but the increased security has done little or nothing to enhance security. Have the enhanced checks actually weeded out a terrorists? Not that I am aware of. Do terrorists still manage to get on planes? That question answers itself. Governments are attempting to stop people bringing dangerous materials or explosive devices aboard an aircraft yet a well known American security expert while passing through Washington Dulles airport was able to find enough materials to make an incendiary device airside! Personally I think those in authority, particularly America and Britain which has a habit of being the US president's poodle are looking for the ultimate solution in the prevention of terrorism which of course doesn't exist. Even if you keep terrorist off of planes they will simply go somewhere else so what next?

The real issue is that of intelligence which has only briefly been touched on in this thread; knowing who these people are and where they are moreover what there intentions are. Although I acknowledge that is easier said than done. Anybody agree disagree?

Good points, but some security is better than none. Can't see the billions spent on sniffers at friendly airports worth more than a dime, since the peacelovers could simply board at a more security-friendly airport. And anyway, sniffers won't pick up on harmless household items that could be combined to create explosive/incendiary devices.

Worth noting also that defensive wars can only be lost, which is doubly underlined when the defender can't or won't recognise its enemy.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Hey WhiteKnight

Airport security has its merits. This case gives some proof. With no strict security he just could have walked in with a bomb ready assembled in his handluggage or on his body. That bomb would most likely not have failed.

I think you missed the point of what I was saying; no matter what security procedures are put in place there will always be people and means to rumble it and that includes whatever technology is put in place. No matter how good security is procedures and methods ultimately become known. Consider this; the terrorists know the procedures are in place and will work at getting round them while the security personnel spend most of their time concentrating on the innocent. There is no perfect system and you cannot provide 100% security. Think of airport terminal buildings for example.

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

I think you missed the point of what I was saying; no matter what security procedures are put in place there will always be people and means to rumble it and that includes whatever technology is put in place.

I did not miss it and I agreed with it by saying

But because there will never be 100% safety we should not go overboard with additional inconvenience for the traveller.

Officials: Somali Tried to Board Flight With Explosives Last Month

Wednesday, December 30, 2009
Associated Press

MOGADISHU, Somalia — A man tried to board a commercial airliner in Mogadishu last month carrying powdered chemicals, liquid and a syringe that could have caused an explosion in a case bearing chilling similarities to the terrorist plot to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner, officials told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

The Somali man — whose name has not yet been released — was arrested by African Union peacekeeping troops before the Nov. 13 Daallo Airlines flight took off. It had been scheduled to travel from Mogadishu to the northern Somali city of Hargeisa, then to Djibouti and Dubai. A Somali police spokesman, Abdulahi Hassan Barise, said the suspect is in Somali custody.

"We don't know whether he's linked with al-Qaida or other foreign organizations, but his actions were the acts of a terrorist. We caught him red-handed," said Barise.

A Nairobi-based diplomat said the incident in Somalia is similar to the attempted attack on the Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day in that the Somali man had a syringe, a bag of powdered chemicals and liquid — tools similar to those used in the Detroit attack. The diplomat spoke on condition he not be identified because he isn't authorized to release the information.

Barigye Bahoku, the spokesman for the African Union military force in Mogadishu, said the chemicals from the Somali suspect could have caused an explosion that would have caused air decompression inside the plane. However, Bahoku said he doesn't believe an explosion would have brought the plane down.

A second international official familiar with the incident, also speaking on condition of anonymity because he isn't authorized to discuss the case, confirmed that the substances carried by the Somali passenger could have been used as an explosive device.

In the Detroit case, alleged attacker Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab hid explosive PETN in a condom or condom-like bag just below his torso when he traveled from Amsterdam to Detroit. Like the captured Somali, Abdulmutallab also had a syringe filled with liquid. The substances seized from the Somali passenger are being tested.

The November incident garnered little attention before the Dec. 25 attack aboard a flight on final approach to Detroit. U.S. officials have now learned of the Somali case and are hastening to investigate any possible links between it and the Detroit attack, though no officials would speak on the record about the probe.

U.S. investigators said Abdulmutallab told them he received training and instructions from al-Qaida operatives in Yemen — which lies across the Gulf of Aden from Somalia. Similarly, large swaths of Somalia are controlled by an insurgent group, al-Shabab, which has ties to al-Qaida.

Western officials say many of the hundreds of foreign jihadi fighters in Somalia come in small boats across the Gulf of Aden from Yemen. The officials also say that examination of equipment used in some Somali suicide attacks leads them to believe it was originally assembled in Yemen.

Law enforcement officials believe the suspect in the Detroit incident tried to ignite a two-part concoction of the high explosive PETN and possibly a glycol-based liquid explosive, setting off popping, smoke and some fire but no deadly detonation. Abdulmutallab, a Nigerian national, is charged with trying to destroy an aircraft.

A Somali security official involved in the capture of the suspect in Mogadishu said he had a 2.2-pound package of chemical powder and a container of liquid chemicals. The security official said the suspect was the last passenger to try to board.

Once security officials detected the powder chemicals and syringe, the suspect tried to bribe the security team that detained him, the Somali security official said. The security official said the suspect had a white shampoo bottle with a black acid-like substance in it. He also had a clear plastic bag with a light green chalky substance and a syringe containing a green liquid. The security official spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to release the information.

The powdered material had the strong scent of ammonia, Bahoku said, and samples have been sent to London for testing.

The Somali security officials said the Daallo Airlines flight was scheduled to go from Mogadishu to Hargeisa, to Djibouti and then to Dubai.

A spokeswoman for Daallo Airlines said that company officials weren't aware of the incident and would have to seek more information before commenting. Daallo Airlines is based in Dubai and has offices in Djibouti and France.


