Thread: Syria: Not as important as Libya.

[quote=OhOh;1993462]

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

the defectors are to withdraw from the streets while the government troops are to end their siege of the town

Presumably this is the armed defectors, as opposed to the ordinary unarmed civilians. Will the police force now take over from both or is an independent commission going to insert a force of the armed defectors choosing.

If it is the FSA, then fair's fair.

If that means unarmed civilian protestors return to the streets, however, my guess is Assad will leave the tanks out and let the snipers continue to wreak havoc.

He clearly cannot be trusted.

^I think for the simple reason that his (family) history won't allow him to. He can't pull his finger out of that dike (fuck I almost wrote dyke). The Assad name is never going to get over 1982.

And the descent into civil war continues....

Fourteen killed as Syria police truck targeted

1/21/2012 - 2:55:28 PM

At least 14 people were killed today when a string of explosions struck a police truck transporting prisoners in a tense area of north-western Syria, the country's state-run news agency and an opposition group said.

Troops fought intense battles against defectors elsewhere in northern Syria, activists said, leaving "dozens" of people injured.

The 10-month uprising against Syrian President Bashar Assad has become increasingly militarised and chaotic as more frustrated regime opponents and army defectors arm themselves and fight back against government forces.

The Sana news agency blamed the attack on the police truck on "terrorists" and said it took place on the Idlib-Ariha highway, an area near the Turkish border which has witnessed intense fighting with army defectors recently.

Four bombs that went off in "two phases" hit the truck, and then attackers targeted an ambulance that arrived to assist the wounded, Sana reported.

Six policemen who were accompanying the prisoners were also injured, leaving some in a critical condition, it said.

The British-based opposition activist group, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, confirmed the incident and said 15 prisoners were killed.

Rami Abdul-Rahman, director of the group, said the truck was hit by several roadside bombs, but it was not clear who was behind the attack.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility, but members of the so-called Free Syrian Army are known to be active in the area.

A Syria-based activist said the area has several army encampments and is full of roadside bombs planted to target army tanks passing by, adding that the truck carrying prisoners may not have been the intended target.

Mr Abdul-Rahman and other activists in the country's northern Idlib province also reported heavy clashes between Syrian troops and defectors in the Jabal al-Zawiya region, along the Turkish border.

He said "dozens" of people from both sides were injured in the fighting, some of them seriously.

The Local Co-ordination Committees activist network said five other people were killed in Syria today, including three in the central city of Homs, one in the eastern city of Deir el-Zour and another in Douma, a suburb of the Syrian capital.

The conflict in Syria has marked the most serious challenge to Mr Assad, who took over from his father in 2000. The UN estimates that some 5,400 people have been killed since March, when the uprising began.

The capital has seen three suicide bombings since late December which the government blamed on terrorist extremists.

The violence comes as the head of an Arab League observers mission was to submit his report to the League's Cairo headquarters. Foreign ministers for the Arab League will meet in Cairo tomorrow to discuss the future of the mission, which expired on Thursday.

Arab League officials said the organisation is likely to extend its observer mission in Syria and increase its numbers, despite complaints from the Syrian opposition that it has failed to curb the bloodshed in the country.

Many have called for the dispatch of foreign troops to Syria to create safe zones for dissidents, or even a more wide-ranging military mission similar to the air campaign which helped Libyan rebels bring down dictator Muammar Gaddafi last year.

Burhan Ghalioun, head of the main opposition group, the Syrian National Council, was in the Egyptian capital today for talks with Arab League officials ahead of tomorrow's meeting.

Security officials in Lebanon, meanwhile, said the Syrian navy arrested three Lebanese fishermen and confiscated their boat in Lebanese waters off the northern town of Arida today.

The two brothers and their nephew were taken after Syria soldiers on board a naval vessel fired in the direction of the boat, the officials said.

After the incident, angry residents of Arida blocked the highway linking Lebanon and Syria for hours with burning tyres.

Meanwhile....

Syrian opposition urges Arab League to refer crisis to U.N. as deadly violence continues

Saturday, 21 January 2012
Syrian National Council leader Burhan Ghalioun speaks during a news conference in Tunis Dec. 19, 2011. (Reuters)
By Al Arabiya with Agencies


The main opposition Syrian National Council has presented the Arab League with a formal request to refer the Syrian crisis to the U.N. Security Council, the group’s spokeswoman Basma ElKadamny said on Saturday.

Syrian opposition groups have called in the past for the case to be referred to the Security Council but had not made a formal request to the 22-member Arab body.

The SNC’s move came amid the failure of Arab pressure on the regime of President Bashar al-Assad to bring an end to continuous deadly violence.
On Saturday, an explosion killed at least 14 people and injured 32 on a minibus carrying prisoners in Syria’s northwestern province of Idlib, the opposition Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported.

The Syrian Coordination Committees reported that 30 dead bodies were in Idlib National Hospital, including the bodies of prisoners, Al Arabiya TV reported.

“Eleven prisoners were killed in the explosion which targeted a prison truck on the road between Idlib town and the village of Mastumeh,” The Syrian Observatory’s chairman, Rami Abdel Rahman, told AFP by telephone.

A number of security personnel accompanying the prisoners were wounded, Abdel Rahman said, without being able to provide details.
The British-based group, which monitors a 10-month-old uprising against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, gave no further details. No independent confirmation was available.

Separately, the Observatory reported that a member of the security forces was killed in fighting between dissidents and soldiers at Kfarnebel, in the Zawiya mountains of Idlib province, with troops using heavy machineguns.
It also said security forces had arrested seven people Saturday, including four members of the same family, in Iblin village.

