Thread: Crime vs. Punishment - Has Justice Been Served?

[QUOTE=headhunter;3987715]as this is nothing to do with this story,[/QUOTE

Well, it fits the "thread". But, who is responsible for the inmates parole and what standards do they use. Arguably the US has the harshest incarceration protocols. Perhaps the perp was released early as a result of "good behavior" and "overcrowding".

Who do you feel is responsible for this "travesty"?

As a Kid growing up in a mountain farming area we had numerous feral cats. While most of the time I would shoot them with my .22 and bury them as there was no way to really control them as people just let them go. Numerous times when a mother was giving birth I took them as they were basically being born, put them in a burlap sack with a rock and would drop them them in the river. They really never opened there eyes and that was the humane why to control them. They ended up being Crayfish food.

This lady should have just euthanized them and buried them. Tossing them in a dumpster was not the best avenue. Should she do a year in jail for it... Come on. Really? Community service working at a local SPCA for a year is more practical. That way there is no cost to the US tax payers supporting her in jail and she does not end up now yet another jail bird released back to society with a PO.

On a side note, I am always amazed how people go bozo over someone killing an dog or a cat just because they have become domesticated and deemed a pet.

Originally Posted by bowie

Unfortunately in the US our judicial system seems all to accepting of playing the blame game and "forgiving" a transgressor provided we can find something to "blame" the transgression on, such as "mental unbalance" or perhaps a "troubled childhood", etc.

Originally Posted by bowie

Arguably the US has the harshest incarceration protocols

You seem a bit confused over which point you're trying to make.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

On a side note, I am always amazed how people go bozo over someone killing an dog or a cat just because they have become domesticated and deemed a pet.

For the most part I don't think they go bozo over the euthanasia - I believe their affront is about the perceived lack of compassion. After all, I wouldn't do such a heinous act.

Now, where I came from in the States - No Stray Dogs - yet, lots and lots of stray cats - and, a few cat ladies that feed 'em. Neighbor called to complain to animal control - was told they don't do cats 'cause they don't have a cat trap. Yup, the formal answer given to a resident taxpayer. These same animal control folk knocked on my door demanding proof of my dogs license.

$6 for a spayed female at the time - $25 fine for no license. License required proof of rabies vaccination. I think that ran about $50.


Now to Thailand - see many strays? Rabies? Licensing? Year's jail term for animal abuse?

What is right, which is the way to go?

In the book "Bangkok, the story of a city" the author Alec Waugh noticed: if you had thrown a stone in the old Bangkok it always will hit either a dog or a monk or a prince....

Well its how people euthanize them. There are far too many people that forget they are an animal. I absolutely do not condone any sort of animal abuse or cruelty. They should be euthanized in a proper fashion. I have shot many a wild dog growing up. They get in packs and become extremely destructive and dangerous. Honestly I think where one lives will have a huge impact on the reaction. City people with toy dogs and small house dogs seem to scream the most. Country folks say...whatever and can't believe it made news..

Again, dumping them in a dumpster was unacceptable. but jail time for it..... What a joke. But all the tree huggers feel like justice was served. But like I said, They are not smart enough to realize they are paying for it.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

always will hit either a dog

The strays are everywhere... everywhere, everywhere...

hmm... the result - rabies outbreaks - cause and effect

Originally Posted by JPPR2

that was the humane why to control them.

just euthanized them

Use nice words for cruel practices if it makes you feel better, an old Nazi trick...

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Use nice words for cruel practices if it makes you feel better, an old Nazi trick...

So BB, what is your recommendation and neuter and spay cannot be an answer as most pet owners typically won't and don't do it. Is your belief just let them continue to breed, produce endless offspring every 3 to 4 months a responsible response?

38 other animals in her house? Definitely a screw lose. She was wrong to dump them, but a year in jail seems counter productive

There is still a chance that the woman will be acquitted like recently the Navy SEAL Eddie Galagher...