Officials: Somali Tried to Board Flight With Explosives Last Month - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

Another Misunderstander of Islam. Let's hope he waives his rights to remain silent, to have a solicitor present, and to be mollycoddled as the former flower picker he undoubtedly was before connecting with the most evil ideology in the history of Man.

Yup, pointless defending the walls whilst allowing the enemy to watch your back.

Toasted Al-Quaeda Undies? - Timely toasted topical appetizers for New Year's Eve 2009

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Amsterdam has the new fully body scanners, the operator obviously wasn't paying attention or perhaps the thing really isn't that good.
Or perhaps he or she operating the machine thought this POS had a huge Johnson...

he is Black after all...

Ahem, according to the UK news he never passed through it, just why I don't know. Mind you I am wondering what they would ask you when they spot something unusual... I'll let the jokers here have some fun with that one.

Originally Posted by keda

The goal of Islamic terror is not just to kill the infidel, but as you say to spread fear and cause us to freak out and continue to self-limit our freedoms. Fmm, that's working well.

This is the one point so frequently overlooked; the more we implement security systems and alienate Muslims then the more the terrorist win.

One of the best and simplistic devices for sniffing out explosives and drugs on the body, is the DOG.

However this offends a minority, mainly muslims.

If my family is made safer by the use of dogs, and it offends the minority, then i do not have any problems with causing a minor upset.

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

Originally Posted by keda

The goal of Islamic terror is not just to kill the infidel, but as you say to spread fear and cause us to freak out and continue to self-limit our freedoms. Fmm, that's working well.

This is the one point so frequently overlooked; the more we implement security systems and alienate Muslims then the more the terrorist win.

Well, “If fighting terrorists creates terrorists, surely being an endless hypocritical scold about waterboarding creates Dick Cheneys.”

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Also, Seventy-one percent (71%) of all voters think the attempt by the Nigerian Muslim to blow up the airliner as it landed in Detroit should be investigated by military authorities as a terrorist act. Only 22% say it should be handled by civilian authorities as a criminal act, as is currently the case. The debate is over - Dick Cheney won it.

How did the Bush admin handle Richard Reid, aka the shoe-bomber?

I think he was tried as a common criminal and is currently serving a lot of time in a Federal supermax without chance of parole.

Why is Cheney changing his mind now?

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

The real issue is that of intelligence which has only briefly been touched on in this thread; knowing who these people are and where they are moreover what there intentions are. Although I acknowledge that is easier said than done. Anybody agree disagree?

One problem with relying on shared intelligence to deter such attacks is that such information is a "trailing indicator" (to use an economics term). Terrorists will simply use new recruits without suspicious backgrounds. Unfortunately, young and willing Muslim recruits are plentiful and trainable. As far as scanning technology, it's powerless against new technologies and new combinations of dangerous substances that are constantly being devised. So if the political dynamics don't change, what is the West left with to protect air travel? It's inevitable that ethnic and religious profiling will be needed. Eventually, Westerners will gladly swap constitutional freedoms for the ability to fly without danger and emotional trauma. Young Muslims of Middle Eastern and African descent will have every orifice and personal belonging scrutinized before boarding international flights in and out of North America and Western Europe. It won't stop every breach but it will shift the odds against the terrorists. A shift in public sentiment toward profiling will happen after a few successful acts of carnage and the use of this sort of profiling to supplement current security measures is inevitable.

Nice one Goo. Maybe they will try & blow up some gigantic Carnival Cruise Liner. Since we aren't really focused on that.

Originally Posted by dotcom

I'm assuming Maudib is a Muslim. If he is he knows what the root cause is. Palestine.

My first laugh of the new year. Thanks for that.


/you are an idiot. Meet him before you call him out

just another fucking muslim lucky it was in amerika he will die in jail they will never let him out

The Israelis think North Americans are dumb when it comes to security at airports. The record speaks for itself. Of course, getting the bureaucrats to upend their concept of security completely, plus hiring, training, and the willingness to pay competent people rather than trying to rely on machinery would get in the way of making the sorts of changes to achieve the kind of system described in this article: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother - thestar.com

Originally Posted by GooMaiRoo

One problem with relying on shared intelligence to deter such attacks is that such information is a "trailing indicator" (to use an economics term). Terrorists will simply use new recruits without suspicious backgrounds. Unfortunately, young and willing Muslim recruits are plentiful and trainable. As far as scanning technology, it's powerless against new technologies and new combinations of dangerous substances that are constantly being devised. So if the political dynamics don't change, what is the West left with to protect air travel? It's inevitable that ethnic and religious profiling will be needed. Eventually, Westerners will gladly swap constitutional freedoms for the ability to fly without danger and emotional trauma. Young Muslims of Middle Eastern and African descent will have every orifice and personal belonging scrutinized before boarding international flights in and out of North America and Western Europe. It won't stop every breach but it will shift the odds against the terrorists. A shift in public sentiment toward profiling will happen after a few successful acts of carnage and the use of this sort of profiling to supplement current security measures is inevitable.

Sounds to me that you have an issue with people who happen to be Muslim since some of their recruits are other demoninations. Intelligence is the key since part of it's function is to watch for the for the situation you describe.

Originally Posted by robuzo

The Israelis think North Americans are dumb when it comes to security at airports. The record speaks for itself. Of course, getting the bureaucrats to upend their concept of security completely, plus hiring, training, and the willingness to pay competent people rather than trying to rely on machinery would get in the way of making the sorts of changes to achieve the kind of system described in this article: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother - thestar.com

That article is fantastic, thank you for citing it. Yes, security can be thorough and not be a complete pain in the butt. It's the over acting by security clowns that causes so much disruption every time something happens. Israel seems to understand that the purpose of terrorism is to weaken society through disruption, and unlike the Americans they are smart enough not to play along.