The United Nations estimates that more than 5,400 people have been killed in Syria since anti-regime demonstrations erupted in March.

A ‘tool’ used by U.S.


Meanwhile Syrian state newspaper Ath-Thawra newspaper reported on Saturday that Qatar, which has called for Arab troops to deploy in crisis-hit Syria, is a “tool” being used by the United States against Damascus.

The claim was made as Arab League foreign ministers are to meet in Cairo on review an observer mission critics say has been unable to stem the violence in Syria. League officials have voiced satisfaction with the mission’s progress so far.

“It is clear that Qatar, disappointed by the first report of the observers, has started to distance itself from the Arab League and the report expected” on Sunday, the paper wrote.

The emir of Qatar, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, only has use for the observers if they give “their approval to put in place his plans, conforming with the obligations taken from Washington”, the paper alleged.

The emir told the U.S.-television program “60 Minutes” that Arab troops should deploy in Syria to “stop the killing,” in an interview broadcast last Sunday. Syria has fiercely rejected the proposal.

The paper accused Qatar of financing the armed insurgents that Damascus blames for fuelling 10 months of unrest that has claimed more than 5,400 lives, according to U.N. estimates.

The paper charged that Washington does not want to be “directly implicated” in the Syria crisis and therefore “intends to turn Qatar into a tool to tear down” Assad’s regime.

The head of the Arab League mission, General Mohammed Ahmed Mustafa al-Dabi of Sudan, will present a report to Arab foreign ministers, after a meeting of the League’s Syria crisis panel, which is chaired by Qatar.

Busy day yesterday:

CAIRO (AFP) - The Arab League on Sunday asked the UN to support a new plan for resolving the crisis in Syria that sees President Bashar al-Assad transferring power to his deputy and a government of national unity within two months.
Assad should "delegate powers to the vice president to liaise with a government of national unity," to be formed in two months, according to a statement read by Qatari premier Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim Al-Thani after Arab foreign ministers met in Cairo to determine the fate of their observer mission.
Deployed since December 26 to oversee an Arab League peace plan, the mission has been widely criticised for its failure to stem the government's bloody crackdown on democracy protesters.
Earlier, Saudi Arabia's foreign minister said Riyadh had pulled its observers from the mission because the Syrian government had "not respected any of the clauses" in the Arab plan aimed at ending the crisis.
The Arab League agreed, however, to extend the mission and boost the number of observers, according to the final statement.
"We will inform the United Nations of all the resolutions of the Arab League... for its approval," Sheikh Hamad said.
The League's secretary general Nabil al-Arabi, who attended Sunday evening's news conference, explained that the request to support the United Nations was designed to "give more weight" to the Arab initiative.
The Arab foreign ministers urged "the Syrian government and all the opposition factions to engage in a serious dialogue under the auspices of the Arab League, within a period of not more than two weeks, to be able to achieve the formation of a unity government bringing together those in power and the opposition."
The new government's mission would be to implement the Arab League plan to end the crisis, and to prepare free and fair legislative and presidential elections under both Arab and international supervision.
It would also prepare the election of a constituent assembly within three months and a new constitution which would be put to a referendum.
The ministers tasked the bloc's secretary general with nominating a "special envoy" to Syria in charge of following developments in the country.
After reading out the statement, the Qatari premier said the new plan envisaged the "peaceful departure of the Syrian regime."
"The new Arab initiative adopted by the foreign ministers envisages the peaceful departure of the Syrian regime," he said, adding that the plan "resembles the one on Yemen," which resulted in President Ali Abdullah Saleh agreeing to step down.
"If this initiative is not put in place (by Damascus), we will go to the Security Council, where the decisions will be taken," Sheikh Hamad warned.
The Syrian National Council, the country's largest opposition group, has been lobbying in Cairo for UN intervention, and SNC chief Burhan Ghaliun welcomed the League's statement of its intention to seek UN support.
But he insisted that "any transition in Syria should be preceded with the announcement of Assad's departure."
Earlier, the SNC called for the Syria file to be transferred to the UN Security Council for referral to the International Criminal Court, so that all Syrian officials implicated in "crimes against humanity" could be prosecuted under international law.
International pressure has been steadily growing on Assad's regime, with more than 5,400 people killed since anti-government protests broke out last March, according to UN figures.
But a tough Security Council resolution on Syria has been blocked by veto-wielding permanent members China and Russia, with Moscow insisting the opposition is as much to blame for the violence as the regime.
A report delivered earlier on Sunday by the chief of the Arab League's monitoring mission, General Mohammed Ahmed Mustafa al-Dabi of Sudan, also blamed both sides for the bloodshed, according to an Arab diplomatic source.
The Arab League deployed observers in Syria on December 26, and there are presently about 165 monitors on the ground.
The Local Coordination Committees, which organises anti-regime protests, said in a statement on Sunday that 976 people have been killed in a bloody crackdown on dissent since the observer mission began.
Qatar had proposed that Arab troops be deployed in Syria, but Damascus rejected that idea outright.

Syria has condemned a new Arab League initiative that calls on President Bashar al-Assad to cede power by holding early elections and forming a "national unity government".
Syrian state television, quoting an unnamed official source, said early on Monday morning that the resolution, passed on Sunday night, contradicted the will of the Syrian people and was a violation of its national sovereignty.
The source said the resolution was part of a conspiracy against the Syrian people.
The Arab League called on Assad to delegate power to his vice president and for elections to be held under a "national unity government," the latest steps in a slow-moving diplomatic effort to end 10 months of bloody uprising.
The bloc's members agreed to a political initiative that would call for a unity government and early elections to end the crisis, the Qatari prime minister said after a meeting of the 22-member body in Cairo.

