Thread: Bali Executions

Originally Posted by Troy

I am well aware of the fact that revenge is a real emotion. I am also well aware of the fact that Justice should be seen as wholly rational and devoid of that emotion.

Perhaps it is the seeking of revenge rather than justice and the incarceration rather than rehabilitation that makes the punishment system in many countries so utterly useless.

Well said ! Hence statues of Justice often being depicted as blind, or blindfolded.

Originally Posted by Looper

You do not live in the real world if you do not understand that revenge is a very real and valid human emotion and the justice system is there to serve that emotion.

I think that's a silly thing to say, Looper. There are many people who seek redress in civil and family courts who are trying to get revenge on each other and often fail.
I was myself once utterly dissatisfied with a civil court result. They ruled in the other person's favour on a technicality.

Originally Posted by Troy

Society should be protected by the imprisonment of the offender; the offender should be helped by rehabilitation and the victim should be helped with whatever assistance maybe necessary. There is no redress / retribution / revenge necessary.

What is the most common complaint you here from the families of victims immediately following the court case?

'He got off too lightly. We want him sent down for longer.'

They want revenge against their aggressor.

They want him to suffer as they have been made to suffer by him, and rightly so.

Before the legal system revenge was something you had to sort out yourself.

Now you pay taxes and the system delivers it (if things go your way).

There is nothing wrong with wanting revenge when you have been fucked over.

It is the game theory basis of how human communal bahaviour evolved.

Originally Posted by Troy

I am well aware of the fact that revenge is a real emotion. I am also well aware of the fact that Justice should be seen as wholly rational and devoid of that emotion.

You are talking cock mate. The justice system was invented by human beings and human beings are emotional creatures. There is nothing wrong with emotion it is the currency of human social interaction and the essence that makes homo sapiens who we are.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Can't green ya right now Chang yai but thanks for your post. Thanks for your service and thanks for being a good cop.

This article is doing the Internet rounds, read it again today on Facebook.
Chang is not the cop in the article.

Looper, the justice system may have been invented by human beings but it was not invented to cater for their every base emotion.

And when it was formulated and constructed, people tried to ensure that it would (amongst other things)

Originally Posted by Troy

be seen as wholly rational and devoid of that emotion.

Or are you just winding up Troy ??

Originally Posted by wasabi

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Can't green ya right now Chang yai but thanks for your post. Thanks for your service and thanks for being a good cop.

This article is doing the Internet rounds, read it again today on Facebook.
Chang is not the cop in the article.

Whoa !!! never said or implied I was the cop in the article, reposted it from FB.

It was a big social issue a few days ago, but now everyones talking about Kate and Wills baby. I personally think this country (Australia) is on its way to being a real f**k up. The vast majority of people who loudly voice their opinions there are ignorant fools with no real life experiences.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Looper, the justice system may have been invented by human beings but it was not invented to cater for their every base emotion.

And when it was formulated and constructed, people tried to ensure that it would (amongst other things)

Originally Posted by Troy

be seen as wholly rational and devoid of that emotion.

Or are you just winding up Troy ??

The application of justice is supposed to be fair and impartial and without emotion, though the adversarial system and juries make it very much so.
This is entirely different from the reason the justice system exists........

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Looper, the justice system may have been invented by human beings but it was not invented to cater for their every base emotion.

And when it was formulated and constructed, people tried to ensure that it would (amongst other things)

Originally Posted by Troy

be seen as wholly rational and devoid of that emotion.

Or are you just winding up Troy ??

The justice system deals with emotional situations every day. It is supposed to be impartial but to suggest that emotions are not involved in the conflict resolution process is just buffoonery.

In most cases both parties are heavily emotionally invested in the process and the outcome.

One of the emotions in the process is the emotion of anger and revenge when the aggrieved plaintive wants a wrong balanced with punishment and suffering inflicted on the aggressor by the justice system.

Why do you find it so hard to accept what is quite obvious to anyone who actually has experience of human conflict i.e. every human being who has ever existed.

It is not the impartial and emotionless system that wants revenge. It is the plaintive and in some cases the public who is another stakeholder in legal process.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

I was myself once utterly dissatisfied with a civil court result. They ruled in the other person's favour on a technicality.

Give us the good oil LD!

Today is Sunday, I arrived back into Perth on Thursday.

I arrived back to screaming headlines regards the Druggies being sent to meet their maker.

Talk back was rampant, everyone had a different opinion, the Media were talking it up, plastered all over the TV, PM was on TV giving his two baht worth's.

It was simply a fuking massive gong show.

So here we are 5 days or so down the track and today there was simply fuk all in the paper or on TV regards the Bad boy Junk peddlers.

Today was all about the big fight, the ongoing Nepal gig and local and other International news.

The story is over, its finished already so now it's back to Australia sucking Indonesia's cock and back to business.

Bad boys got topped, end of story. Carry on.

Boycott Bali ? Fuking joke that one innit. Aussies lining up to get in, they love it.

Retards cry because the junkies put in ten years before being sent down the river. ?

The outcry would of been exactly the same if they were topped in the first 10 minutes after being sentenced to Death.

So they where fuking lucky they got Ten more years in huh.

So now every fuker on the face of this world will know if they attempt to smuggle huge amounts of Class A drugs through Bali and get caught they will be shot.

That message works for me.

Originally Posted by patsycat

and picking up a paint brush and even getting married two hours before they were killed

They got married? I didn't hear that. That was nice! I guess that's what happens when you are shacked up together in a prison cell for 10 years. Indonesia allows gay marriage! What a progressive and forward thinking society!

