Thread: Syria: Not as important as Libya.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

harryb is not too smart when it comes to distinguish between terrorists

of course, as a BNP supporter, we can't expect him to have a brain at all beyond his rethoric about ragheads

Butters,

Xbox
Satellite TV
Windows
Android
Networking

and now we have to add Middle East Affairs to the lengthy list of subjects on which you spout utter fucking nonsense?

Stick to ladyboys man, it seems you have experience in that area.

please come in my computer wisdom thread for any rebuttal and your arse ownage,

thank you,

Originally Posted by Butterfly

please come in my computer wisdom thread for any rebuttal and your arse ownage,

thank you,

Does it feature advice on how to turn on Wifi using a simple registry edit?

Got a great program for you. Gorgeous George Galloway shares all of your views. Mind you, he is being paid by an Iranian TV channel to do it.

George will suck any Arab cock for a cheque, bless him.

He got wads off Saddam as well.

Tomorrow sounds interesting:

While most of the violence reported early in the uprising involved Syrian forces firing on unarmed protesters, there are now more frequent armed clashes between military defectors and security forces. The increasing militarization of the conflict has raised fears the country is sliding toward civil war.
The head of the observatory, Rami Abdul-Rahman, said activists will try to organize a rally Wednesday of 100,000 people in Homs modeled after Cairo's Tahrir Square. Such attempts were forcefully disperse by security forces in the past.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Got a great program for you. Gorgeous George Galloway shares all of your views. Mind you, he is being paid by an Iranian TV channel to do it. George will suck any Arab cock for a cheque, bless him. He got wads off Saddam as well.

George is not shy of suing. He's currently suing the Canadian Government. I'll wager he wins. A clever man in my opinion. Not that I admire him.

harryb showing again his ignorance and his racist angle, nothing new here

Hi Harry, it gives others a chance to comment.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

harryb showing again his ignorance

His views are unfortunately more prevalent than I would like, but hey ho.

Originally Posted by OhOh

His views are unfortunately more prevalent than I would like, but hey ho.

yes, ignorance is easily shared by the mass, harryb is your typical man in the street with no clue and prefer repeating the government lies than think independently. Probably scared of what he would found out if he had to think all by himself.

Probably sums up the Western mood quite accurately:

The usual suspects beat the war drums over Syria, but the West won't be drawn in

By Michael Burleigh

Last updated at 12:23 PM on 3rd January 2012

Obviously, any rightminded person recoils from the 5,000 deaths that have occured since March 2011 in Syria. The majority of these fatalities are clearly attributable to the murderous repression which the Assad regime has visited on its opponents, whatever absurd conclusions were drawn by Arab League human rights monitors whose team was led by a Muslim Sudanese war criminal.

Unsurprisingly, various voices have called for 'the West' to 'do something' about Syria, i.e to mount the sort of NATO air interdiction of Syrian government forces which we saw in Libya. This, it is argued, would allow an oppositional safe haven to become the nucleus of a full scale anti-Assad rebellion, as happened in eastern Libya around the city of Benghazi. Its classic ink or oil spot stuff, involving the reverse engineering of counter-insurgency strategy.

Personally I don't think there is much likelihood (or appetite) for 'the West' to do 'anything' about Syria. The US administration is utterly uninterested in intervening, not least because there is no clear address for the opposition, much of which is connected to the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood. Do we want a mini jihadi state in northern Syria?

Obama is trying to draw down US forces from two overseas wars he did not start; in an election year he is not going to embark on another. The mood in the Republican Party is also deeply 'isolationist', an epithet that fails to describe the fact that most Americans want to rebuild their own economy, while focusing on parts of the world that bring them less thankless grief. The fact that for the first time since 1949 the US is exporting petrol and other fuels (thanks to shale oil and gas) speaks volumes about the potential for disengagement. It has enough natural gas for the next century.

Neither China nor Russia are prepared to give NATO a blank cheque to intervene, once again, in the Middle East. That is why a Russian fleet has been using the Syrian port of Tartus for the first time in years. Iran will also not allow their main regional ally (the Assad regime) to go down without a fight, which is why their security forces have been active in repressing the Syrian opposition.

