Thread: Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance

"Regarding the dead guinea pigs and the malnourished cat, it is said unofficially that they were taken to the Porton Down facility and incinerated there," a spokesperson said. "But it remains unclear if their remains were ever tested for toxic substances, which would constitute useful evidence, and if not, why such a decision was made."

Killing the innocent pets (and not pay for their cremation), who will wonder that we have expelled their diplomats?

The Putin girls choir scrabble to find excuses yet again....

Russia has vetoed a proposal to set up an investigation into chemical weapons use in Syria.
The US-drafted UN resolution would have established a new body to determine whether Syria was responsible for a chemical attack in Douma last week which killed 70 people.
This is the 12th time Russia has used its veto power at the council to block action targeting Syria.

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ve...quiry-11325688

Originally Posted by lom

No Harry, what stinks is you having your blinders on and jumping to conclusions trying to join dots which aren't there and then create new dots as you go.
Wobbleheads like you aren't known for logical thinking skills..

Excuse me I don't believe it's your solo.

To anyone versed in how high-level, high-stakes diplomacy operates in the real world, it’s obvious that London is in possession of solid intelligence to back up its claim of Kremlin culpability in the March 4 attack. Theresa May’s insistence that Russian intelligence is to blame for the attack on the Skripals is the tell that the Brits know something important behind the scenes, the sort of highly classified information that can’t be shared with the public. But what?


Finally, we may have an answer to that vital question. Yesterday, The Express, a British tabloid, reported a bombshell: British spies on Cyprus had intercepted a series of secret Kremlin messages that were related to the assassination:


On the day of the poisonings, March 4, one was sent from a location near Damascus in Syria to “an official” in Moscow including the phrase “the package has been delivered” and saying that two individuals had “made a successful egress.” This prompted a young Flight Lieutenant to recall a separate message that had been intercepted and discounted on the previous day.


Furthermore, according to The Express, the secret messages were forwarded to Britain, where Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ, Britain’s NSA partner and equivalent) realized their significance and forwarded them to Prime Minister May. This explosive intelligence was also shared with the White House. Moreover, these top-secret intercepts were but one piece—albeit a crucial one—of the classified information London possesses about what happened in Salisbury.

So, to break this down, a British signals intelligence site in Cyprus intercepted a series of secret messages between Damascus and Moscow that seemed to indicate Russian foreknowledge and responsibility for what happened to Sergei and Yulia Skripal. But is any of this, well, true? Let’s discuss what we can confirm.

First, there really is a British SIGINT site in southern Cyprus, run by the British military for GCHQ, which currently goes by the euphemism Joint Service Signal Unit Cyprus. It has been there since the early days of the last Cold War, and over the last few decades it has provided a lot of useful intelligence for both GCHQ and NSA.


Second, thanks to its location, the Cyprus SIGINT site has good access to intelligence targets in the eastern Mediterranean, so its interception of Russian government communications—in this case, from one of Russia’s many spy bases around Damascus—is inherently plausible. Indeed, this is exactly the sort of high-value intelligence that Western SIGINT services look out for. Moreover, it’s very common in the espionage trade to intercept information, the importance of which only becomes clear a day or two after.

Therefore, we can conclude that The Express story has a ring of truth to it, and several friends inside the Five Eyes intelligence alliance have confirmed to me that it is true. There are also hints that other Western intelligence agencies intercepted Russian communications relevant to the Skripal hit, and those, likewise, have been shared with London and Washington.


British codebreakers are highly skilled, and this would hardly be the first time that London’s spies intercepted hush-hush foreign communications that changed the world. Back in early 1917, Royal Navy codebreakers got their hands on a bombshell secret German diplomatic cable—it would go down in history as the Zimmermann Telegram—which got the United States into the First World Warand altered the course of history. These more recent Cyprus intercepts may prove less earth-shaking, though the Kremlin’s official admission that we’re in Cold War 2.0 surely looms as a major historical event. Yet again, SIGINT has demonstrated why it has been the world’s most valuable intelligence source for more than a century.

https://teakdoor.com/world-news/18365...ritain-31.html (Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance)

Originally Posted by OhOh

An announcement from the Salisbury hospital. Given to the press on video and on paper. A formal piece of evidence for the Met to examine along with any interested parties.