(However, few months for "trophy photo" will teach him...)

Well, really don't know there.

Gallagher was found not guilty of first degree murder and attempted murder while serving in combat in a war zone, while, Culwell pled guilty to throwing seven live puppies in a dumpster.

Yup, these two incidents are certainly a case of comparing apples-to-apples.

Originally Posted by bowie

in combat in a war zone,

Witnesses: Eddie Gallagher shot civilians in Iraq



SAN DIEGO — Two Navy SEALs testified Friday that their platoon chief gunned down a young girl and an old man in Iraq in 2017 from his sniper’s perch, though neither witnessed him pulling the trigger.

The SEALs said shots came from the tower where Special Warfare Operator Chief Edward “Eddie” Gallagher was posted and they watched through their scopes as the civilians fell to the ground.

Dalton Tolbert said he and another sniper were in a neighboring tower in Mosul on June 18, 2017, and had fired warnings shots to scatter civilians by the Tigris River because the Islamic State was operating in the area.

An old man in a white tunic began running and then Tolbert heard a third shot come from the neighboring tower where Gallagher was positioned and saw the man fall.

Over the radio, he heard Gallagher say: "You guys missed him, but I got him."

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...lians-in-iraq/

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Witnesses: Eddie Gallagher shot civilians in Iraq



SAN DIEGO — Two Navy SEALs testified Friday that their platoon chief gunned down a young girl and an old man in Iraq in 2017 from his sniper’s perch, though neither witnessed him pulling the trigger.

The SEALs said shots came from the tower where Special Warfare Operator Chief Edward “Eddie” Gallagher was posted and they watched through their scopes as the civilians fell to the ground.

Dalton Tolbert said he and another sniper were in a neighboring tower in Mosul on June 18, 2017, and had fired warnings shots to scatter civilians by the Tigris River because the Islamic State was operating in the area.

An old man in a white tunic began running and then Tolbert heard a third shot come from the neighboring tower where Gallagher was positioned and saw the man fall.

Over the radio, he heard Gallagher say: "You guys missed him, but I got him."

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...lians-in-iraq/

.....and perfectly acceptable by those traditional warlike cultures, whom unconsciously romance and champion militarism.
Charming.

The trial is over. SWO Chief Gallagher was found Not Guilty of First Degree Murder and Attempted Murder. Case Closed. The Fat Lady Has Sung.

Originally Posted by bowie

Case Closed

Jeffrey E.: suicide. Case closed...

Originally Posted by bowie

The trial is over. SWO Chief Gallagher was found Not Guilty of First Degree Murder and Attempted Murder. Case Closed. The Fat Lady Has Sung.

Except it's not. It's not 'case closed' and is certainly worth further discussion. The duplicity in how soldiers in war act is quite amazing, murdering civilians isn't part of war for 'civilised' nations

How easy we succumb to highly manufactured political/social identities....

Originally Posted by panama hat

worth further discussion

Now, concerning the trial of SWO Chief Gallagher which is uhm… “worth further discussion”, below is some factual data… not the crap printed in tabloids (and yes, the Navy Times is a tabloid).

A two-week trial was conducted. It was a Military Courts Martial. A jury of seven service members heard ALL the evidence concerning all ten charges and thirteen counts.

The jury heard ALL of the evidence in the case, including but not limited to; the testimony of fourteen witnesses, including their cross-examinations, the prosecuting attorney’s presentations and advocacy, the defense attorney’s presentations and advocacy, along with the presiding judge’s instructions.

The prosecuting attorneys presented 14 witnesses in six days.

The jury deliberated less than nine hours (that’s pretty damn quick concerning the number of charges, the seriousness of the charges and the amount of evidence presented).