The new plan envisioned the "peaceful departure of the Syrian regime" and resembled the arrangement in Yemen, where Gulf nations convinced President Ali Abdullah Saleh to delegate power and leave the country, Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim Al Thani, the Qatari prime minister, said.
Al Thani said the league would ask the United Nations Security Council to support its plan for transition.
"After the establishment of the government of national unity, there has to be a referendum and preparation for new elections. The Arab League's secretary-general is to send a new special envoy to Syria, and will call on the international community to support this national unity government to fulfill its functions," he said.
He also reiterated the Arab League's demands that the violence in Syria be brought to an end, that political detainees be released, that the Syrian military pull out of cities and that citizens be allowed to demonstrate peacefully.
The league has called on the opposition and government to begin a new round of dialogue "within two weeks".
'Arab solution'
Al-Thani said that while the league was taking its case to the Security Council, it was not in favour of an international military intervention.
"We are looking into an Arab solution for this. We are not looking for a military intervention. The decision was by consensus, except Algeria which had some reservations. Lebanon has abstained, and we appreciate their situation there and we thank them for their co-operation," he said.
He also announced that the Arab League's observer mission in Syria would be extended, and that the observers would be given additional equipment after the head of the monitoring mission, General Mohammed Ahmed Mustafa al-Dabi of Sudan, said he wanted his mandate to be stengthened.
"We understand that al-Dabi has said to the Syrian committee that the mission has not gained enough momentum yet to get a full judgment on it," reported Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna from Cairo.

"He said that he needed more time with the added monitors that he's received in recent weeks and the added geographical places in which the monitoring mission is now extended to see if this mission can in fact work."
Nabil ElAraby, the League's secretary-general, said that Syria had not fulfilled its obligations, and that was why the observers' mission had been extended.
But Saudi Arabia said it would withdraw its observers from Syria because Damascus had not kept its promises in regard to the mission.
Syria’s main opposition bloc, the Syrian National Council (SNC), has criticised the Arab League mission, saying that the conditions under which the observers have been forced to work, escorted by Syrian troops, did not allow them to present an objective report.
The SNC formally asked the league on Saturday to refer the Syrian crisis to the UN Security Council.
"We think that when the Arab League refers the case to the United Nations and to the Security Council the situation will change," Basma ElKadamny, an SNC spokesperson, said in Cairo.
Fresh violence
Sunday's meeting came amid reports of clashes between Syrian government troops and army defectors in Douma, a suburb of the capital, Damascus.
"Apparently there were some clashes between the regime's army and the FSA [Free Syrian Army] but the FSA has gone back to its positions," Rafif Jouejati, a spokeswoman for the Local Co-ordination Committees (LCC) activist network, told Al Jazeera.
Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, reporting from Beirut in neighbouring Lebanon, said the FSA appeared to be gaining strength in Doumam which had been a protest hub for some time.
"Last night there were conflicting accounts that the Syrian security forces were forced to retreat because of resistance from the FSA. What is clear is that neither side is in control [of the area]," our correspondent said.
Anti-Assad activist groups say that security forces fired on anti-government protesters in several locations around Damascus on Sunday, including Rankous and Douma, and in Karm al-Zaitoun in Homs.
Activists say that hundreds of people have been killed since the monitors arrived in Syria, with some reporting the deaths of as many as 740 civilians in the last month.
Critics say the Arab mission has only provided diplomatic cover for Assad to pursue a crackdown that has already killed more than 5,000 people since anti-government protests erupted in March 2011, according to a UN count.

but getting the hard squeeze from the arab league. good to see. small step but right direction.

Originally Posted by watdog

but getting the hard squeeze from the arab league. good to see. small step but right direction.

You would be happy for a regional entity, EU, AL, AU, OAS, SEAN, SCO....... to agree a resolution for them to insert a number of unelected politicians in your own parliament?

I am assuming you are not a Thai?

"DAMASCUS COUNTRYSIDE, (SANA) – The National Unity Forum for Supporting Reform, Adhering to Standards and Confronting the Conspiracy held on Monday in Irneh in al-Sheikh Mountain issued a closing statement.

The statement affirmed that Syria will remain strong and that no conspirator will harm it, stressing that it will always be the home of all Syrians and that they will not be divided by colonialists or those who pretend to be Arabs.

The statement also affirmed refusal of all forms of foreign interference in Syria's internal affairs and rejection of the Arab League resolutions which undermine Syria's sovereignty and unity, stressing that Syria is an example of co-existence and call upon all Syrians to avoid being drawn into calls for sedition that seek to tear the country apart.

The statement denounced the bombings and murders targeting the country and citizens, saluting the people of the occupied Syrian Golan and reiterating vows that the Golan will not be forfeited.

Participants affirmed their adherence to pure Arabism and its essence, stressing that comprehensive national dialogue is the only way out of this crisis and that they will put all their resources to help improve Syria and support the reform process led by President Bashar al-Assad."

Russia Says NATO, Persian Gulf Nations Plan to Seek No-Fly Zone for Syria - Bloomberg

"Russia received information that members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and some Persian Gulf countries are preparing military intervention in Syria, the head of the Russian Security Council said.