A part of it:

"Following the incident on March 4, Salisbury District Hospital received three people who required inpatient care – Sergei and Yulia Skripal and DS Nick Bailey, who was discharged on March 22. All three had been exposed to a nerve agent – a highly toxic chemical which aims to prevent the nervous system from functioning. In the four weeks since the incident in the city centre, both have received round the clock care from our clinicians, who’ve been able to draw in advice and support from world leading experts in this field. We’ve been keeping you updated on the condition of Yulia and Sergei, whilst respecting the right to privacy to which they – and all our patients – are entitled.


While I won’t go into great detail about the treatment we’ve been providing,

I will say that nerve agents work by attaching themselves to a particular enzyme in the body which then stops the nerves from working properly. This results in symptoms such as sickness, hallucinations and confusion. Our job in treating the patients has been to stabilise them– ensuring that the patients could breathe and that blood could continue to circulate. We then needed to use a variety of different drugs to support the patients until they could create more enzymes to replace those affected by the poisoning. We also used specialised decontamination techniques to remove any residual toxins.


Both patients have responded exceptionally well to the treatment we’ve been providing. But equally, both patients are at different stages in their recovery.

Yulia has now been discharged from Salisbury District Hospital. Yulia has asked for privacy from the media and I want to reiterate that request. I also want to take this opportunity to wish Yulia well. This is not the end of her treatment, but marks a significant milestone."

https://www.england.nhs.uk/south/2018/04/10/updates-on-the-salisbury-incident-7/?filter-keyword=&filter-category=news

She states as facts:
1. Three patients exposed to "a nerve agent". One recovers in a few days after being admitted some hours after the "incident" . Two others, who were taken to the hospital within minutes, took a month or so to recover!

2. She states they were stabilised, put into a coma, for their own good. Two for weeks, one for a couple of days!

3. She will not go into great detail but then does so to reinforce a certain position. Nerve agent, a variety of unknown drugs and specialised techniques. She also states they were used to remove "residual Toxins".

Toxins are biological poisons, not chemical!

"toxin


A poison or noxious thing produced by animals, plants, or bacteria. See Amatoxin, Anaphylatoxin, Bacterial toxin, Batrachotoxin, Biotoxin, Botulinum toxin, Bungarotoxin, Coley's toxin, Endotoxin, Exotoxin, Heat-stable toxin, Immunotoxin, Lethal toxin, Middle molecule toxin, Neurotoxin, Phallotoxin, Picrotoxin, Recombinant toxin, Rhizotoxin, Shiga neurotoxin, Tetanospasmin.

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/toxin

This of course reinforces the hospital doctors letter to the Times published within a couple of days of the incident. Where he stated no chemical weapons had been detected.

4. She then states "both patients have responded exceptionally well". One wonders if the third "patient" who allegedly was also "exposed to a nerve agent", really had just a sore throat.

So they've confirmed it's a nerve agent and you're clutching at straws.

Nothing new there then.

The US and its allies veto the Russian resolution to send OPCW inspectors to Syria.

The latest resolution to fail was a Russian-sponsored draft backing an Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) fact-finding mission at the site of the alleged attack in Douma. The draft received five votes in favor (Russia, China, Ethiopia, Kazakhstan and Bolivia), four votes against (the US, the UK, France and Poland) and six abstentions, falling short of the minimum nine votes required for adoptionhttps://www.rt.com/news/423762-syria-investigation-draft-rejected/

Why is that harry.? Why doesn't the US want inspectors to visit the site of this alleged chemical weapons attack.?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

it’s obvious that London is in possession of solid intelligence to back up its claim of Kremlin culpability in the March 4 attack.

only to you dude

Theresa May’s insistence that Russian intelligence is to blame for the attack on the Skripals is the tell that the Brits know something important behind the scenes, the sort of highly classified information that can’t be shared with the public. But what?

Theresa May is a deceing kunt of the highest order, and you are buying all her shit as kasher ? how delusional are you

Originally Posted by Neo

The US and its allies veto the Russian resolution to send OPCW inspectors to Syria.