Syria is not Libya, which was a marginal and unloved oddity under the Gaddafi regime. God only knows what will replace it. Syria is at the heart of the Arab world, once briefly conjoined with Nasser's Egypt, and before that a French mandate. What happens there can easily reverberate in Lebanon or Turkey, for Syria has both Christian and Kurdish minorities. It is also another cockpit for the ongoing regional power struggle between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Over the next few weeks we are likely to see the Turks allowing some sort of buffer zone to exist on their southern border, although I don't think the Free Syrian Army of defectors and deserters will amount to much. If it wants a re-run of Bosnia in the 1990s, the West will, stupidly, seek to protect further humanitarian enclaves within Syria itself, which will render its forces vulnerable to Syrian and Iranian terrorist attacks.

As the US has clearly stated, this is a Syrian domestic power struggle, which will be resolved by Syrians. It is not some latter day Spanish Civil War, the predictable analogy which the more hysterical left-wing interventionists always reach for.

For once, just once, after about fifteen years of moralising meddling, lets hope Britain can stick to the line that it does not have a dog in this fight, as one of the great US Secretaries of State (James Baker III) used to say.

Don't we have enough to do, repairing our bankrupted economy and an education system that fails 93% of the population? Britain's leaders should beware the extent to which 'isolationism' is abroad here too, in reaction to Blair's wars.

Testing the waters with this article methinks.

The US population is fed up with backing unprofitable wars. The UK, with the warmongers Blair and Cameron, has a bust economies to fix. Any opposition to the Syrian government is splintered.

If the population of Syria, who do not want to be ruled by the present government, move to Turkey for protection let them go and good riddance.

Get rid of the financial warfare, the "humanitarian aid" and let the Arabs run their economy.

If the population of Syria, who do not want to be ruled by the present government, move to Turkey for protection let them go and good riddance.

So this is your answer to genocidal dictatorships?

Fuck me, OhOh, you're losing it mate. That's worse than your "crusader coalition" bollocks.

The answer is dialogue, something that the terrorists have been unable to appreciate. When they have created a coherent message, and created a structure that could be adopted, then is the time to ask the population, in an observed election, to vote.

All this displaying of brute force, supported by foreigners with their own agendas, will get them nowhere and is rightly being stopped by the elected government.

Originally Posted by OhOh

The answer is dialogue, something that the terrorists have been unable to appreciate. When they have created a coherent message, and created a structure that could be adopted, then is the time to ask the population, in an observed election, to vote.

All this displaying of brute force, supported by foreigners with their own agendas, will get them nowhere and is rightly being stopped by the elected government.

The opposition have demanded changes for a long time. Assad has also promised reforms for a long time, and has consistently failed to come up with them - everything he says is for the sake of the media.

One-sided dialogue doesn't work.

When they decided to march to protest their demands, they were shot at or shelled.

So what the fuck are you banging on about?

Most of the "brute force" from the opposition is army defectors who don't want to execute innocent fellow countrymen, and realise that it's time for Assad to go, and are fighting back to ensure his troops can't execute any more Syrian citizens.

And you're answer is "If they don't like it, they should fuck off"?. They aren't tourists, or terrorists, they are a people who don't want to live under a draconian police state led by Iranian-supported Shi'as.

Sadly, I think like in Egypt, getting rid of Assad would prove a pyrrich victory, but they are right to try.

There is no point having an election with "observers", it will be as useless as the bunch of idiots doing it now. It's why the Arab parliament are suggesting it's time to pull them out.

Crusader coalition. Really has a nice ring to, gotta admit.

We have a group who demand changes, we have another group who is willing to discuss changes. The demanders do not get all they ask for of the, so far unknown changes, and start a terrorist war killing government forces along with innocent men, women and children.

I do hate having to repeat myself, but the whole point of the escalation is that Assad has never implemented any of the reforms asked of him.

Until you accept this, then any argument you might put forth is pointless.

Some supporting information:

(New York) - President Bashar al-Asad's speech on March 30, 2011, failed to commit to a specific reform agenda that would safeguard public freedoms and judicial independence and prohibit the Syrian government from encroaching on human rights, Human Rights Watch said today. The much anticipated speech was delivered before parliament.
Commentators and analysts had expected the president to announce specific reforms to increase public freedoms, including lifting the state of emergency, in place since 1963, following announcements by senior Syrian officials that his speech would "please Syrians." However President al-Asad did not offer any specifics and only declared general support for reform.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Thursday called the situation in Syria "dramatic" and expressed "enormous concern" over the deadly violence in the country.
"Unfortunately, people die there in large numbers. This arouses enormous concern from us," the Russian leader said in an interview given to Russian media in the southern resort Sochi.
Syria's President Bashar al-Assad needs to "carry out urgent reforms, come to terms with the opposition, restore peace and create a modern state," Medvedev said as quoted by the Interfax news agency.
"If he cannot do this, a sad fate awaits him, and in the end we will have to take some decision. We are watching the way the situation develops. As it changes, some of our perspectives also change."
Medvedev's remarks follow a foreign ministry statement Monday strongly criticizing the government's crackdown on demonstrations in Syria in a sign of a shift in Russia's rigid position on the conflict in the U.N. Security Council.
Russia together with China, both of which hold veto power in the U.N. Security Council, have persistently blocked a Western-drafted resolution on Syria to the irritation of other world powers.
Moscow has repeatedly stressed that it was firmly opposed to foreign interference in Syria, its ally since Soviet times, and believed its regional ally could find a political solution to its crisis.