Turkey, a NATO member, may play a key role, Nikolai Patrushev, who used to head the country’s intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service, told Interfax in comments confirmed by his office. The U.S. and Turkey are working on a possible no-fly zone to protect Syrian rebels, Patrushev said.
“We are receiving information that NATO members and some Persian Gulf states, working under the ‘Libyan scenario’, intend to move from indirect intervention in Syria to direct military intervention,” the Russian security chief said.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said yesterday that the Arab League monitoring mission in Syria should end after failing to deter the government’s 10-month campaign of violence against dissidents. She spoke after meeting Qatari Foreign Minister, Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jabor al Thani, a day after President Barack Obama held talks with Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal at the White House.
Turkey’s Foreign Ministry and NATO’s press service in Brussels didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.
Russia, which has Soviet-era ties with Syria, argues that United Nations-sanctioned bombing of Libya by NATO to protect civilians was used to bring about regime change and that Western governments are trying to repeat that scenario in Syria.

Iranian Alliance
The West is putting pressure on Syria because the country refuses to break off its alliance with Iran and not for repressing the opposition, said Patrushev, who served with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in the Soviet-era KGB.
“This time, it won’t be France, the U.K. and Italy that will provide the main strike forces, but perhaps neighboring Turkey, which was until recently on good terms with Syria and is a rival of Iran with immense ambitions,” Patrushev said.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad rejected calls for his resignation on Jan. 10, accusing “foreign conspiracies” of aiming to divide his country. Unrest in Syria since March 2011 has claimed more than 5,000 lives, according to the United Nations.
The Arab League imposed sanctions on Syria on Nov. 27. Russia and China have blocked efforts by the U.S. and the European Union for the UN Security Council to condemn the crackdown.
Russia, which has a naval base in Syria and sells weapons to the Middle Eastern country, is more concerned that Islamic radicals may come to power, said Irina Zvyagelskaya, a Middle East analyst at the Academy of Sciences in Moscow.
Russian Fear
“Our fear is that Syria could collapse and extremist Islamic forces will seize control that no one will be pleased about,” Zvyagelskaya said in a phone interview today. “This could destabilize the entire region.”

While Russia would block any effort to seek UN approval for a no-fly zone in Syria thanks to its veto-wielding power as a permanent member of the Security Council, Western nations and their allies may form a coalition like they did for the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, said the analyst.
“There are scenarios which different countries are looking at,” Zvyagelskaya said. “We have seen before what a no-fly zone means, it will be used to overthrow the regime.”
"

Continues......

^ I find it hard to believe that Israel has 400 nukes, maybe a dozens at most, the French and the Americans couldn't have been that stupid for giving that many nukes to Israel

sounds like Israel is trying to look bigger than it is,

and why so many nukes ? is it because their rate of misfire is in the high 80% and you need more for it ?

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by watdog

but getting the hard squeeze from the arab league. good to see. small step but right direction.

You would be happy for a regional entity, EU, AL, AU, OAS, SEAN, SCO....... to agree a resolution for them to insert a number of unelected politicians in your own parliament?

I am assuming you are not a Thai?

I don't think this is really an issue when you have a parliament that's already full of unelected representatives.

That's the whole problem.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

and why so many nukes ? is it because their rate of misfire is in the high 80% and you need more for it ?

I'm sure that's it Butterfly. As far as the number of nukes, 4-6 hundred is what I've read in a number of places. So, your rediculous number of an 80% 'misfire' would only leave -at minimum- 80 nukes that would go 'boom'. I think that we will never know the answer. "Tensions in the Gulf could reach a breaking point as a senior Iranian official said Iran would “definitely” close the Strait of Hormuz if an EU oil embargo disrupted the export of crude oil". source: Iran 'definitely' closing Strait of Hormuz over EU oil embargo — RT

Europeans to launch new Syria offensive at UN
AFP – 1 hour 41 minutes ago

France, Germany and Britain are embarking on a new diplomatic offensive to get the UN Security Council to add to international pressure on Syria's President Bashar al-Assad over his crackdown on protests, diplomats said.

The European powers are seizing on the Arab League's tough new stance on Syria, which Germany's UN ambassador Peter Wittig said could be a "game changer."

Wittig and the UN ambassadors from Britain and France met counterparts from some Arab League nations late Monday to discuss the next moves at the UN, after League foreign ministers sought Security Council endorsement for their new plan which calls for Assad to hand over powers to a deputy and elections.

The European countries have asked for the UN Security Council to request that Arab League secretary general Nabil al-Arabi brief the 15-member Security Council "as soon as possible", diplomats said.

South Africa's UN ambassador, Baso Sangqu, who is president of the council for January, said that no decision has been taken yet on the request.

"We had a useful meeting with the Arab League who want the active support of the UN Security Council. They, with the support of council members, will be taking that forward in the coming days," said one western diplomat.

"We want a strong message that takes up the message of the Arab League," said another western diplomat. Both spoke on condition of anonymity because the talks were in private.

The council has been blocked for months over Syria, where the UN says at least 5,400 people have died since protests against Assad erupted last March. Russia and China vetoed a proposed European resolution in October saying it was the first steps toward enforced regime change.

Wittig said the Arab League's new plan for the Syria crisis "may be a game changer" in the diplomatic battle at the Security Council because the League sought UN backing for its whole plan which would force the council to discuss all elements including Assad's future.

He called the Arab League plan "a really bold step." Germany made an official request last week asking for the Arab League chief to come to the Security Council.

"This briefing that we requested is not a substitute for council action," Wittig said. "We believe now more than ever that we need strong Council action, a clear message to both the Syrian regime and the Syrian people.

"Only real support and endorsement of the Arab League's decisions will do, everything else will be perceived as much too weak."

Assad's government has already strongly rejected the Arab plan for the crisis. Russia has yet to indicate its position on the new Arab League action.