Why is that harry.? Why doesn't the US want inspectors to visit the site of this alleged chemical weapons attack.?

No, they just don't want Syria and Russia stopping the OPCW from doing its job.

"The draft resolution mainly asks for the OPCW to send a fact-finding mission to Douma. But the fact-finding mission is already travelling to Douma, they have a mandate to investigate and collect samples," Haley noted. The draft, she argued, aimed to put "the Russian and the Syrian governments in the driver's seat for making arrangements" and to "micromanage" the OPCW investigation.
"This Council, and least of all Russia, should not be calling the shots," she stressed.

And, of course, she is spot on.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning

Food poisoning was also claimed to be the cause of poisoning by Yulia Skripal when she phoned her cousin in Russia. Over to you Harry.

I refer you to Ohoh's post above.



Mind you I'd also caution you to stop reading whackjob websites.

Originally Posted by Neo

Why doesn't the US want inspectors to visit the site of this alleged chemical weapons attack.?

I'd also question your reading ability given that the article you quoted states that the OPCW are going to visit the site of this alleged chemical weapons attack (that's assuming Syria and Russia don't try and find an "alternative" way of stopping them).

Just so the Putin girls choir are all on the same page:

THE HAGUE, Netherlands — 10 April 2018 — Since the first reports of alleged use of chemical weapons in Douma, Syrian Arab Republic, were issued, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) has been gathering information from all available sources and analysing it. At the same time, OPCW’s Director-General, Ambassador Ahmet Üzümcü, has considered the deployment of a Fact-Finding Mission (FFM) team to Douma to establish facts surrounding these allegations.
Today, the OPCW Technical Secretariat has requested the Syrian Arab Republic to make the necessary arrangements for such a deployment. This has coincided with a request from the Syrian Arab Republic and the Russian Federation to investigate the allegations of chemical weapons use in Douma. The team is preparing to deploy to Syria shortly.

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/op...o-douma-syria/

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Mind you I'd also caution you to stop reading whackjob websites.

Rule one. When your arse is against the wall always attack the messenger.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Rule one. When your arse is against the wall always attack the messenger.

Rule number two.

When you post shit off a whackjob website and someone debunks it and tells you why, take it gracefully.

I think the doctors that treated the three victims probably know enough to determine that it wasn't food poisoning you complete chump.



Just a little reminder from OhOh's post:

Following the incident on March 4, Salisbury District Hospital received three people who required inpatient care – Sergei and Yulia Skripal and DS Nick Bailey, who was discharged on March 22. All three had been exposed to a nerve agent – a highly toxic chemical which aims to prevent the nervous system from functioning.

Paralytic Shellfish Poison

Paralytic Shellfish Poison shows similar symptoms as Nerve agent poisoning. In the case of nerve agent poisoning no one has been known to recover without the antidote. Whereas PSP people can completely recover and there is no antidote.

What are the symptoms of PSP?

Early symptoms include tingling of the lips and tongue, which may begin within minutes of eating toxic shellfish or may take an hour or two to develop. Symptoms may progress to tingling of fingers and toes and then loss of control of arms and legs, followed by difficulty in breathing. Some people feel nauseous or experience a sense of floating. If a person consumes enough toxin, muscles of the chest and abdomen become paralyzed, including muscles used for breathing, and the victim can suffocate. Death from PSP has occurred in less than 30 minutes.

What is the treatment?

There is no antidote for PSP. The only treatment for severe cases is the use of life support systems such as a mechanical respirator and oxygen until the toxin passes from the victim's system. Survivors can have a full recovery.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

In the case of nerve agent poisoning no one has been known to recover without the antidote.

Now you're just making shit up.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Now you're just making shit up.

Go on, name someone who has recovered, without the antidote, from nerve agent poisoning.

Kim Jong-Nam was carrying 12 vials of nerve agent antidote (Atropine) when he got attacked. Didn't save him did it?

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Go on, name someone who has recovered, without the antidote, from nerve agent poisoning.

Kim Jong-Nam was carrying 12 vials of nerve agent antidote (Atropine) when he got attacked. Didn't save him did it?