Protests continue as Assad's promise of reforms fails to appease protestors

Item


Syria's president, Bashar Al Assad gave an address in which he offered to rewrite the constitution to permit the formation of opposition political parties by the end of the year.

Senior officials stressed that this meant Syria was on the path to "democracy" and suggested the rule of the Baath party was coming to an end.

However, Syrians across the country continued their protests, now in their fourth month. At least twenty protestors were killed last Friday, the day when protests reach their peak.

Assad also warned against the threats the economy faces should the protests continue. The IMF has already revised its growth forecast for Syria from 5.5 percent to 3 percent. Syria has been struggling to attract foreign direct investment prior to the start of the riots.

So in the interests of speeding up debate, either name me one specific reform that Assad has implemented (as opposed to "promised"), or stop banging on about it. It is as tiresome and irrelevant as your "crusader coalition" nonsense (are you Al Qaeda?).

Oh, and Saleh is still in charge of Yemen until February and is still attempting to cling onto power, so you might want to check your other facts.

Trying to fluff the argument about Syria by introducing Afghanistan and Iraq into it is a cheap way of trying to divert from the weaknesses of your arguments.

You keep claiming the "crusader coalition" are involved in Syria, but in fact you have no evidence whatsover, other than that Turkey are a NATO member.

As far as I know, NATO have not been involved in this, and I've made it quite clear on a number of occasions that common sense dictates that they do not get involved in this, because it's sectarian based and they most certainly do not want to be implicated in taking military sides in this argument.

When even Medvedev is talking about Assad in negative terms, you know that it's a hot potato that no-one outside the Arab world wants to touch.

This is a people trying to break free from a murderous, tyrannical dictatorship, exacerbated by it being divided along Sunni/Shi'a lines which, thanks to the expected intervention of Saudi and Iran is likely to escalate into not just a civil, but a sectarian war.

My hope is that it stays contained with Syria, and that regime change brings stability to that area of the Arab world, especially given that Iran's takeover of Iraq is now seemingly unstoppable.

those demonstrators are not interested in reforms, all they want is to create cahos so they can seize power

harryb you are too dumb to add this together, that's the problem

The hardcore Shi'a don't want democracy, they want theocracy. And I would never dispute that the West's best interests are served by the fall of Assad, especially given the way Iraq is going.

Were you under the illusion that Iran is a democracy? If so, you do a grave disservice to all of the Iranians who wanted to know where their last election went, and were punished severely for daring to ask.

Report: Arab observers attacked in Damascus suburbs

Jan 6, 2012, 7:54 GMT

Cairo - A team of Arab observers had to leave an area of the Damascus suburbs after random shooting by Syrian security forces, Al Arabiya television reported Friday.
The team arrived in the area Thursday afternoon. At some point, they were encircled by people in the Arbeen district. After a few hours, the team had to leave hastily, after government forces began to shoot at the crowd, the broadcaster added.
The Arab League observer mission is tasked with overseeing an end to Syria's 10-month crackdown on peaceful protesters.
It has been facing increasing local and international criticism for failing to implement the peace plan, which calls on the government to pull soldiers from residential areas, open talks with the opposition, and release all political prisoners.
In the early hours of Friday, two people were killed.
In the Damascus suburb of Zabadany, a man was killed by random gunfire by security personnel as he was trying to cross the street, the Local Coordination Committees of Syria reported.
A 36 year-old man was shot dead by a sniper while he was standing on the balcony of his house, in the central restive city of Homs.
The United Nations estimates that more than 5,000 people have been killed in the Syrian government's clampdown upon protesters demanding the ouster of President Bashar al-Assad.
Around 30 people were killed by government forces on Thursday, opposition activists said.
The head of the Arab observer mission, Sudanese General Mustafa Mohamed al-Dabi, is expected to arrive in Cairo on Saturday to take part in a meeting of the ministerial committee on Syria to discuss the mission's first report.