Syrian troops storm restive Hama province

January 24, 2012 - 8:34PM

Syrian troops have stormed the central province of Hama, with a heavy barrage of shelling, activists in the area told the DPA news agency on Tuesday.
"The tanks have seized all entrances to the city and all communication networks were cut," said Abu Abdullah, a member of the Local Coordination Committees (LCC), which organises protests on the ground.
"The people are trying to flee the targeted areas but the army has set up checkpoints to prevent anyone from leaving the city," he added.

In the northern province of Idlib, security forces used fire to disperse around 10,000 mourners who took to the streets on Tuesday for a funeral procession of a protester killed the day before, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said. The military operation came a day after Syria rejected an Arab League proposal to end the country's unrest, saying that the call for President Bashar al-Assad to leave office after a unity government is formed amounted to "blatant interference" in national affairs.


The Arab League on Sunday called on al-Assad to step down and hand over power to his vice-president under the terms of a transition plan similar to one which paved the way for the departure of Yemen's President Ali Abdullah Saleh from power.


The Syrian regime have been blaming the uprising against al-Assad, which began in March, on terrorists and armed gangs financed by foreign countries.
More than 5400 people have been killed, according to UN estimates.

© 2012 AP

And looks like Russia are shifting stance a tad - best to be nice to the opposition if you think they will end up running the country, eh?

Russia: We Can Do No More For Syria's Assad 2012-01-24 0332 (2 hours ago)
Posted By: Intellpuke
A top Kremlin aide said on Monday Moscow could do little more for Syrian President Bashar Assad, opening the door to a shift in Russia's position after 10 months of bloodshed.

Moscow is one of Assad's few remaining allies, resisting pressure to call for his resignation and, with China, blocking a Western-crafted U.N. Security Council resolution that would have condemned a crackdown that has killed thousands of civilians.



But Russia can do no more, state-run news agency Itar-Tass quoted Mikhail Margelov, a senior lawmaker who is President Dmitry Medvedev's special Africa envoy and has also engaged in diplomacy over Syria, as saying.



"(Our) veto on the U.N. Security Council resolution was the last instrument allowing Bashar al-Assad to maintain the status quo in the international arena," Margelov was quoted as saying.

The veto "was a serious signal to the president of Syria from Russia. This veto has exhausted our arsenal of such resources," said Margelov, who is chairman of the international affairs committee in Russia's upper parliament house.

Syria earlier rejected the Arab League's wide-ranging new plan to end the crisis, saying the League's call for a national unity government in two months is a clear violation of Syrian sovereignty.



President Bashar Assad blames the uprising that erupted in March on terrorists and armed gangs acting out a foreign conspiracy to destabilize the country. His regime has retaliated with a brutal crackdown that the U.N. says has killed more than 5,400 people.

There is growing urgency, however, to find a resolution to a crisis that is growing increasingly violent as regime opponents and army defectors who have switched sides have started to fight back against government forces.

Originally Posted by robuzo

Recent studies make a strong case for nowhere near 300 being required (unless maybe you absolutely, positively, got to kill every muthafucka on the planet).

I read (some years ago) an article writen by a U.S. govt. scientist whose job was to study such things. It doesn't take as long as most would think to come up out of a bunker and live after a nuclear war. As I recall, it's less than 6 weeks because of the way nature cleans things up. There are some particles that remain deadly in the ground for hundreds of thousands of years, but I guess these could be identified and avoided, or maybe removed somehow by the slaves that are left behind to serve The Elite. If there's nuclear winter, we are all dead.

Originally Posted by watdog

but getting the hard squeeze from the arab league. good to see. small step but right direction.

You mean the same Arab league whose members supported the terrorist take over of Libya, who gave their vast oil riches to the faggots in Paris and London. The Arab League members like Qatar and Saudi Arabia who are supporting terrorist in Libya, those Arab Leaguers are more filthy than the shit that comes out Basher Assads ass.

Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

Originally Posted by watdog

but getting the hard squeeze from the arab league. good to see. small step but right direction.

You mean the same Arab league whose members supported the terrorist take over of Libya, who gave their vast oil riches to the faggots in Paris and London. The Arab League members like Qatar and Saudi Arabia who are supporting terrorist in Libya, those Arab Leaguers are more filthy than the shit that comes out Basher Assads ass.

I haven't seen any sense from them since the Kuwaitis were throwing plates at the Iraqis in 1990.