Originally Posted by Latindancer

The problem is that you were expressing yourself in a way that strongly suggested that the justice system were giving judgement IN ORDER to give victims and their families revenge and retribution....

I was suggesting that. It is part of the reason for the sentence. That is why it is called 'justice'. Justice is served when an offender is punished and made to suffer publicly in response to an infraction against another member of society. It is done in the full understanding that the victim will relish their just revenge as part of that process.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Whereas it is supposed to be completely impartial.

There is no 'whereas' about it. There is no conflict between the idea of a judiciary being impartial and their sentence constituting vengeance being served on behalf of a victim who cannot legally take their own revenge since the state has a monopoly on this business. If they failed to deliver punishment in retaliation for the offence then they would not be acting impartially since that would leave the offender with the upper hand.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

If people want to wallow in delight at revenge, so be it. THat's their choice....but it's incidental.

It is not incidental. It is part of the intended function of the judicial process even if formal definitions of such systems are too polite to make such an ugly admission.

Originally Posted by Looper

Indonesia allows gay marriage! What a progressive and forward thinking society!

Don't panic, they got shot shortly afterwards so your universe has rebalanced itself.

^ ..

Originally Posted by terry57

So now every fuker on the face of this world will know if they attempt to smuggle huge amounts of Class A drugs through Bali and get caught they will be shot.

That message works for me.

Reality is not a strong point in the mixed up mind of T57 - here is a factual check on the actual facts

1 if you smuggle huge amounts of class a drugs to Bali you have a 2 in 9 chance of being shot.

2 if you are found with the drugs strapped to you or in your possession you will not be shot but receive a lengthy jail sentence,

Does that message still work for you or can you not see past the short length of your hose!

Originally Posted by patsycat

I hope that their deaths will drive the nail into the brain cell of future drug smugglers who think they are above the law or intelligence of the authorities of the world.

It won't not now not ever as is aleady seen.

^
It certainly won't when they see how Indo drug dealers operate with impunity...
It appears to be just 'bad luck' to get caught.

Originally Posted by Looper

They got married? I didn't hear that. That was nice! I guess that's what happens when you are shacked up together in a prison cell for 10 years. Indonesia allows gay marriage! What a progressive and forward thinking society!

Well done Looper, you didn't hear that? I believe you are an Austrailian so here's something for you - the woman on the right is is Andrew Chan's WIFE;



Bali 9 executions: Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran's bodies arrive in Australia

Originally Posted by Ronin

the woman on the right is is Andrew Chan's WIFE;

Not any more Ronin, she's his widow now..


Anyway Looper; needy, poor judge of character, fragile emotional state, single and best of all you know she's not going to be getting any annoying late-night calls from her ex!

Get stuck in man.

Originally Posted by Ronin

Well done Looper, you didn't hear that? I believe you are an Austrailian so here's something for you - the woman on the right is is Andrew Chan's WIFE;

Duh, thank you for clearing that up for me Ronin

Originally Posted by stroller

Well, I don't know about Australia, but in the rest of the world attitudes have changed quite a bit over the last few centuries. At least in civilised countries, convicts are not made to suffer publicly. To enjoy the delights of public flogging, I recommend Saudi or Tansania.

Their suffering should be publicised because society should know that the offender is being made suffer since all the law abiders want to know that their law abiding is worthwhile from a practical point of view (i.e. they want to see that people do get punished and suffer for their crimes against society). That is the social revenge aspect of sentencing which has some similarity with the victim revenge aspect. i.e. the offender has broken the social contract and society has a right to retaliate through the judicial system. Flogging is not necessary. Just as long as their incarceration is lengthy or their execution swift is enough.

Originally Posted by quimbian corholla

Anyway Looper; needy, poor judge of character, fragile emotional state, single and best of all you know she's not going to be getting any annoying late-night calls from her ex! Get stuck in man.

Thanks for the tip QC. 'Poor judge of character' usually works in my favour! ... but I am off the market now, sadly.

I wonder how many of these do-gooder PC nuts turn around upon airport arrival when they read on the immigration card and hear verbally the sentence of death for drug trafficking and catch the next flight out.

Not many if any I suspect.

Originally Posted by patsycat

Is there going to be such a big media circus for the English granny lady who is now on the top of the list for execution?

I doubt it. I don't think the British government are quite so arrogant as the Australian one. Anyway, she's ready to die and has been writing goodbye letters to her family.




"My execution is imminent and I know I might die at any time now. I could be taken tomorrow from my cell," Sandiford wrote in British newspaper the Mail on Sunday. "I have started to write goodbye letters to members of my family."

Sandiford, originally from Redcar in northeast England, wrote that she planned to sing the cheery popular song "Magic Moments" when facing the firing squad. "I won't wear a blindfold. It's not because I'm brave but because I don't want to hide - I want them to look at me when they shoot me."

She said her greatest sadness is that she may never meet her two-year-old granddaughter, who was born after her arrest.

Sandiford was sentenced to death on the island of Bali in 2013 after she was convicted of trafficking drugs. Customs officers found cocaine worth an estimated £1.6 million ($2.4 million, 79.75 million baht) hidden in a false bottom in Sandiford's suitcase when she arrived in Bali on a flight from Thailand in 2012.

British grandmother prepares for execution in Indonesia | Bangkok Post: news

I have some advice: don't traffic drugs into Indo.

There are consequences.

They took the chance; they got caught.

Indonesia where you can marry and become a widow all in the same day...What rubbish, married while going to face the firing squad...idiots. No wonder they choose the drug lifestyle...I regret no being able to see my grand daughter she says...fuk'en moron, please write more goodbye letters...2.4 million in coke in her suitcase...wasn't her first trip I bet?