Again: You're making shit up.

The effects of ANY poisoning are proportional to the dose received.

The use of nerve agents is not new.

Not everyone on the Japanese underground died in the Aum Shinrikyo Sarin attacks.

(Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees, Sarin is a Nerve Agent).

The Tokyo subway sarin attack (Subway Sarin Incident (地下鉄サリン事件 Chikatetsu Sarin Jiken) was an act of domestic terrorism perpetrated on March 20, 1995, in Tokyo, Japan, by members of the cult movement Aum Shinrikyo.
In five coordinated attacks, the perpetrators released sarin on three lines of the present-day Tokyo Metro (then part of the Tokyo subway) during rush hour, killing 12 people, severely injuring 50 and causing temporary vision problems for nearly 1,000 others.

Again: Don't make shit up.

And interestingly, no "rebels" affected, just the kids...

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Not everyone on the Japanese underground died in the Aum Shinrikyo Sarin attacks.

No because nerve agent really only becomes deadly when it comes into contact with the skin. In the case of the Japanese attack it didn't happen because some of those who delivered the VX refused to use aerosol spays to deliver the agent.

[QUOTE]At prearranged stations, the sarin packets were dropped and punctured several times with the sharpened tip of the umbrella. Each perpetrator then got off the train and exited the station to meet his accomplice with a car. Leaving the punctured packets on the floor allowed the sarin to leak out into the train car and stations. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pragmatic;3749875]No because nerve agent really only becomes deadly when it comes into contact with the skin. In the case of the Japanese attack it didn't happen because some of those who delivered the VX refused to use aerosol spays to deliver the agent.

At prearranged stations, the sarin packets were dropped and punctured several times with the sharpened tip of the umbrella. Each perpetrator then got off the train and exited the station to meet his accomplice with a car. Leaving the punctured packets on the floor allowed the sarin to leak out into the train car and stations. [/QUOTE]

Well it obviously got in contact with the skin because it killed 12 people didn't it?

Sheesh, you're making shit up and now you're trying to defend it.

Post me a link that says definitively that no-one has ever survived exposure to a nerve agent or stop making shit up.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Well it obviously got in contact with the skin because it killed 12 people didn't it?

You still haven't named one person who has survived a nerve agent attack without the use of the antidote. I agree people died on the Japanese subway but they must have come into contact with the agent. More than likely from aerosol can that were used. Even one on the attackers came into contact with the nerve agent but he used Atropine on himself.

Kenichi Hirose teamed up with getaway driver Koichi Kitamura. After releasing the sarin, Hirose himself showed symptoms of sarin poisoning. He was able to inject himself with the antidote (atropine sulphate) and was rushed to the Aum-affiliated Shinrikyo Hospital in Nakano for treatment.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

No because nerve agent really only becomes deadly when it comes into contact with the skin. In the case of the Japanese attack it didn't happen because some of those who delivered the VX refused to use aerosol spays to deliver the agent.

[QUOTE]At prearranged stations, the sarin packets were dropped and punctured several times with the sharpened tip of the umbrella. Each perpetrator then got off the train and exited the station to meet his accomplice with a car. Leaving the punctured packets on the floor allowed the sarin to leak out into the train car and stations. [/QUOTE]

Your quote does not support your comments.


In fact Sarin is highly volatile, in other words it can easily turn from a liquid into a gas. Even sarin vapour can immediately penetrate the skin. So while strictly speaking your implication that it can only kill when it comes into contact with the skin is true, that contact can be in vapour form. Thus there is no need for a delivery method such as an aerosol.

Leaving a bag of it in a train would be a pretty crap attempt at mass murder if it could only kill via contact with the contents of the bag.

'Underground' by Haruki Murukami is worth reading, btw.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

You still haven't named one person who has survived a nerve agent attack without the use of the antidote. I agree people died on the Japanese subway but they must have come into contact with the agent. More than likely from aerosol can that were used. Even one on the attackers came into contact with the nerve agent but he used Atropine on himself.

You seriously want me to name

severely injuring 50 and causing temporary vision problems for nearly 1,000 others

Now you're just being silly.

Just admit you made it up without thinking it through and move on.