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Violence surged in Syria on Friday, with government forces using heavy artillery to bombard several towns, while the United Nations debated a resolution on ways to end the bloodshed, intensifying the diplomatic pressure on Damascus.
According to activists, a military crackdown that ebbed when an Arab League monitoring team began its work in the country more than a month ago resumed this week with heightened force.
"In some areas, the shelling has not stopped for three days in a row," said an activist in the central city of Homs who uses the name Hadi al-Homsi. "The regime is now waging full-scale war against the people."
He described what he called a "massacre" in the district of Karm al-Zeitoun, a focal point of government military operations in the city.
Although movement between Homs neighborhoods is limited, residents participated in demonstrations after prayers, Homsi said, joining protesters elsewhere in chants hailing the "Friday of the right to self-defense."
That designation, the latest given to weekly demonstrations that have rocked Syria during its 10-month uprising against the government of President Bashar Assad, is ominous, said Rami Abdulrahman of the London-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. He said he is increasingly afraid that the country is in a state of civil war.
According to Abdulrahman, 62 people were killed across Syria on Thursday, including 33 in Homs, and at least 60 more, including 47 civilians, on Friday. It was not possible to confirm the death toll because of tight restrictions imposed on journalists, but U.N. human-rights chief Navi Pillay has said that more that 5,400 people -- including civilians, army defectors and security forces executed for refusing to shoot civilians -- have died since the uprising began in March.
Asked whether those killed in Homs were civilians or armed opposition members, Abdulrahman said that the difference between the two is becoming ever vaguer. He added that a growing number of soldiers are defecting to join a loose opposition group known as the Free Syrian Army.
The head of the Arab League observer mission, Mohammed Ahmed al-Dabi, issued a statement Friday condemning the latest surge in violence and saying that the circumstances were not conducive to the negotiations the Arab group called for in a wide-ranging proposal Sunday.
At a closed-door meeting in New York on Friday, the U.N. Security Council debated a draft resolution introduced by a group of European and Arab countries, condemning Syrian repression of protesters, endorsing the Arab League's proposal that Assad step down and calling on all countries to adopt financial and travel sanctions already introduced by the Arab League.
The developments in the Security Council underscore Syria's deepening isolation at the United Nations. In recent months, the country has been the subject of numerous resolutions in the Human Rights Council and the General Assembly condemning its conduct.
Arab League Secretary General Nabil Elaraby and Qatari Prime Minister Hamad Bin Jasim al-Thani, who heads the Arab League committee overseeing Syria policy, are expected to brief a ministerial-level Security Council meeting early next week ahead of an as-yet-unscheduled vote on the resolution.
Russia, a close ally of Syria, has warned that it will block any Security Council measure that requires Assad to step aside. But speaking to reporters after Friday's meeting, Moscow's U.N. ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, said that although the draft did not provide "a basis on which we can agree," Russia is prepared to "engage" on the resolution.
Syria's U.N. ambassador, Bashar al-Jaafari, said Western powers think Syria is "still under their hegemony, and they deal with us as if we are a former colony, that we should subjugate ourselves to their will." He added, "They are wrong, and they will be disappointed."
The unrest in Syria has been increasingly felt across the Middle East. In Egypt on Friday, about 200 Syrian protesters stormed the Syrian Embassy in Cairo, breaking windows and doors and ransacking offices. The Syrian ambassador, Yousef Ahmed, blamed Egypt's security forces for failing to prevent the attack.
Also Friday, the Free Syrian Army appeared to score a strategic victory over the Iranian government, which backs Assad, when it released a video showing a group of Iranian hostages in Syria.

Read more: Syria violence surges; U.N. concern intensifies

Syrian rebels hold seven Iranians, says senior defector

Jan 28, 2012, 8:01 GMT
Cairo - Syrian rebels are holding seven Iranians, including five military experts, the deputy chief of the dissident Syrian Free Army Colonel Malek al-Kurdi said in remarks published on Saturday.

The Iranians were arrested in the restive Syrian city of Homs, al-Kurdi told the pan-Arab newspaper Asharq Al Awsat.
According to him, five of the arrests are experts from the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and the other two are civilians.
Al-Kurdi gave no details about their whereabouts or what the rebels plan to do with them.
The Iranian state news Agency IRNA reported on Thursday that eleven pilgrims have been kidnapped in Syria.
The Syrian opposition has accused Iran, Syria's main regional ally, of aiding the regime of President Bashar al-Assad in quelling unprecedented pro-democracy protests.

Rehman Chishti MP: Syrian opposition parties need to unite otherwise Syria faces a bleak future

Rehman Chishti is the MP for Gillingham and Rainham and a former Adviser to Benazir Bhutto.

.After 10 months of brutal repression, the grip of Syria’s regime may be beginning to weaken. A few weeks back, a defecting Syrian MP told journalists that it could survive for just two more months; estimating the regime would collapse within three. Since the end of last year the Arab League has been imposing trade sanctions on Syria and European Union foreign ministers are planning new sanctions against Assad’s regime; the economy is in free-fall. Coupled with this, increasing numbers of government security forces are defecting to the opposition Free Syrian Army who appear to be gaining ground in the struggle for control of Syrian towns. For the opposition, this is a moment of immense opportunity. However, divisions within the movement could result in it slipping away and I believe there can be no long term effective change unless the opposition groups can come together. Although I accept some opposition parties have done so as apparent on one Friday demonstration dedicated to the Syrian National Council (SNC), where all demonstrators came under the umbrella of the SNC, unless a significant proportion of the opposition unite, Syria faces a bleak future.
President Assad is playing a very clever delaying tactic, for instance, he has agreed to the Arab League’s demand for monitors; however these monitors are short in number and cannot cover the whole country. The presence of the monitors has not stopped the mass killing of innocent people. Therefore it is no surprise that we saw the Saudi Arabian Government along with other GCC countries withdraw their monitors. Also President Assad, is playing to the divisions within the Arab League, with countries such as Lebanon distancing itself from any international intervention. Iraq from the outset has always been very hesitant to support international action until the very last meeting of the Arab League, and Algeria has made clear its reservations in supporting any move to request the matter be referred to the United Nations. Another point to bear in mind is that Qatar gives up the Presidency of the Arab League in March to Iraq, a country with close links to Iran, which will play into the hands of President Assad, due to Syria’s close ties to Iran.