The Charges
Article 80:Attempted Murder
Article 118:Premeditated Murder
Article 128:Aggravated Assault with a Dangerous Weapon x2 on non-combatants
Article 134:Firearm, discharging-willfully, under such circumstances as to endanger human life at non-combatants
Article 134:Obstructing Justice (three counts)
Article 134:Wrongfully pose for an unofficial picture with a human casualty
Article 134:Wrongfully complete reenlistment ceremony next to a human casualty
Article 134:Wrongfully Operate a drone over a human casualt
Article 112a:Wrongful Use of a Controlled Substance – Tramadol Hydrochloride
Article 112a:Unlawful Possession of a Controlled Substance – Sustanon-250

Gallagher was acquitted on six of seven charges on July 2, 2019; the jury found him guilty of the seventh charge, of "wrongfully posing for an unofficial picture with a human casualty". That charge carried a maximum prison sentence of four months. Since Gallagher had already served more time in jail than the sentence, he was released.


And, to provide further information on this trial - the prosecuting team received awards and commendations for their performance and the case they presented - regardless of the outcome of their efforts:

The Navy's Region Legal Service Office in San Diego hosted an award ceremony on July 10 in one of its courtrooms for four attorneys and four legal support staffers involved in the Gallagher case.

The prosecution team all received Navy Achievement Medals, which "commended the trial teams' 'exceptional witness preparation,' 'expert litigation on constitutional issues,' and 'superb results,'" the motion said, apparently quoting from the award citations.

The motion also claimed that the RLSO Chief of Staff said words to the effect of "no matter the result, we were right to prosecute [Gallagher]," and "justice was done."


So, forgive me for siding with the seven jurors who heard ALL THE EVIDENCE concerning this case. I will guarantee that they took this task, deciding the fate of another human being, as the most important job they have ever undertaken.

I agree with their interpretation of the law – they heard ALL the evidence and decided the case based on the evidence and the law.

Yes. Worth further discussion. Why would you not agree with this?

The following is clearly a joke:

"And, to provide further information on this trial - the prosecuting team received awards and commendations for their performance and the case they presented - regardless of the outcome of their efforts:

The Navy's Region Legal Service Office in San Diego hosted an award ceremony on July 10 in one of its courtrooms for four attorneys and four legal support staffers involved in the Gallagher case.

The prosecution team all received Navy Achievement Medals, which "commended the trial teams' 'exceptional witness preparation,' 'expert litigation on constitutional issues,' and 'superb results,'" the motion said, apparently quoting from the award citations."

A closed shop, typical American judge, jury, executioner (and prosecution and defence) . . . but you may believe that he is innocent. Many do not.

[QUOTE=bowie;3987747]

Originally Posted by headhunter

as this is nothing to do with this story,[/QUOTE

Well, it fits the "thread". But, who is responsible for the inmates parole and what standards do they use. Arguably the US has the harshest incarceration protocols. Perhaps the perp was released early as a result of "good behavior" and "overcrowding".

Who do you feel is responsible for this "travesty"?

for a society that feels fk.all when they dump new born kids in trash bins or feeds them toilet cleaner,maybe this lady should have got 5yrs.
mans best friend is his dog,as for the treatment this evil bar stool should the same then jail.
HH.DOG LOVER.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Worth further discussion. Why would you not agree with this?

Discussion provides naught. The case is closed. The Fat Lady Has Sung.

US Criminal Justice System provides protection under the Double Jeopardy Provisions. So, for these "allegations" SWO Chief Gallagher has been found "Not Guilty" and cannot be tried again.

Interesting point though, if he had been first been tried and found not guilty in a civilian court, he could still be tried under the UCMJ.

Originally Posted by headhunter

maybe this lady should have got 5yrs.
mans best friend is his dog,as for the treatment this evil bar stool should the same then jail.
HH.DOG LOVER.

HH - where ya been? Figured you'd be one of the first to chime in on this uhm... "woman". Thanks for chiming in.

Although, this "woman" need professional psychiatric help. Her hoarding of 38 pooches shows a "care for" side, her disposal in the trash of puppies shows an "abuse side".

She needs a doctor, not a jail cell.