Even though opposition parties have been banned in Syria since 1963 under emergency legislation, there are more than 30 parties and opposition groups in Syria operating mainly underground, as well as groups based outside Syria particularly in Turkey and France. Perhaps the most well known currently is the aforementioned Syrian National Council which was formed as a result of the uprising in Syria. The SNC is mainly based outside Syria with its leader Burhan Ghalioun living in Paris and already comprises a number of the opposition groups. These include the Muslim Brotherhood, the oldest party in Syria, who state that they want a pluralist system and to offer the public a programme based on Islam at elections. It also contains the Syrian Revolution General Commission, which is an organisation of committees set up during the present unrest and the Co-ordinations of the Syrian Revolution comprising of activists working in Syria, leading current demonstrations and protests against Assad. The SNC calls for the overthrow of the Assad family, wants a partial no-fly zone to create a safe area as they do not want a complete destruction of Syria's air defences, to maintain security institutions and is not opposed to foreign military intervention. They refuse to engage with Assad unless it is in order to arrange a transfer of power and in the past has rejected the Arab League sponsored compromise deal with the government. The other main opposition body in Syria is the National Co-ordination Committee for Democratic Change (NCC) composed of opposition activists in Syria tolerated by the regime. Unlike the SNC they are open to dialogue with the regime, and wish to effect change through engagement with Assad involving the Arab League. However, they oppose the internationalisation of Syrian crisis and reject foreign intervention bar the presence of the Arab League observer mission which had been allowed in as a result of deal with the Syrian government.
In addition to these two main umbrella groups, sources in the diplomatic world have informed me about a number of other opposition groups which could be considered effective and have representation in Syria. These include a number of Kurdish parties formed into different groups including The Kurdish Democratic Alliance and The Kurdish Democratic Front. Broadly these groups call for political autonomy and rights for the Kurds in Syria and have been strongly repressed by the Syrian government. The Justice and Development Party was established in London by the son of an Islamist and is active inside Syria. It broadcasts against Assad and has a well know blog which also regularly attacks the Assad regime. There is also the Syrian Communist Party which has changed its name to become the Syrian Democratic People’s Party, however, it is not particularly popular in Syria and is losing ground to the Islamists.
Finally, somewhat separate from the parties opposing the Baathist regime, is the previously mentioned Free Syrian Army based in Turkey; comprising of a group of army defectors. According to General Mustafa Ahmed al-Sheikh, who recently defected, an estimated 20,000 soldiers have changed sides. The group is endorsed by the SNC and it has, in theory, accepted the SNC’s leadership. However, in practice, it operates relatively independently mounting guerrilla operations against Assad’s rule.
There is a good precedent for groups resolving tensions and coming together to form a united opposition against a current regime. The most recent and perhaps pertinent example of this is in Libya and the National Transitional Council (NTC). The NTC was formed early on in the Libyan conflict, consisted of a number Gaddafi’s opponents and described itself as the face of the revolution. The NTC showed a commitment to a more open and democratic Libya and worked to achieved an inclusive political process reaching out to Libyans across the country. In August 2011 the NTC produced a Constitutional Declaration which established a road map for the transition of the country to a constitutional democracy. Currently the opposition in Syria is reported to be more disorganised and divided than in Libya before the fall of Gaddafi. It is suggested that the Foreign Secretary William Hague has met with representatives from both the SNC and the NCC and said it was important for the opposition groups to form a united front and asked the opposition to organise themselves and present a set of coherent policies.
Another older example of the opposition uniting is in South Africa during the 1980s and early 1990s. The international community began to put pressure on the regime to end apartheid, imposing economic trade sanctions as well as other sanctions such as banning its participation in international sporting events. The key opposition in South Africa was the African National Congress (ANC) which adopted a more conciliatory tone against the government in the late 1980s. This coupled with external pressure led the then president Frederik Willem de Klerk of the National Party to lift the ban on the ANC and other opposition political parties and organisations, paving the way for the end of apartheid. The ANC formed a tripartite alliance with the South African Communist Party and the Congress of South African Trade Unions and in the 1994 general election won by a landslide under Nelson Mandela.
I remember from my time working for Benazir Bhutto just how hard bringing the opposition together might be. Even though it is the norm for opposition parties to fight and stand against one another, in order to institute change they must come together. This was also the case in 2006 when Ms Bhutto of the Pakistan Peoples Party signed the Charter of Democracy with Nawaz Sharif leader of the Pakistan Muslim League, along with a number of other political parties outlining the steps to challenge and end the military rule of General Musharraf. This agreement eventually led to the dismissal of military rule in 2008 and the emergence of the Democratic Government in Pakistan. Ms Bhutto paid a personal sacrifice for the restoration of democracy, as did her Party and country, but you need strong leaders to bring change. Equally discussions with the military had to be had for the transition to democracy. I also recognise the important role of the international community in bringing parties together, as I accompanied Ms Bhutto to meetings with International Diplomats, and meetings with Foreign Ministers which helped facilitate this co-operation.
It is now time for the Syrian opposition to stand united even though it is diverse in range. The SNC and the NCC have already demonstrated a willingness to negotiate, with an initial attempt to charter a road-map to democracy introduced at the end of December. The deal collapsed due to pressure on Ghalioun from within the SNC who disagreed with the conditions ruling out any international military intervention. Compromises will need to be made between the various groups; the SNC should perhaps be more willing to negotiate with Assad and the NCC need to be more open to the idea of international intervention. It is probable the international community will have a bigger role to play in bringing an end to the Syrian conflict and if these two groups along with other smaller opposition parties can come together, success will be all the more likely.
I conclude my article by reference to its title, unless the opposition parties come together, in strength the future of Syria is bleak. It is bleak because security is deteriorating, and Assad is losing grip. The international community must recognise the danger and the risk of sectarian war with all its ramifications, in an area so precious and strategic.

An alleged copy of the draft resolution.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/f...-res-jan27.pdf

"The Security Council,
pp1 Recalling its presidential statement of 3 August 2011,

pp2 Recalling General Assembly resolution A/Res/66/176 of 19 December, as well as Human Rights Council resolutions S/16-1, S/17-1 and S/18-1,

pp3 Recalling the League of Arab States’ request in its decision of 22 January 2012 [UNSC document #],

pp4 Expressing grave concern at the deterioration of the situation in Syria, and profoundcon cern at the death of thousands of people and calling for an immediate end to all violence,

pp5 Welcoming the League of Arab States’ Action Plan of 2 November 2011 and its
subsequent decisions, including its decision of 22 January 2012, and supporting full
implementation with the aim of a peaceful resolution of the crisis,

pp6 Noting the deployment of the League of Arab States' observer mission, noting the
decision of the League of Arab States of 22 January 2012 to reinforce and extend the mission for one month, urging the Syrian authorities fully to cooperate with the mission through implementing all the terms of the Protocol of 19 December 2011 and the Action Plan of 2 November 2011, and recalling the Syrian authorities’ responsibility to protect the observers,

pp7 Underscoring the importance of ensuring the voluntary return to their homes in safety and security of those who have fled from violence, including Syrians who have fled to neighboring countries,

pp8 Expressing grave concern at the continued transfer of weapons into Syria which fuels the violence and calling on Member States to take necessary steps to prevent such flow of arms,

pp9 Mindful that stability in Syria is key to peace and stability in the region,

pp10 Reaffirming its strong commitment to the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Syria, emphasizing the need to resolve the current crisis in Syria peacefully, and stressing that nothing in this resolution compels States to resort to the use of force or the threat of force,

pp11 Welcoming the engagement of the Secretary-General and all diplomatic efforts aimed at addressing this situation,

1. Condemns the continued widespread and gross violations of human rights and fundamental freedoms by the Syrian authorities such as the use of force against civilians, arbitrary executions, killing and persecution of protestors and members of the media, arbitrary detention, enforced disappearances, and interference with access to medical treatment, torture, sexual violence, and ill-treatment, including against children;

2. Demands that the Syrian Government immediately put an end to all human rights violations and attacks against those exercising their rights to freedom of expression, peaceful assembly and association, protect its population, fully comply with its obligations under applicable international law and fully implement the Human Rights Council resolutions S-16/1, S-17/1, S-18/1 and the General Assembly resolution A/RES/66/176;

3. Demands that all parties in Syria, including armed groups, immediately stop all violence or reprisals, including attacks against State institutions, irrespective of where it comes from, in accordance with the League of Arab States’ initiative;

4. Recalls that all those responsible for human rights violations, including acts of violence, must be held accountable; Implementation of the League of Arab States’ decisions

5. Demands that the Syrian Government, in accordance with the Plan of Action of the League of Arab States of 2 November 2011 and its decision of 22 January 2012, without delay:

(a) cease all violence and protect its population;
(b) release all arbitrarily detained persons due to the recent incidents;
(c) withdraw all Syrian military and security forces from cities and towns, and return them to their original home barracks;
(d) guarantee the freedom of peaceful demonstrations;
(e) allow full and unhindered access and movement for all relevant League of Arab States’ institutions and Arab and international media in all parts of Syria to determine the truth about the situation on the ground and monitor the incidents taking place; and
(f) allow full and unhindered access to the League of Arab States’ observer mission;
Political roadmap

6. Calls for an inclusive Syrian-led political process conducted in an environment free from violence, fear, intimidation and extremism and aimed at effectively addressing the legitimate aspirations and concerns of Syria's people, and encourages Member States to work with the Syrian opposition and all sections of the Syrian society to contribute to this process;

7. Fully supports in this regard the League of Arab States’ initiative set out in its 22 January 2012 decision to facilitate a political transition leading to a democratic, plural political system, in which citizens are equal regardless of their affiliations or ethnicities or beliefs, including through commencing a serious political dialogue between the Syrian government and the whole spectrum of the Syrian opposition under the League of Arab States’ auspices, in accordance with the timetable set out by the League of Arab States, aimed at:
(a) formation of a national unity government;
(b) delegation by the President of Syria of his full authority to his Deputy to fully
cooperate with the national unity government in order to empower it to perform its
duties in the transitional period; and
(c) transparent and free elections under Arab and international supervision;
7bis. Encourages the League of Arab States to continue its efforts in cooperation with all Syrian stakeholders; Observer mission

8. Calls upon the Syrian authorities to cooperate fully with the League of Arab States’
observer mission, in accordance with the League of Arabs States’ Protocol of 19 December 2011, including through granting full and unhindered access and freedom of movement to the observers, facilitating the entry of technical equipments necessary for the mission, guaranteeing the mission’s rights to interview, freely or in private, any individual and guaranteeing also not to punish, harass, or retaliate against, any person who has cooperated with the mission;

9. Stresses the need for all to provide all necessary assistance to the mission;
International support and cooperation

10. Demands that the Syrian authorities cooperate fully with the Office of the High
Commissioner for Human Rights and with the Commission of Inquiry dispatched by the
Human Rights Council, including by granting it full and unimpeded access to the country;

11. Calls upon the Syrian authorities to allow full and unimpeded access for humanitarian relief personnel in order to ensure the timely delivery of humanitarian aid to persons in need of assistance;

12. Welcomes the Secretary-General’s efforts to provide support to the League of Arab States, including its observer mission, in promoting a peaceful solution to the Syrian crisis;

13. Takes note of the measures imposed by the League of Arab States on the Syrian
authorities on 27 November 2011, and encourages all States to adopt similar steps and fully to cooperate with the League of Arab States in the implementation of its measures; Follow-up

14. Requests the Secretary General to report on the implementation of this resolution, inconsultation with the League of Arab States, within 15 days after its adoption and to report every 15 days thereafter;

15. Decides to review Syria’s implementation of this resolution with 15 days and, in the event that Syria has not complied, to adopt further measures, in consultation with the League of Arab States;

16. Decides to remain seized of the matter"